Surviving Roman Catholic Heresies in Protestantism

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Make up your mind did Jesus carry the cross or did Simon?

Did he march in triumph to his death? Evidence please.
The garden of gesthemeny shows that he knew what the fear of death was.
His behaviour on the cross shows that he suffered as any man would who was crucified.
His triumph was only when he rose again.

<<Make up your mind did Jesus carry the cross or did Simon?>>

Both did; Jesus carried it through the door to outside the door. Simon carried it "further on after" Jesus.

<<Did he march in triumph to his death? Evidence please.>>

His triumphant march to Golgotha is the evidence-- supported by many OT Scriptures; in fact by "ALL the Scriptures CONCERNING THE CHRIST _HOW_ THAT HE HAD TO SUFFER" -- had to SUFFER VICTORIOUSLY.

<<The garden of gesthemeny shows that he knew what the fear of death was.>>

Most certainly.

<<His behaviour on the cross shows that he suffered as any man would who was crucified.>>

Most certainly NOT!

<<His triumph was only when he rose again.>>

Why would I even try answer you...

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

the treatments i mentioned are extra-biblical, by etymologists, etc

Thanks for admitting a conspicuously apparent meaningless speculation.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Nowhere does Scripture forbid Scripture in art form. It is a tradition of men.

Shucks, that was easy. Thanks!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Question: Why do Catholics use crucifixes? Why do you keep Jesus on the cross when He is risen?

Short answer: because we are saved by Jesus, and not by a cross.

Shucks, can it get easier? Thanks man! <Why do you keep Jesus on the cross when He is risen?> Amazing!
<Short answer: because we are saved by Jesus, and not by a cross.> Then why do you keep wearing a cross? Amazing!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Catholics no more "keep Jesus on the cross" than all Christians "keep Jesus an infant" when they display statues/photos of a baby Jesus in a manger at Christmastime.

No matter who does this disdains God's Prohibition in principle committing defiant SIN. It is unpardonably defiant SIN because it is so totally unnecessary, senseless, unprovoked, and, unacknowledged or REPENTED. Adam and Eve had better reason to disobey than <All Christians> have to <<display statues/photos of a baby Jesus in a manger at Christmastime>> or <keep Jesus on the cross> hanged around their neck and wrist and ankle and tummy wherever BUT MOST hideously in FRAUDULENT and FALSE DOCTRINE AND ADULTERATED SCRIPTURE.

 

[Windmillcharge]

<<Make up your mind did Jesus carry the cross or did Simon?>>

Both did; Jesus carried it through the door to outside the door. Simon carried it "further on after" Jesus.

<<Did he march in triumph to his death? Evidence please.>>

His triumphant march to Golgotha is the evidence-- supported by many OT Scriptures; in fact by "ALL the Scriptures CONCERNING THE CHRIST _HOW_ THAT HE HAD TO SUFFER" -- had to SUFFER VICTORIOUSLY.

<<The garden of gesthemeny shows that he knew what the fear of death was.>>

Most certainly.

<<His behaviour on the cross shows that he suffered as any man would who was crucified.>>

Most certainly NOT!

<<His triumph was only when he rose again.>>

Why would I even try answer you...

"Both did; Jesus carried it through the door to outside the door. Simon carried it "further on after" Jesus." Evidence please.

""ALL the Scriptures CONCERNING THE CHRIST _HOW_ THAT HE HAD TO SUFFER" -- had to SUFFER VICTORIOUSLY. "
That is not evidence that in his suffering or in his progress he was triumphant, only that through his suffering he was triumphant.

"<<His behaviour on the cross shows that he suffered as any man would who was crucified.>>
Most certainly NOT!"
Evidence for this statement please.
We know Jesus was fully human, he ate, drank, got tierd, suffered emotions and durring his trial he was brutaly beaten, flogged and crucified.
While he hung on the cross the phatases tormented him imitating the restless movement of his head, wagging their heads from side to side.
Like any man he experienced thirst and he died.

Jesus suffered.

 

[Windmillcharge]

I'm not talking about <'crucifixes' in RC churches>; I'm talking about Scripture about Jesus' cross on Golgotha; I'm talking Scripture FACT, not fictitious 'Windmillcharge' <charges>. you're talking about.

Then you need to say what you are talking about.
You wrote empty crosses in catholic churches.
What are people reading that to understand by that.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

"Both did; Jesus carried it through the door to outside the door. Simon carried it "further on after" Jesus." Evidence please.

What evidence do you want? Scripture I did give? Well then, here it is again:

John 19:17
καὶ βαστάζων ἑαυτῷ τὸν σταυρὸν ἐξῆλθεν εἰς τὸν
And he bearing his cross went forth [out of the building] unto

λεγόμενον Κρανίου τόπον, ὃ (ὃς) λέγεται Ἑβραϊστὶ Γολγοθᾶ,
a place called of a skull which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha.
[Levitikus 23:22,10c]

Mark 15:21
καὶ ἀγγαρεύουσιν παράγοντά … ἐρχόμενον ἀπ’ ἀγροῦ, …
And they compelled one Simon a Cyrenian, coming from the land,

τινα Σίμωνα Κυρηναῖον … τὸν πατέρα Ἀλεξάνδρου καὶ Ῥούφου …
the father of Alexander and Rufus,

ἵνα ἄρῃ τὸν σταυρὸν αὐτοῦ.
purposed to / THAT he might bear his cross.

Matthew 27:32
Ἐξερχόμενοι δὲ εὗρον ἄνθρωπον Κυρηναῖον, ὀνόματι
And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene,

Σίμωνα· τοῦτον ἠγγάρευσαν ἵνα ἄρῃ τὸν σταυρὸν αὐτοῦ.
Simon by name: him they sent /directed, to bear his cross.

Luke 23:26
Καὶ ὡς ἀπήγαγον αὐτόν, ἐπιλαβόμενοι Σίμωνά τινα Κυρηναῖον
And as / while they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian,

ἐρχόμενον ἀπ’ ἀγροῦ, ἐπέθηκαν αὐτῷ τὸν σταυρὸν
coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross,

φέρειν ὄπισθεν τοῦ Ἰησοῦ.
that he might bear it further on after Jesus.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

""ALL the Scriptures CONCERNING THE CHRIST _HOW_ THAT HE HAD TO SUFFER" -- had to SUFFER VICTORIOUSLY. "
That is not evidence that in his suffering or in his progress he was triumphant, only that through his suffering he was triumphant.

Ag please. <<that through his suffering he was triumphant>> = <<in his suffering or progress he was triumphant>>.

 

[Acolyte]

Since God’s Word is truth, this means we must worship God in accordance with His Word. As Paul said,


Colossians 3:17 And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.


If our worship is going to be pleasing to God it must be in accordance with God’s Word. If we are not worshipping God by following His Word, then we are not true worshippers. We don’t have any excuse that we can use that will justify adding something God has not authorized because God has given us a pattern to follow after, and we must read and study about it in our Bibles because we cannot worship God based on what we feel is right.


Proverbs 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.

Please worship our Heavenly Father in Jesus Yahshua's name. He is our example and mediator.

Glory to Yah! In Jesus Yashua's name. Amen

 

[bbyrd009]

Thanks for admitting a conspicuously apparent meaningless speculation.

well, these are like Doctors of Divinity and whatnot, stumbling over fairly conscientious treatments? But as i have yet to provide an example, i'm not really sure how you might even have a comment there wadr

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

"<<His behaviour on the cross shows that he suffered as any man would who was crucified.>>
Most certainly NOT!"
Evidence for this statement please.
We know Jesus was fully human, he ate, drank, got tierd, suffered emotions and durring his trial he was brutaly beaten, flogged and crucified.
While he hung on the cross the phatases tormented him imitating the restless movement of his head, wagging their heads from side to side.
Like any man he experienced thirst and he died.

Jesus suffered.

Speaking and trying to argue against yourself you are. Because you 'argue' on FALSE PREMISE, that <<Jesus was fully human>>... only.

<<Jesus was fully human, he ate>>, yes. But He said his real food was to do God's will. In other words, that He was both fully human and fully God.
Jesus <<suffered emotions>>, say you? No; He suffered from the emotions of others; his own emotions strengthened Him in his suffering TO THE GLORY OF GOD.

He in truth was unique, the ONLY Jesus Christ "yesterday today and forevermore The Same". But deliberately do you hush the full truth, that <Jesus was fully human> AND, IN THE FIRST PLACE, FULLY GOD -- which very Divine Truth this very 'arguing' from you, ATTEMPTS TO CONTRADICT and gainsay!

GOD in Full Fellowship and Equality of Father, Son and Spirit, from eternity decided that the Son of God would become the Son of Man with the exclusive view to the salvation of the fallen and lost children of man. The INITIATIVE fully belongs to God, to "God in Christ" and thus Jesus is God BECOME Man.

That we know.

And so your full list can be completed; that <<He drank>> and said, "I thirst". Yes. but He also said, "I AM The Water of Life".

In any case, (as far as I know) Jesus never tired and never said that He <<got tired .. as any man would>>. Certainly NOT. Jesus for no moment ceased to be God Almighty while He also ceased for no moment to be man--The One and Only Mortal Son of Man The Immortal Son of God, and therefore at once, The One and Only Saviour.

The Son DIVINELY became The Mortal DIVINITY -- became mortal, DIVINELY, or He could not become the God-Man the Son of Man. HOW? Because "I HAVE POWER" : DIVINE POWER, UNIQUE POWER, POWER I ONLY HAVE : "POWER TO LAY DOWN MY LIFE". "Behold The Man" cried Pilate! "The Man", God Jesus! "THIS (mortal Man) JESUS whom you crucified and killed, God raised Christ and Lord."

Therefore, that <<during his trial he was brutaly beaten, flogged and crucified>> CANNOT make any difference because these were all the evil deeds of sinners. Jesus sinned not because He was and is no sinner man, but was and is just and righteous, the sinless Son of Man Son of God. Therefore Psalm 23 is IN CHRIST PROVED WHOLLY TRUE and in none other, ever.

And so also, That while Jesus hung on the cross the pharisees <<tormented him ... wagging their heads from side to side>>, just further illustrates how Jesus IN HIS SUFFERING AND DEATH TRIUMPHED GLORIOUSLY. But again, LOOK AT YOU, TORMENTING SCRIPTURE WITH YOUR FRAUD, <<imitating the restless movement of his head>>. Bull man! Shame on you!

 

[bbyrd009]

Surviving Roman Catholic Heresies in Protestantism

come out of her, my people

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The In Suffering Triumphant King Overrules and Overturns All Destiny

Luke 23:27-31

Ἠκολούθει δὲ αὐτῷ πολὺ πλῆθος τοῦ λαοῦ καὶ γυναικῶν αἳ
And there followed him a great company of people, and of women,

ἐκόπτοντο καὶ ἐθρήνουν αὐτόν.
which also bewailed and lamented him.

στραφεὶς δὲ πρὸς αὐτὰς Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν Θυγατέρες
But Jesus, turning unto them, said, Daughters

Ἱερουσαλήμ, μὴ κλαίετε ἐπ’ ἐμέ· πλὴν ἐφ’ ἑαυτὰς
of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves,

κλαίετε καὶ ἐπὶ τὰ τέκνα ὑμῶν, 29 ὅτι ἰδοὺ ἔρχονται ἡμέραι
and for your children, 29 For behold, the days are coming,

ἐν αἷς ἐροῦσιν, Μακάριαι αἱ στεῖραι, καὶ αἱ κοιλίαι
in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs

αἳ οὐκ ἐγέννησαν, καὶ μαστοὶ οἳ οὐκ ἔθρεψαν.
that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.

τότε ἄρξονται λέγειν τοῖς ὄρεσιν Πέσατε ἐφ’ ἡμᾶς, καὶ
Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and

τοῖς βουνοῖς Καλύψατε ἡμᾶς·
to the hills, Cover us.

ὅτι εἰ ἐν ὑγρῷ ξύλῳ ταῦτα ποιοῦσιν,
For if they do these things in a green tree,

ἐν τῷ ξηρῷ τί γένηται;
what shall be done in the dry?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

well, these are like Doctors of Divinity and whatnot, stumbling over fairly conscientious treatments? But as i have yet to provide an example, i'm not really sure how you might even have a comment there wadr

Don't make your problem, mine; I'm not worried about <comments>; you are.

 

[JohnPaul]

Where does it say that he didn't.
Scripture records that a man coming the other way was used to carry the cross.
Why did that happen?

Yes he helped our Lord, when those close to him denied knowing him, yet he forgave them.

 

[epostle]

To create some Scripture where there is none to support the papists’ blood-worship abominations,

Have you told your doctor about this?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Yes he helped our Lord, when those close to him denied knowing him, yet he forgave them.

I believe Simon the Cyrene is representative of "the stranger" in Israel. Leviticus 23:22 (not necessarily "poor"). He more probably came "from his (own) land" where "on the fourteenth day of the First Month" he had gone to "cut the corners of (his) field" to "wave" before God's, "First Sheaf Wave Offering" and "Priest", Jesus.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Have you told your doctor about this?

Proven: Catholics can't help to be demeaning, it's part of their spiritual fabric.

 

[epostle]

Proven: Catholics can't help to be demeaning, it's part of their spiritual fabric.

"the papists’ blood-worship abominations" is far more demeaning than me advising you to seek medical help for your hateful psychosis.

I don't see Catholics posting whole threads mocking "Bible Students" (or whatever you call yourself) with fallacious arguments, do you? Maybe I should start one, but it will be factual. Your post-enlightenment cult makes a religion out of persecuting Catholicism with lies and falsehoods. Where do Catholics misrepresent your beliefs in such a diabolical fashion as you do to us??? NOWHERE! And you say WE are demeaning???