Suicide: A guaranteed direct ticket to hell?

[Wrigley]

I didn't know you thought you were so important. just what is your record for how fast you can take offence? no not you in particular, and in the case of "if you" then why not you if the shoe fits, so then wear it, otherwise why would you take offence unless you seek reason to exercise some argumentative horse dump.

I was just seeking clarification.
Nope I don't consider myself important.

 

[Stranger]

You're ignoring the obvious.

Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.


Do you not understand what Jesus is saying here? Not all believers go to heaven. Not all those who believe are sealed.

You need to stop being offended and listen to what the Word is saying.

o

Did Jesus really say that though? Did He say not all believers go to heaven? Did He say not all those who believe are sealed?

How would you reconcile (Matt. 7:21) to (Rom. 8:35-39)?

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

I didn't know you thought you were so important. just what is your record for how fast you can take offence? no not you in particular, and in the case of "if you" then why not you if the shoe fits, so then wear it, otherwise why would you take offence unless you seek reason to exercise some argumentative horse dump.

Oh my goodness!

I stand in defense of Wrigley.
Did you notice he comes from a different country?

How fast can YOU take offense!
If you can't even understand persons FROM A DIFFERENT COUNTRY,
HOW could you ever even HOPE to understand how people spoke over 2,000 years ago???

Be nice.

 

[GodsGrace]

Did Jesus really say that though? Did He say not all believers go to heaven? Did He say not all those who believe are sealed?

How would you reconcile (Matt. 7:21) to (Rom. 8:35-39)?

Stranger

Hi Stranger,

WHERE did JESUS say all who believe are sealed?
I don't remember Jesus ever saying this.

 

[Job]

Did Jesus really say that though? Did He say not all believers go to heaven? Did He say not all those who believe are sealed?

Yes, He did say those things. Not in those exact words, but that passage is crystal clear. Not all believers get into the kingdom of heaven, which basically means not all believers are sealed.


Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

How would you reconcile (Matt. 7:21) to (Rom. 8:35-39)?

These passages don't contradict one another. Romans is basically saying true believers cannot be snatched from the hand of the Lord. Matthew is saying, although they believed, the Lord never knew them.

See the difference?


One can't be sealed onto the day of Redemption is the Lord does not know them.


o
o

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, He did say those things. Not in those exact words, but that passage is crystal clear. Not all believers get into the kingdom of heaven, which basically means not all believers are sealed.


Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’






These passages don't contradict one another. Romans is basically saying true believers cannot be snatched from the hand of the Lord. Matthew is saying, although they believed, the Lord never knew them.

See the difference?


One can't be sealed onto the day of Redemption is the Lord does not know them.


o
o

Ok
I'll try you...
I don't see the difference.

WHERE did Jesus say all believers are sealed??

And if I'm a believer, why wouldn't I get into heaven?

 

[Stranger]

Hi Stranger,

WHERE did JESUS say all who believe are sealed?
I don't remember Jesus ever saying this.

I thought Jesus said it in (John 6:27). But He spoke of Himself.

But we have the statement from Paul, (2Cor. 1:21-22) " Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts."

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Yes, He did say those things. Not in those exact words, but that passage is crystal clear. Not all believers get into the kingdom of heaven, which basically means not all believers are sealed.


Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’






These passages don't contradict one another. Romans is basically saying true believers cannot be snatched from the hand of the Lord. Matthew is saying, although they believed, the Lord never knew them.

See the difference?


One can't be sealed onto the day of Redemption is the Lord does not know them.

o
o

But isn't the Lord saying not all are believers. He is not saying there are some believers that are not going to Heaven and are not sealed. In other words, He is saying you call me Lord, but you were never a believer. That is very different from what you are saying when you say some believers are not going to Heaven and are not sealed.

When the Lord said He never knew them, that means they never believed.

Stranger

 

[DPMartin]

Oh my goodness!

I stand in defense of Wrigley.
Did you notice he comes from a different country?

How fast can YOU take offense!
If you can't even understand persons FROM A DIFFERENT COUNTRY,
HOW could you ever even HOPE to understand how people spoke over 2,000 years ago???

Be nice.

are you the conversation police in a debate section of a web site? that's a little ironic isn't it? what are you the web site mommy? I'm not required to meat your approval, and I could care less about who's side you are on. I guess you want to be that important.

in case you don't know I've done this once before more than once, and you can bet the odds were in the favor of the individual was looking for a chance to make it about them, as you are doing, which detracts from the subject at hand as you are doing. so in chess one makes a move to prevent a move on the others part whether that person was going to or not, so either Wrigley had no intent to go there or he found a face saving way to leave it. either way the individual didn't make it about himself as you are trying to make it about.

besides since when is it protocol to make people feel good responces in a debate?

 

[GodsGrace]

are you the conversation police in a debate section of a web site? that's a little ironic isn't it? what are you the web site mommy? I'm not required to meat your approval, and I could care less about who's side you are on. I guess you want to be that important.

in case you don't know I've done this once before more than once, and you can bet the odds were in the favor of the individual was looking for a chance to make it about them, as you are doing, which detracts from the subject at hand as you are doing. so in chess one makes a move to prevent a move on the others part whether that person was going to or not, so either Wrigley had no intent to go there or he found a face saving way to leave it. either way the individual didn't make it about himself as you are trying to make it about.

besides since when is it protocol to make people feel good responces in a debate?

1. I'm allowed to notice when a Christian isn't acting Chistianly.
Mathew 18:16-18

2. It's meet, not meat. I don't have a side, yet - but it'll come up eventually.

3. You think everyone wants to be important, of course you realize that this means YOU want to be important.

4. I know the individual very well and he was not looking for anything except to clarify something that was worded rather badly.

Also, you should Always err on the side of the positive, not the negative.

5. You are detracting by your very post.

6. I think it's nice to make people feel good.
Don't you?

 

[GodsGrace]

I thought Jesus said it in (John 6:27). But He spoke of Himself.

But we have the statement from Paul, (2Cor. 1:21-22) " Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts."

Stranger

There's much misunderstanding about the sealing in the Holy Spirit.
It makes it sound as if we STAY sealed NO MATTER WHAT.

This cannot be if we're to believe the rest of scripture and what Jesus taught.

I knew Jesus never said this because He never taught it.

If you do a quick study on what "ernest" means, you'll have a better idea of what it means to be sealed.

I'll post this if you wish, (not from Google) but not today...

 

[Dcopymope]

Ok
I'll try you...
I don't see the difference.

WHERE did Jesus say all believers are sealed??

And if I'm a believer, why wouldn't I get into heaven?

Well, here is one reason:

(James 2:17-19) "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. {18} Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. {19} Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

So, if you are to use the term "believer" as loosely as you and others on here do, then Devils should also be saved just by merit of them being "believers", should they not?

 

[Wrigley]

are you the conversation police in a debate section of a web site? that's a little ironic isn't it? what are you the web site mommy? I'm not required to meat your approval, and I could care less about who's side you are on. I guess you want to be that important.

in case you don't know I've done this once before more than once, and you can bet the odds were in the favor of the individual was looking for a chance to make it about them, as you are doing, which detracts from the subject at hand as you are doing. so in chess one makes a move to prevent a move on the others part whether that person was going to or not, so either Wrigley had no intent to go there or he found a face saving way to leave it. either way the individual didn't make it about himself as you are trying to make it about.

besides since when is it protocol to make people feel good responces in a debate?

Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

It seems to me that it is you who has taken offence and boy have you so.
I can't see you responding to my response to you that I was just asking for clarification after you came back at me accusing me of being easily offended and if the shoe fits wear it.

I was seeking clarification as to whether you thought that what I posted was what I believed, that's all.

All you needed to do was say "yes or no" then I could have responsed cordially as well.

Please know that I am not here to fight, I am here to talk, spend time with you all. I'm not here to prove myself or disprove anyone else.

Just here to spend time with fellow believers.

 

[DPMartin]

1. I'm allowed to notice when a Christian isn't acting Chistianly.
Mathew 18:16-18

2. It's meet, not meat. I don't have a side, yet - but it'll come up eventually.

3. You think everyone wants to be important, of course you realize that this means YOU want to be important.

4. I know the individual very well and he was not looking for anything except to clarify something that was worded rather badly.

Also, you should Always err on the side of the positive, not the negative.

5. You are detracting by your very post.

6. I think it's nice to make people feel good.
Don't you?

that would be according to your judgement of what others should be doing correct? and now your trying to make this about me correct? hey, I'm a no good so and so and I like it, and will not change to your liking for any reason, if you don't like that, so what. in this case I don't have the time or inclination to win some type of argument with you, don't care, you can have the last word it doesn't change a thing does it? other than you get blow off some more of your opinion of others because as most who go by their own judgement seek to make the world around them according to their own image of it. have fun you may continue to try and make every one here fit your mold of a Christian. which how the religious justify themselves and keep the conversation away from the Lord and on each other and themselves.

 

[Job]

But isn't the Lord saying not all are believers. He is not saying there are some believers that are not going to Heaven and are not sealed. In other words, He is saying you call me Lord, but you were never a believer. That is very different from what you are saying when you say some believers are not going to Heaven and are not sealed.

When the Lord said He never knew them, that means they never believed.

Stranger

No.

Look closely.

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Jesus is clearly stating that even though they believe in Him, unless they're doing the will of the Father, their belief is in vain.

Here's proof of their belief in Jesus.

22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’

Why would anyone do anything in the name of Jesus if they didn't believe? The people in that verse are standing before Christ fully expecting to be let into the Kingdom of heaven. When they are denied entrance they remind Jesus of all the wonderful works they accomplished in His name.

Jesus simply replies, "I never knew you".

His failure to notice them is because they were not doing the will of the Father.

Anybody can believe in God, it doesn't mean they automatically get into heaven because of that belief. As was stated here already, "Even the demons believe, and tremble".


o

 

[Helen]

Satan can not be redeemed. why, you say. because he has seen the revelation of the Most High and has denied Him. hence a blasphemy that is unforgiveable. you refuse to acknowledge the Most High in His Presence you've got a supper big problem. how did Jesus say it? that Satan fell out of heaven like a bolt of lightening.

Does this apply to- Rom 14 "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God."

 

[Stranger]

There's much misunderstanding about the sealing in the Holy Spirit.
It makes it sound as if we STAY sealed NO MATTER WHAT.

This cannot be if we're to believe the rest of scripture and what Jesus taught.

I knew Jesus never said this because He never taught it.

If you do a quick study on what "ernest" means, you'll have a better idea of what it means to be sealed.

I'll post this if you wish, (not from Google) but not today...

Well, that is the point of being 'sealed'...isn't it?

Jesus may not have taught the 'sealing' of the Holy Spirit. That doesn't mean it is not a true event and doctrine. The revelation the risen Jesus Christ gave to the apostle Paul was that which had not been known before. (Eph. 3:1-5) "...If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery;...Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men...."

In other words, Paul did not speak the same things that Jesus Christ spoke during His earthly ministry. The majority of what Jesus Christ said was to Israel concerning the Kingdom. (Rom. 15:8) "Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:" Jesus did not speak of the Church until (Matt. 16:18), and even there it was yet a future building.

To Paul was given the doctrine of grace, by which the Church would be formed and orgainized.

Stranger

 

[Job]

Ok
I'll try you...
I don't see the difference.

WHERE did Jesus say all believers are sealed??

And if I'm a believer, why wouldn't I get into heaven?

See post #75.

If you need more, just let me know.

o

 

[Stranger]

No.

Look closely.

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Jesus is clearly stating that even though they believe in Him, unless they're doing the will of the Father, their belief is in vain.

Here's proof of their belief in Jesus.

22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’

Why would anyone do anything in the name of Jesus if they didn't believe? The people in that verse are standing before Christ fully expecting to be let into the Kingdom of heaven. When they are denied entrance they remind Jesus of all the wonderful works they accomplished in His name.

Jesus simply replies, "I never knew you".

His failure to notice them is because they were not doing the will of the Father.

Anybody can believe in God, it doesn't mean they automatically get into heaven because of that belief. As was stated here already, "Even the demons believe, and tremble".

But Jesus is not saying what you are saying He is saying. Yes, He said many who call Him Lord will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. And only those who do the will of the Father in Heaven will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. He hasn't said anything about 'belief'. Nothing. This verse is all about works. So how can you suddenly say this speaks to believers?

You ask why are there so many religious people in the Church today who are not believers? Well, why are there so many preachers and priests who are not believers?...It feeds their religious desires. It looks good among the community. It's a good job for some.

And, the Kingdom of Heaven, is not Heaven. It is the Kingdom of Heaven on earth as promised to Abraham.

I disagree. No one could believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Saviour unless God gave it to them to believe. (Matt. 16:17)

So, concerning this verse, (Matt. 7:21), three things really come into play. Are these believers? No. And is He talking about salvation by faith in Christ? No. And what is the Kingdom of Heaven? It is the Kingdom promised to Isael to come on the Earth.

Demons are not offered salvation whether they believe or not. Of course they believe.

Stranger




o

 

[Job]

But Jesus is not saying what you are saying He is saying. Yes, He said many who call Him Lord will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. And only those who do the will of the Father in Heaven will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. He hasn't said anything about 'belief'. Nothing. This verse is all about works. So how can you suddenly say this speaks to believers?

You ask why are there so many religious people in the Church today who are not believers? Well, why are there so many preachers and priests who are not believers?...It feeds their religious desires. It looks good among the community. It's a good job for some.

And, the Kingdom of Heaven, is not Heaven. It is the Kingdom of Heaven on earth as promised to Abraham.

I disagree. No one could believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Saviour unless God gave it to them to believe. (Matt. 16:17)

So, concerning this verse, (Matt. 7:21), three things really come into play. Are these believers? No. And is He talking about salvation by faith in Christ? No. And what is the Kingdom of Heaven? It is the Kingdom promised to Isael to come on the Earth.

Demons are not offered salvation whether they believe or not. Of course they believe.

Stranger




o

Ok.

o