Rocky Wiley
Active Member
There is no subsitute for study! Most people still believe a lie and they will pass that on to us if we let them. The word of God will always agree with the word of God. Man's ideas never do so.Levi said:
Strong Delusion
- Thread starter Justin Mangonel
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There is no substitue for Jesus, God and teh Holy Spirit, not even the bible can replace them. They may agree with one another, but if you knew God you would often time find He disagrees with the bible, since it is not His word,
In all His Love
Amen, MJR. It is not enough to have a Bible and a concordance. Many have both of those and more and are deceived because they do not have the Spirit of Christ which is their inner witness whereby they cry "Abba, Father" and are guided into all truth (John 16:13 KJV).mjrhealth said:
That is deception right there thinking you only need the Bible and a concordance and nothing else.
1Cor_2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
John_14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
How important is the Spirit of God? Just read the book of Acts to see how much the Church depended on the Spirit. Today, we have codified the Bible and created many different "systematic theological systems" and have no need for the Spirit of God. Our dependence is on theology, just like the Pharisees who searched the scriptures thinking that in them they had eternal life, but they would not come to Jesus who was Eternal Life.
Act_8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
Act_8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Act_10:19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
Act_11:12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:
Act_11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
Act_16:7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.
Act_21:4 And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem.
John_14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
The church or Christians will have nothing to do with apostasy or strong delusion. The verse you quoted has nothing to do with it either. You're attributing something to the Church that's prophesied for the followers of the man of sin.
This verse has nothing to do with apostasy or strong delusion.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
The word isn't 'fall away' it's 'falling away.' There's a difference and that's where many of you get confused. Falling away is the word "apostasy." Fall away is the word "parapipto or ephistemi." Big difference!
The letter is addressed to the church but the topic between verses 3b and verse 12 is all about the man of sin. We are warned to, "let no man deceive you" by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; So from verse 3b up the end of verse 12 the subject is all about the falling away, the man of sin and his followers who are caught up into "strong delusion." The subject of the passage has nothing do do with Christians again until verse 13 where Paul say's, "13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"
The word 'but' is important as it distinguishes between the followers of the man of sin and Christians and the church, which is excluded in the subject matter of verse 3b-v.12. According to Thayer's Lexicon 'but' shows distinction and is added to statements to show opposition to a preceding statement. "It opposes persons to persons or things previously mentioned. In the case of 2 Thes 2, the word but shows distinction between the followers of the man of sin (Verse 3b-12) and Christians in verse 13....
13 ¶But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
So the bottom line is you would have a difficult time making the case that apostasy or strong delusion has anything to do with the church since the text doesn't imply or support that at all.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1161&t=KJV
The text doesn't imply that at all AND NEITHER IS ThE TEXT ABOUT HERESY!. And neither does verse 10 since it speak about those who are perishing anyway....NOT THE CHURCH!
2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
People are already deceived about apostasy. They expect it to occur within the church and, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
How do you derive that from the text? Heresy isn't apostasy either but that's what the Church would like you to believe.
Justin Mangonel said:
When you refer to what Paul said about the "mystery of iniquity", that's a working that began at the beginning of this world, revealed at the end of Genesis 3 about those who follow the devil ("that old serpent") attacking the Seed of the woman. That's John's meaning of the "many antichrists" also, same idea, different descriptive term only.
The "strong delusion" is a distinct and separate event from that "mystery of iniquity" working. becaise the "mystery of iniquity" has been going on for a long time. In contrast, the strong delusion is specifically linked to the endtime deception created by that "man of sin" WHEN he appears, which is how Apostle Paul applied the concept in 2 Thess.2. So it cannot... happen UNTIL that pseudo-Christ gets here and starts doing his thing as per Scripture.
The "strong delusion" is about the deceived bowing in false worship to the coming Antichrist/false messiah with thinking he is our Lord Jesus. Deceived brethren will do that, deceived Jews will do that, deceived Muslims will do that, deceived atheists will do it. Whatever religion one belongs to, that false one will claim to be its rightful God, and will work a show of miracles to try and prove it.
That pseudo-Christ, Antichrist, dragon, another beast, vile person, man of sin, etc., has not manifested on earth yet today. So it's impossible for the "strong delusion" to already be happening. Only those aware that the coming Antichrist is coming to play God on earth will understand this.
Your reply is typical of someone who has trouble supporting their own claims.Justin Mangonel said:
Just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we are not led by the Spirit OR that we are studying our way, "through it!"
Maybe your enlightened 'Spirit' or unstudied exegesis can tell me where in the passage the church is mentioned?
Thus says The Lord of Hosts, the God of Israel, the God of all creation: Behold and take heed to the Word of The Lord your God. Thus is the guise of the wicked, clothed as a minister of light, though inwardly full of wickedness... The wolf in sheep’s raiment. Beware and take heed, for the one who seeks his own glory and riches, by great perversion of the Truth and that which is detestable in My sight, is of the evil one... His acolyte. Perversion, filth and perversion!
Woe to the serpent, the dragon, who does continually entice those who are void of the Spirit, with cleverly crafted tales... Lies within lies, sold to the ignorant as truth. For even satan will paint himself as an evil, detestable creature, so none will recognize him when he comes to lead many away from the Truth, which is absolute. Neither is there any shadow of turning, whatsoever, in My Word, nor can even one tittle be broken.
And so satan goes out to corrupt the hearts of many in preparation for the harvest, the gathering up of those who live in The Son of Salvation, so when the wide sweeping blow is carried out, he may stop many from believing the truth of who I am, lest the whole of creation turn back to The Lord their God. For there shall be many taken in that day, lowly of the lowly who stand upright before God, and every single child of innocence shall be gone from the earth. And the fathers and mothers shall mourn, and great shall be the wailing of them. For one shall be taken and the other left. Thus is the inheritance of the hard-hearted in that day. The earth shall be left in darkness, its light taken!
Woe to those who are left! Woe to those, who will not believe, you shall believe the lie that even aliens from other worlds and serpents have stole away your beloved... Wickedness! Great Blasphemy! You shall receive judgment, in full, for your wickedness, following after satan and his servant into condemnation and destruction...
Christians will not immediately need to renounce their faith in God “simply onthe basis of the reception of [this] new, unexpected information of a religious
character from extraterrestrial civilizations.” However, once the “religious
content” originating from outside the earth “has been verified” they will have
to conduct “a re-reading [of the Gospel] inclusive of the new data…”
– Vatican Astronomer, Eminent Theologian and Full Professor of Fundamental Theology
at the Pontificia Università della Santa Croce in Rome [Connected With Opus Dei], Father Giuseppe Tanzella-Nitti
EXO-VATICANA (Pt 1)
Petrus Romanus, PROJECT LUCIFER, and the Vatican's astonishing exo-theological plan for the arrival of an alien savior.
You only think you know what's coming...
http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/vaticana1.htm
Woe to any who mix poison with the Word,
For it is holy as I am holy!...
These shall suffer in the heat of The Lord’s wrath!
Woe to the serpent, the dragon, who does continually entice those who are void of the Spirit, with cleverly crafted tales... Lies within lies, sold to the ignorant as truth. For even satan will paint himself as an evil, detestable creature, so none will recognize him when he comes to lead many away from the Truth, which is absolute. Neither is there any shadow of turning, whatsoever, in My Word, nor can even one tittle be broken.
And so satan goes out to corrupt the hearts of many in preparation for the harvest, the gathering up of those who live in The Son of Salvation, so when the wide sweeping blow is carried out, he may stop many from believing the truth of who I am, lest the whole of creation turn back to The Lord their God. For there shall be many taken in that day, lowly of the lowly who stand upright before God, and every single child of innocence shall be gone from the earth. And the fathers and mothers shall mourn, and great shall be the wailing of them. For one shall be taken and the other left. Thus is the inheritance of the hard-hearted in that day. The earth shall be left in darkness, its light taken!
Woe to those who are left! Woe to those, who will not believe, you shall believe the lie that even aliens from other worlds and serpents have stole away your beloved... Wickedness! Great Blasphemy! You shall receive judgment, in full, for your wickedness, following after satan and his servant into condemnation and destruction...
Yet call on the name of The Lord in that day,
In all truth and supplications,
And you shall be delivered!
The Lord has spoken!
It shall be done...
The sun is setting on this age of men.
Behold the Morning Star, for it rises quickly,
And shall make an end and a beginning, which has no end.
For as I am, so is He I am sending....
The Alpha and Omega,
The Lord and your God, your King!...
The Holy One of Israel, Yeshua The Anointed of God...
By whom all things are and have life...
Even the Fashioner and Carpenter of all these worlds.
Amen.
Excerpt from:
Wolves in Sheep’s Clothing
Read this series about what the Vatican is talking about............ an alien Saviour!
Here's a quote from a Vatican astronomer:
Christians will not immediately need to renounce their faith in God “simply on
character from extraterrestrial civilizations.” However, once the “religious
content” originating from outside the earth “has been verified” they will have
to conduct “a re-reading [of the Gospel] inclusive of the new data…”
– Vatican Astronomer, Eminent Theologian and Full Professor of Fundamental Theology
at the Pontificia Università della Santa Croce in Rome [Connected With Opus Dei], Father Giuseppe Tanzella-Nitti
EXO-VATICANA (Pt 1)
Petrus Romanus, PROJECT LUCIFER, and the Vatican's astonishing exo-theological plan for the arrival of an alien savior.
You only think you know what's coming...
http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/vaticana1.htm
Dear V,
So, you don't see any indications of strong delusion in the world already? This is the problem with those who cannot see the forest for the trees in scripture. You look into the Bible and say that strong delusion only applies to the time that the antichrist is revealed. That strong delusion is only to make those, at that time, accept him. So are you saying 24 hours before he is revealed? Or perhaps it is a instant in time when people are making their decision for or against the antichrist. Up until that time, in your view, strong delusion does not exist. If you cannot find it or parse it out in the word it simply does not exist. It is written,
"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."
John 21:25
So, I suppose that these things, which are many btw, do not exist either. Or if they exist that are no different than what has already been written.
Also, Black sheep,
Do I have to give your biblical precedence to suggest that it is a bad idea to take a long walk on a short pier? Do I really have to convince you with chapter and verse that we are in the beginnings of strong delusion? Is not observation enough?
Do you know what the root of this type of thinking is? It is fear. Fear of falling into error so you define everything down to a point where you believe you cannot possibly make a mistake. This is what the Pharisees movement was all about after they came back from Babylon. They were going to get it right and not make the mistakes of their forefathers did ever again. Therefore, they went back to the scriptures and became very strict with their interpretations. Where did that lead them? It led them to miss their Messiah and brought them 2000 years of bad spiritual luck.
Really, do you ever stand back and think about what you are saying?
One more point. What is this thing I see on forums where Christians take handles that are normally associated with evil? Yours is "Black Sheep." Another's is "Leviathan" Why do you associate yourselves with things that are generally thought of as bad or evil? I would think that people who have the Spirit of Christ living in them would choose more positive names to discribe themselves.
Justin
So, you don't see any indications of strong delusion in the world already? This is the problem with those who cannot see the forest for the trees in scripture. You look into the Bible and say that strong delusion only applies to the time that the antichrist is revealed. That strong delusion is only to make those, at that time, accept him. So are you saying 24 hours before he is revealed? Or perhaps it is a instant in time when people are making their decision for or against the antichrist. Up until that time, in your view, strong delusion does not exist. If you cannot find it or parse it out in the word it simply does not exist. It is written,
"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."
John 21:25
So, I suppose that these things, which are many btw, do not exist either. Or if they exist that are no different than what has already been written.
Also, Black sheep,
Do I have to give your biblical precedence to suggest that it is a bad idea to take a long walk on a short pier? Do I really have to convince you with chapter and verse that we are in the beginnings of strong delusion? Is not observation enough?
Do you know what the root of this type of thinking is? It is fear. Fear of falling into error so you define everything down to a point where you believe you cannot possibly make a mistake. This is what the Pharisees movement was all about after they came back from Babylon. They were going to get it right and not make the mistakes of their forefathers did ever again. Therefore, they went back to the scriptures and became very strict with their interpretations. Where did that lead them? It led them to miss their Messiah and brought them 2000 years of bad spiritual luck.
Really, do you ever stand back and think about what you are saying?
One more point. What is this thing I see on forums where Christians take handles that are normally associated with evil? Yours is "Black Sheep." Another's is "Leviathan" Why do you associate yourselves with things that are generally thought of as bad or evil? I would think that people who have the Spirit of Christ living in them would choose more positive names to discribe themselves.
Justin
First of all Justin is the passage is clearly prophetic. Strong delusion is attributed to the followers of the man of sin and nothing else. Maybe the best question to ask is, "what is strong delusion."Justin Mangonel said:
Who say's a black sheep is bad or evil? It's just sheep of a different color!
Dear B,
The verse is prophetic in nature and given during the first century. I wonder if the spirit of antichrist is just another discripture of strong delusion.
Well, baaaah. At anyrate, in our western cutlure anyway...the black sheep of the family is usually the trouble child. However, in eastern culture black is usually good and white is considered evil.
Blessings,
Justing
The verse is prophetic in nature and given during the first century. I wonder if the spirit of antichrist is just another discripture of strong delusion.
Well, baaaah. At anyrate, in our western cutlure anyway...the black sheep of the family is usually the trouble child. However, in eastern culture black is usually good and white is considered evil.
Blessings,
Justing
Dear all,
Strong delusion denotes a particular "strength" of delusion. This does not mean that there is no delusion other than that type at that particular time.
Likewise, the Apostles talk about specific different things relative to a particular subject. However, this does not mean that the point they make is all there is to the area they speak about. For instance, speaking in other Tongues was a huge new phenomena that they were dealing with in the first century church. The Apostles spoke about different aspects of it for teaching purposes but their aim was not to give an exhaustive treatise on it for all time. However, people today want to limit the scope of that phenomena to only those specific points that are talked about in the Bible. I think that this type of myopia really skews their perspective.
Legalists think that if it cannot be found in the Bible it does not exist or if it does exist it is not of God.
Blessings,
Justin
Strong delusion denotes a particular "strength" of delusion. This does not mean that there is no delusion other than that type at that particular time.
Likewise, the Apostles talk about specific different things relative to a particular subject. However, this does not mean that the point they make is all there is to the area they speak about. For instance, speaking in other Tongues was a huge new phenomena that they were dealing with in the first century church. The Apostles spoke about different aspects of it for teaching purposes but their aim was not to give an exhaustive treatise on it for all time. However, people today want to limit the scope of that phenomena to only those specific points that are talked about in the Bible. I think that this type of myopia really skews their perspective.
Legalists think that if it cannot be found in the Bible it does not exist or if it does exist it is not of God.
Blessings,
Justin
Strong delusion by YOUR definition, or by Apostle Paul's definition according to the 2 Thess.2 Scripture? By Paul's, NO. By yours, deception only but not the "strong delusion" of 2 Thess.2 yet.
Haven't I been clear enough per what that 2 Thess.2 defines the "strong deluison" as? Surely you can read those Scriptures for yourself. They are not difficult to understand. That "man of sin", "that Wicked" which Christ comes to destroy MUST be "revealed" first like Apostle Paul says there. Why do you and others here have such a problem with that? Who are you listening to instead???
Too bad that Scripture is NOT saying what you may WANT it to say. You are just deluding yourself by trying to ignore the very event that is to cause that "strong delusion", the coming of the final Antichrist to sit in a rebuilt Jewish Temple in Jerusalem for the final generation on this earth when Jesus returns.
Dear V,
Nothing outside of what your mind can figure out in scritpure exists for you. Strong delusion does not only exist 24 hour before the antichrist is revealed. If you cannot see this then that is ok with me.
Your scriptural world is very small becuase of fear. You fear to make a mistake and do not trust our Father to correct you in time before all is lost. This is fear based theology and it is one of the reasons that God's children are not maturing in Him. Hugging the tree of the knowledge of God kills you just as hugging the tree of the knowledge of evil.
You are frustrated that I cannot "see" what you see. I see you point just fine but I have come to see it differently than you because God has helped me to really see. God's perspective is what we need. What I say does not negate what you say but encompasses it and puts it into perspective. You have reduced the Bible down to what you can see and made it to be a very small book indeed.
This is what I mean when I say there are those among us who want to follow God but cannot do so because they are full of fear. They are full of fear because they do not know and trust their Father. They hope He is out there but they are not sure. So they cling to the only thing they have that reminds them of Him...their doctrine. However, doctine is cold comfort and does not give life. I wish I could hlep you to see beyond the chains that bind you but until you start to trust God more than yourself that is almost impossible.
Blessings,
Justin
Nothing outside of what your mind can figure out in scritpure exists for you. Strong delusion does not only exist 24 hour before the antichrist is revealed. If you cannot see this then that is ok with me.
Your scriptural world is very small becuase of fear. You fear to make a mistake and do not trust our Father to correct you in time before all is lost. This is fear based theology and it is one of the reasons that God's children are not maturing in Him. Hugging the tree of the knowledge of God kills you just as hugging the tree of the knowledge of evil.
You are frustrated that I cannot "see" what you see. I see you point just fine but I have come to see it differently than you because God has helped me to really see. God's perspective is what we need. What I say does not negate what you say but encompasses it and puts it into perspective. You have reduced the Bible down to what you can see and made it to be a very small book indeed.
This is what I mean when I say there are those among us who want to follow God but cannot do so because they are full of fear. They are full of fear because they do not know and trust their Father. They hope He is out there but they are not sure. So they cling to the only thing they have that reminds them of Him...their doctrine. However, doctine is cold comfort and does not give life. I wish I could hlep you to see beyond the chains that bind you but until you start to trust God more than yourself that is almost impossible.
Blessings,
Justin
I seriously wish you would find another way to get your point across. Following the correct doctrine is the way of life.Justin Mangonel said:
You have left The Scripture, and I think it's obvious to many others here too. Instead you are serving up doctrines of men with trying to REMOVE Apostle Paul's "strong delusion" out of the place where he gave it. And you're not the first I've heard trying to do that, so don't think you're fooling me or anyone else with your man-made doctrine which is also associated with those who refuse to believe The Scriptures about the coming of a final Antichrist to sit in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem for the very end of this world prior to Christ Jesus' return.Justin Mangonel said:
Dear V,
I fully agree with Paul that strong delusion applies to the event He is talking about. You and I differ in that I apply it to other things too and you do not because you cannot find scriptural precedence to do so. I say it is obvious that we have started to enter into strong delusion but you say you cannot find any scripture to back that up. For you, if you cannot find chapter and verse, strong delusion cannot exist outside the narrowly defined point in time that the scriptures state. For me, delusion and even strong delusion can begin quite some time before that event.
Why would I want to fool you or anyone else? That would presuppose some even intent to consciously deceive another. I really do not wish to do that but rather only to point out what I believe God has shown me. I wish to do that to alert others that we have begun to enter into a time of strong delusion already so that they might beware. You may feel frustrated that my view of strong delusion is broader than yours but that does not mean that my motives are bad.
Really, what else would you call what is happening in the world right now? Weak Delusion?
Blessings,
Justin
I fully agree with Paul that strong delusion applies to the event He is talking about. You and I differ in that I apply it to other things too and you do not because you cannot find scriptural precedence to do so. I say it is obvious that we have started to enter into strong delusion but you say you cannot find any scripture to back that up. For you, if you cannot find chapter and verse, strong delusion cannot exist outside the narrowly defined point in time that the scriptures state. For me, delusion and even strong delusion can begin quite some time before that event.
Why would I want to fool you or anyone else? That would presuppose some even intent to consciously deceive another. I really do not wish to do that but rather only to point out what I believe God has shown me. I wish to do that to alert others that we have begun to enter into a time of strong delusion already so that they might beware. You may feel frustrated that my view of strong delusion is broader than yours but that does not mean that my motives are bad.
Really, what else would you call what is happening in the world right now? Weak Delusion?
Blessings,
Justin
Verse 8 say's, "And then shall that Wicked be revealed,"Justin Mangonel said:
Verse 9 say's, "[Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan..."
Verse 10 say's, "because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."
Verse 11 say's, "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:"
It surprises me that people can't derive from scripture the simple truths put forth in His Word.
The text clearly states that the man of sin is first revealed and then "strong delusion" is sent by God to them who are followers of the man of sin. People believe what they want to believe regardless of the scriptural evidence.
The reason why what you're saying about the "strong delusion" event is unsound, un-Biblical, and dangerous, is because it removes the very point of why God is bringing it upon the world, and for a very specific time.Justin Mangonel said:
It's the same basic idea like I said where some men's doctrines flat refuse... to believe there exists a singular coming Antichrist entity, denying the two "antichrist" usages by Apostle John. Instead, they only choose to believe the "many antichrists" term, and not John's "as ye have heard that antichrist shall come" (1 John 2:18).
The deceptions away from God's Word among many today is bad enough, God's people do not need any more confusion of His Word than the many false prophets out there are already.
Once John's idea of a singular coming antichrist, and Paul's warning of the false one coming of 2 Thess.2 to sit in a temple proclaiming he is God, is rightly understood per Scripture, then those teachings of men's doctrines that deny the coming of a singular antichrist become revealed as teachings of the devil designed to confuse God's people. Why would you want to be a part of that with confusing what major endtime event Paul's "strong delusion" is about??? It puts you in the same boat as those men when you do that.
Yes, and I haven't yet determined if Justin is really sincere or not with why he is trying to claim Paul's "strong delusion" event is for something else other than what Paul was warning there in 2 Thess.2. My making a distinction here about it should be enough for those who are sincere to think about what dangers he's leading into.BLACK SHEEP said:
There's a special point Paul is making in 2 Thess.2 about the idea of the man of sin being 'revealed'.
II Th 2:3
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
(KJV)
In the 3-4 verses Paul defines the conditions, or events, that must first happen, 1) the falling away, and 2) man of sin revealed... sitting in the temple. His 4th verse explanation of the false one sitting in the temple proclaiming himself as God and working great signs and wonders is part of that first 'revealed' idea.
But who... would he be revealed to at that point? Definitely not to those who fall away and bow to him as God. This means Paul is showing us, Christ's Body, that we are to be able to recognize that false one for who he is when he does those things. For Christ's elect, they are given to know more about that false one's identity and don't have to wait for that revealing.
II Th 2:8
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
(KJV)
This second idea of the Wicked one being revealed is different. This revealing occurs with Christ's coming to destroy him. At this point, even the deceived... will understand who that Wicked is who they mistakenly bowed in false worship to, and will be in shame because of The True Christ appearing.
Sorry, but that includes you, since you're the one wanting to rearrange what event Paul's "strong delusion" idea is for against the actual written Scripture.Justin Mangonel said:
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