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Statement on the Trinity

Discussion in 'Community Announcements' started by HammerStone, Apr 10, 2014.

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  1. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Ladies and gents, you should know by now that I strive to provide a graceful and understanding community as well all grow towards a maturing faith. I hope that we communicate that we understand that people are at different levels with the work of God ongoing in all of our lives. As Paul said so strikingly in his letter to the Corinthians: "For now we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, as I am fully known" (1 Corinthians 13:12 HCSB).

    With that said, a recent subject that erupted here on Christianity Board is the subject of the trinity. This issue bubbles to the top in a number of threads, even ones tangentially related, because it is a central doctrine to a proper understanding of not only God the Father, but Jesus the Son, the Holy Spirit and the work done by our Savior Jesus Christ on the cross, as well as the power behind his resurrection from the dead.

    We try very hard to be patient, but this issue has been weighing on the hearts of our team. We've discussed it in private, and two things became very clear:
    1. We strongly desire for a graceful environment here in the community that understands people may be new to the faith or growing.
    2. We desire to earnestly defend the essential Christian doctrines that we agree and not abandon central pillars of the faith, nor do we seek to muddy the waters of belief

    The arguments used against the Trinity are recycled from the very first centuries and they usually rest upon a belief in weak conspiracy theories or gross negligence on the part of Christian scholars, translators, clergy and laypersons. These types of discussions become rather unprofitable, and the doctrines of those who don't believe in the Trinity tend to yield other heterodox doctrines.

    Where the Rubber Meets the Road:
    We will continue to be patient and evaluate things on a person-by-person basis. What it does mean, though, is that per our Statement of Faith, we are a Trinity-affirming community. We clearly believe this to be an issue of a closed-handed nature, though we do allow for growth.

    Misunderstanding and legitimate questions about the Trinity are welcome. As St. Augustine put it, "Anyone who denies the Trinity is in danger of losing his salvation, and anyone who tries to understand it is in danger of losing his mind.

    Please Note:
    *Topics and posts made against the Trinity will be evaluated by the Christianity Board team on a case by case basis. This may result in the deletion of a thread/post or the thread moved to the appropriate forum ie: Unorthodox forum.

    Nonetheless statements accusing Trinity believers of blasphemy, insults or other strongly worded statements of condemnation are not welcome here.

    We are open to folks who legitimately seek to learn and understand things, but we are not open to those who categorically deny a central tenant of the faith through willful choice.

    Any questions may be directed to the moderation team via private message (PM).

    May God's peace be in you all.


    * This paragraph was added to the SoF by Admin - Angelina on 6/09/22 due to increasing arguments relating to the Trinity on this forum.
     
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  2. Beloved212

    Beloved212 New Member

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    Thoughtful and well put, thank you!
     
  3. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    Although people may argue that the Trinity cannot be biblically proven, it can be eternally known through the Spirit of the Living God who dwells within all who believe in Jesus and live by faith according to his will and word.

    The Trinity is not a requirement for salvation. The Trinity is a result of salvation because without the indwelling Spirit, the Trinity cannot be understood!. As Augustine put it ~ "Anyone who denies the Trinity is in danger of losing his salvation, and anyone who tries to understand it is in danger of losing his mind."

    You cannot lose something you did not have in the first place and without the Holy Spirit, you cannot know or understand the Godhead....

    Shalom!
     
  4. epostle1

    epostle1 Well-Known Member

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    Good post Angelina. God doesn't expect us to understand all things, but I think He expects us to accept certain things on faith. Just because some things are above human reason does not mean it is opposed to it.

    Is your avatar an angel?
     
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  5. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    First question__ why a hammer stone are you a flint knapper?

    Second question is in your post you've stated Augustine says denial of the Trinity can cause one to lose their salvation. Is this also a non debatable subject,,,, that is salvation is based upon me having an understanding of the Trinity as do the mods controlling this site?
     
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  6. Pisteuo

    Pisteuo Well-Known Member

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    I know this is a Trinitarian site. I’ve never engaged in a debate over my oneness belief here. I’ve been blessed by many trinitarians on this forum and irl. Of course, I’m not looking for the differences in beliefs but for that which we should have in common..Christ.
     
  7. APAK

    APAK Well-Known Member

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    IMO, a simple way of knowing if a mature believer is truly saved can be answered with the correct response to this multiple choice question. There is only one correct answer according to scripture.

    What or who do we have in our heart/spirit upon salvation in the process of sanctification?
    a. The Trinity, composed of 3 distinct different persons of the same 'God.'
    b. The Spirit of the Father of Yahshua.
    c. Yahshua's spirit that is different from the Father and the Holy Spirit.
    d. The Holy Spirit, as a separate independent personality of the same 'God' that is different from the Father and the Son.

    APAK
     
  8. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't scripture say all
     
  9. APAK

    APAK Well-Known Member

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    Not really or precisely ..there is only 'one' that is the core ...even though there are relationships...not trying to be evasive here, or to answer the question too quickly either...

    APAK
     
  10. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Well I guess it's forbidden to debate as well as the possibility of losing ones salvation, due to the fact some man revered almost 2000 years ago said so.
     
  11. APAK

    APAK Well-Known Member

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    Why make a charge against me because of my input? It is not my site. If you want to debate it then fire away. Give your answer with support.

    APAK
     
  12. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Sorry you perceived my post as a charge, I don't understand any of the Trinity doctrines. I guess according to "Augustine" I'm lost
     
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  13. APAK

    APAK Well-Known Member

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    You are not lost mate.....

    It's ok mate, I looked at it differently of course. To be honest I am attempting to bait the proud Trinitarian, Modalist and those who believe Jesus only, or those that believe in the divestiture of the Spirit etc. For these to read and reread and understand scripture more acutely with the aid of prayer and the Spirit, that should form their beliefs without having to go through any mental and imaginative gymnastics. Besides there is only on answer to my question on salvation. IMO...,

    Blessings,

    APAK
     
  14. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Is this not saying I'm lost if I don't have an understanding of " Trinity" ¿¿¿
     
  15. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm? I grew with the Trinity as a Catholic. When I had been gone from Catholicism for about 14 years, God drew me to Him into a very strict Oneness Jesus Only group. I was with them and others similar for 11 years and began for the first time in my life to read the Bible. I learned good things in both places, Catholicism and Oneness, but I am gone from both now.

    Since leaving the last Oneness Jesus Only assembly in 1987, no Trinity and no Oneness Jesus Only for me as a definite place any more. What I see with most people is that they are stuck with traditions here since they really cannot explain who or what God or the Godhead is.

    The biggest problem I see in all of this is people too strongly attached to something not specifically mentioned in scripture in spite of all the arguments I have heard on all sides of this issue since 1987. As someone said already on this thread, it is not a salvation issue. I say that it should not be. When someone makes it one and presses too strongly insisting that the wrong view will make someone lose out with God then it may have become a 'salvation' issue with that someone, but not necessarily for the ones he is pressing. This is where charity should come into play... but that is another subject even though closely related...No more here from me.

    Give God the glory!
     
  16. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Which one???
     
  17. APAK

    APAK Well-Known Member

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    I guess you must know by now I am not a Trinitarian. If you want to rely on a pagan who turned into a pagan religious Christian, for the truth of our Creator then I cannot stop you. Just remember, this St. Augustine was just a man with an opinion and philosophy like anyone today. I would not place my faith in this man as no other man frankly except the man called Yahshua, the Son of man and the Son of YHWH...IMO

    Bless you,

    APAK
     
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  18. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    At first it was UPC, but I also belonged to two different other Oneness Jesus Only groups, one being Hispanic which I enjoyed because on my Spanish. The other one was an all black congregation in Vallejo CA except for me and my family. To this day my son still says that the Vallejo church is the only one in which he was sure it was God's will for us to be there. The pastor of that church agreed telling us as much. He said that he had had a serious problem with the congregation's prejudice against white folk. Our presence there helped alleviate the feeling because they actually got to know some white folk on a personal basis. It was an edifying experience for us as well.

    Give God the glory!
     
  19. APAK

    APAK Well-Known Member

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    Let me answer my own query then as I do not have any takers..
    The answer is only B.

    One scripture support is below:

    Romans 8:11 New International Version (NIV)
    And if the Spirit of him (the Father) who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of/through his Spirit who lives in you.

    The Spirit of the Father (him) the same one of Yahshua, his Son, resides in my heart. It (the Father's Spirit) molds my own spirit into his Son's spirit and his eternal life.

    Blessings,

    APAK
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
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  20. APAK

    APAK Well-Known Member

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    No....this word means a nondescript triune god, not of the Bible.

    The relationship of the Father to the Son and visa-versa should be obvious as written in scripture. The area that should provide a little more thought is the Holy Spirit. It is the personal composition of the Father, the one and only Creator God, LORD and YHWH. So again to be deliberately redundant, the Spirit, Holy Spirit and the Father are all the same and understandably differ in role (Father) and the personal composition and power ((Holy) Spirit-personal Spirit of the Father) of YHWH. There is just one and ONLY one YHWH with a/the ONLY (HOLY) Spirit and one and ONLY Son Yahshua, A son of man and immortal today, our ONLY Lord and Savio(u)r.

    Also, the Matthew scripture you presented in not the original text. Trinitarians added in the Father, Son and Spirit to promote their pagan theory of their Creator. It should have stated in 'Jesus' name' or in 'Jesus only' as also written in Acts...

    Blessings,

    APAK
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2020
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