Suicide: A guaranteed direct ticket to hell?

[mjrhealth]

People who attempt suicide are desperate, not arrogant or rebellious. Can't see God damning anyone in such a state of despair. It is never the answer - a permenant solution to a temporary problem is the perfect description, but God loves those who are hurting

Amen

Was there for couple of years, it seems sometimes you need to be able to see through the eyes of those in distress. Know what its like, Not a fun place to be.

 

[Pisteuo]

It's a sin. Obviously on the surface it seems unpardonable. (no repentance) I've always questioned this as locally we have seen a spike in suicide rates among teens. Tragic. I don't know the answer and have seen pastors perplexed with the question as well.

 

[mjrhealth]

It's a sin. Obviously on the surface it seems unpardonable. (no repentance) I've always questioned this as locally we have seen a spike in suicide rates among teens. Tragic. I don't know the answer and have seen pastors perplexed with the question as well.

And who branded it a sin, us or God?? If we had teh choice, breathing would be a sin, because it inhales toxic air into your lungs and thats bad for you... Aggghhhh. Can we please leave teh judgement to God, before we condemn all mankind to death as we seem to continually do.

 

[Wrigley]

It's a sin. Obviously on the surface it seems unpardonable. (no repentance) I've always questioned this as locally we have seen a spike in suicide rates among teens. Tragic. I don't know the answer and have seen pastors perplexed with the question as well.

What sin is it? And why on the surface is it unpardonable with no repentance?
What is the unpardonable sin as you understand it.

What is repentance to you?

Please know I am not going at you or trying to trip you up.
Just trying to understand where you are coming from.

 

[Pisteuo]

It is the taking of a life physically. As I understand it, that is a sin. Repentance would be restoration here and I don't see how that happens after suicide. I absolutely am not saying it can't. And all this is the opinion of one who doesn't claim to understand. I am not making an attempt at judging others who thought this to be the only answer.

 

[Helen]

ha i have always felt this, too, although Scripture seems to specifically condemn Judas. Seems like he repented to me, even though i guess he did commit suicide

Unfortunately someone had to do it.....God found it in the heart of Judas.
We know that he was a Zealot and probably upset the Jesus wasn't getting rid of the Roman's or militant. But, he was one of the chosen.
As you said...he tried to return the blood money and threw it when they wouldn't take it back. He was obviously in so much anguish , just like our two friends...
he hung himself...probably like my friends , believing that there was no place of repentance ...thinking- " I am going to hell, living an waiting for it feels like hell, so I might as well get there quicker. "
And lets not forget, the verse that says .."..and Satan entered into him..."
Just think , Satan himself 'in him'!!!!

People can judge, but how do we know how WE would hold up?

 

[amadeus]

I recall vividly the son of friend. At about 30 years old he committed suicide. He was always a wonderful young man, but women took advantage of him and discouraged him.

He figured out a way to put a plastic bag over his head and secure his wrists in a way with plastic ties so that he was unable to release them when his body tried to save itself from oxygen starvation. As he was dying he was fighting, but his plan was too clever for him save himself.

He had probably minutes to contemplate his life and his death and his God. He did know God while I knew him. He certainly had time to repent before death even though he could not stop the process of death.

 

[Helen]

And who branded it a sin, us or God??
If we had teh choice, breathing would be a sin, because it inhales toxic air into your lungs and thats bad for you... Aggghhhh.
Can we please leave teh judgement to God, before we condemn all mankind to death as we seem to continually do.

Yes I agree....we can sit in judgement and feel pious...yet we have probably not been tested as these people have been tested!!
The words " Hell and sin" are flung around so quickly!!
As for being unpardonable.
Matt 12 ""Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."

One would think that some people would take care in dow talking deriding, and saying tongues and the rest of the gifts OF THE SPIRIT...are of the devil...those are the ones who need to take care!! According to the scriptures.

 

[pia]

I am not making an attempt at judging others who thought this to be the only answer.

Hi, neither am I.......I can share a little of what I experienced........Before I found Jesus that night, I had come out of my body into a total 100% pitch black place, I felt like myself, thought like myself, but couldn't see myself.........Didn't know if I was standing on anything, and it was silent as the grave.....
After He saved me, later on I asked Him why on earth I ended up in an awful place like that, I didn't think I had been that bad a person...........I will never forget what He said...:" You asked to die ! And THAT is what it is to die ! " I then suddenly recalled that I had in fact done that just prior to 'coming out' of my body.
So it is true......'Never say die!

 

[Pisteuo]

Well I certainly don't claim to know and should have held my peace about it. My apologies to anyone who may have dealt first hand with this tragedy in their lives and felt that I was passing judgement.

 

[Stranger]

Repentance and remission of sins are not the same.

Jesus Christ paying for sin and forgiving our sins are not the same.

Moses repented of striking the rock the 2nd time, and asked God to let him enter the land. But God would not. God did not allow him to repent. Did Moses go to Heaven? Of course he did. But God would not forgive Moses and thus the judgement of not being allowed into the promised land.

The Israelites who came out of Egypt were those who already put the blood on the door posts of their homes. They were believers. Their destiny was Heaven. Yet they fell into unbelief and refused to enter the land. God said fine, then you won't enter...but your children will. Then they all decided to repent and go up and try and take the land. But God would not allow it. Thus they all died in the wilderness. Did they go to Heaven. Of course they did. They were already believers. They were already under the blood. But, repentance and forgiveness comes from God. He may not want to. Thus you receive judgement in this life for whatever it is that God refuses to allow the repentance.

If one is a believer and takes his own life, it means he as a believer has gone to be with the Lord. Believers can get overwhelmed in this world also. The key is...are you a believer? As to Judas, no. I do not see him as a believer at anytime. I think he was always there for the very reason that finally pushed him into selling our Lord for money. It was always in his heart. Suicide doesn't make one a believer or an unbeliever.

Stranger

 

[pia]

Well I certainly don't claim to know and should have held my peace about it. My apologies to anyone who may have dealt first hand with this tragedy in their lives and felt that I was passing judgement.

No, no. You misunderstand....You didn't come across that way, and it IS surely a difficult subject.......a dear friend had a young son who managed to commit suicide....She later told me that laying on her bed after the funeral, she saw the Heaven open and her son was there saying to her:" Mum, they won't let me in....Someone has to ask." She claims she immediate asked in a few words the best she knew how, and then she saw a different part of that Heaven open, and he smiled at her, and up he went...
So, yeah........we can't imagine all the ways He has to save a person......But for sure there are places we won't want to go !

 

[pia]

Suicide doesn't make one a believer or an unbeliever.

Turned my entire life upside down......Everything I had thought I knew.......All wrong ! Made a believer of me in such a way, that no one on earth or beyond, can take it away from me again....

 

[Armadillo]

As to Judas, no. I do not see him as a believer at anytime. I think he was always there for the very reason that finally pushed him into selling our Lord for money. It was always in his heart.

Yes, Judas hung himself on guilt and condemnation but he also cast out devils and still followed Jesus even after Jesus said whoever eats my flesh, drinks my blood will have eternal life, Jesus' thousands of followers left Him after He said that but Judas stayed, and when the disciples asked who would betray Jesus, none of the disciples knew that it would be him.

Judas was a treasurer, not a zealot and even after Judas betrayed Jesus, right after the kiss, Jesus called Judas "friend".

I think pointing out sins in other people and being obsessed with sin can cause you to hang yourself (not literally) on guilt and condemnation and the prophecy needed to be fulfilled in Zechariah 11. Did Judas commit the unpardonable sin?

John 13:29, Since Judas had charge of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the festival, or to give something to the poor.

Judas didn't want the money from the Pharisees in exchange for Jesus' death, he wanted the Pharisees to sit down with Jesus and work things out because he figured if they got to know Jesus like he did, well. He didn't know they would hate and reject Jesus. So, why did Judas want the money? Being a treasurer, he had a mentality about money and what to do with it.

John 12:4-5, But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.

Mary's perfume was worth a lot of money and it was poured on Jesus' feet. Judas saw this as a big waste of money.

John 13:30, As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.

A spiritual description of what Judas walked out of, he walked out on the light of the world.

 

[Helen]

Moses repented of striking the rock the 2nd time, and asked God to let him enter the land. But God would not. God did not allow him to repent. Did Moses go to Heaven? Of course he did. But God would not forgive Moses and thus the judgement of not being allowed into the promised land.

Not on subject as much...but I noticed you mention this.
An old man once told me why God could not ( not would not) allow Moses to into the Land.
Jesus could not be smitten twice , and we know the He was The Rock.
1 Cor 10, "...And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."
God smote Christ on the cross once and for all.
Moses being a prophet should have known that..but e know in anger at the people he struck twice!
That answered for me the question that I had, about why God kept him out of the Land. Personally I don't believe God ever intended for Moses to enter.
God gave the Law to Moses...but the Land represents Promise.
We enter in to the spiritual land by grace through faith, not by law.
I liked that .

 

[Helen]

@Armadillo ...Excellent post..thank you..you laid it out so clearly! I loved the insight. Yay!

 

[Job]

You say blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is to attribute the works of the Holy Spirit to demons and therefore unforgivable and I am saying the only unforgivable sin is to reject Jesus.

Mark 3
28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter;
29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”—
30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.”


Luke 12
10 “And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven.



Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and rejecting Jesus are not the same. One is forgivable, the other is not. Do you see what I'm saying?

o

 

[Helen]

@Job Yes Amen..good one. Not sure how anyone could see them as one and the same.
Jesus clearly said that anything said/done against Him could be forgiven, but against the Holy Spirit could not be.

 

[Armadillo]

Aren't we all given the gift of faith? We credit ourselves for choosing Him but He chose us and we can only love God because He loved us first and we choose God because He chose us first.

But, we can choose not to accept the gift, right?

Acts 7:51, "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit."

Hebrews 6:4-6, It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit, heard the Good News but chose to not really believe it and didn't really accept it by faith. They reject the work of the Cross choosing to believe it's not really enough. So, they put Jesus back on the Cross believing salvation comes not by Jesus but by themselves (works) and therefore, blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Believers can't blaspheme the Holy Spirit because they haven't rejected the call, they are being led and are sealed.

 

[Job]

Believers can't blaspheme the Holy Spirit because they haven't rejected the call, they are being led and are sealed.

Not all believers are sealed.


Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’



It's obvious the people in that passage are believers. Why else would they do anything in Jesus name if they weren't.

For many are called but few are chosen. It is the chosen who are sealed.

o