Talking in Tongues:

[OzSpen]

I had my say. I see no reason to argue. I see that others disagree. That is okay with me. They are expressing their opinion as I did mine. Have they changed my opinion. No! Not at all.

Why are you evading dealing with the biblical evidence? Brushing it aside like this is not engaging in a reasonable discussion on the topic.

 

[OzSpen]

***
In my opinion, yes.

1,000 faulty Pontiacs do not make all Pontiacs defective.

 

[H. Richard]

Why are you evading dealing with the biblical evidence? Brushing it aside like this is not engaging in a reasonable discussion on the topic.

***
I gave evidence that supports my opinion in the OP and see no reason to repeat them. Sorry you can't see it.

 

[Josho]

Thanks for a great post.

I know a man who gave up his full time job and bought a building to start a church. His mind was to first spend time "babbaling as you called. So cutting to the chase. He spent the first day babbaling. and really struggled to keep it going. As his flesh struggling and self was struggling to keep going. The Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. So he forced himself to carry on for as long as he could. Next day the same. A woman came by and asked him anything happen yet. He said no. Next day he carried on and forced himself to babbel on for another day. With many breaks and a complete struggle. Woman comes by agains and asked anything happen yet? He said no. She said I am going to a church meeting do you want to come. He was desperate for a change of this horrible disaplining of the flesh and said yes please thank you. Went to the meeting and as he looked at the woman on his left. He saw an real live xray of the womans hip. Shocked to his core. He near jumped out his skin. The woman looked at him and he said you have a sore hip. The woman said well duh tell me something I dont know with attitude. The guy asked can I pray for your hip. and you know the rest. So for some reason there are many people who babbal for all sorts of reasons. But there are also many testimonys of things like this that have shown that there is something in babbaling. So yes the woman got healed instantly. and the church was wrecked in a good way.

2 Tim 1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.

Timothy is not talking to himself or Holy Ghost in a foriegn language.

What is your thoughts on this verse?

wow that's amazing mate, it's amazing how people get accurate words of knowledge from the Holy Spirit about someone else they know nothing about

 

[H. Richard]

In the past I heard a man named Robert Tilton on TV and he would let out a babel while speaking. It was said to be speaking in tongues but I taped it and what I learned is that it was the same practiced babel every time,.

In my opinion many use it to for a show that they are closer to God than others.

***
1 Cor 14:4
4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.
NKJV

Like I said, they do it for a show.

 

[OzSpen]

Oz,

I have to disagree with you here. We see in Acts 2 that the "tongues" spoken there were "declaring the wonders of God." They were not preaching the Gospel in various languages, but rather, were praising and magnifying God in various languages. Thus, they were speaking to God, and not to men. Consider the following.


Thus, the gift of tongues was the ability to praise God in rare or distant languages that acted as a sign to those from those locations. Of course, if no one was from one of those locations, the language would not be understood. In fact, the speaker would not themselves know what they were saying because they also did not know the language. The praise is directed at God, but the purpose of the gift was to act as a sign to unbelievers. Moreover, tongues was a sign of God's desire to reach all the nations. Just as God made diverse tongues to disperse people, so the Spirit used the miraculous gift of tongues to indicate God's desire to gather all nations to himself in Christ through the Holy Spirit.

In conclusion, there is no justification (in my mind) that Paul is referencing a different gift than what the narratives of Acts 2 and 10 describe. There is one gift of tongues mentioned in the NT. Paul uses the same word and gives no indication that there are different classifications of this gift. There is no rationale for suggesting that "speaking to men and not to God" refers to and individualized prayer language. Paul further describes this same gift as a "sign not to believers but to unbelievers." If Paul is referencing supernatural praise of God in languages never learned (as we see clearly described in Acts 2) then Paul's description of it being "speaking to....God" and "a sign to unbelievers" fits perfectly. There is no need to create an entirely new classification of tongues based on that one phrase from Paul. His description in his letter to the Corinthians matches perfectly with the narratives of Acts.

Wormwood,

In my understanding, your assumption is incorrect biblically that 'there is no justification (in my mind) that Paul is referencing a different gift than what the narratives of Acts 2 and 10 describe. There is one gift of tongues mentioned in the NT'.

I disagree for these biblical reasons:

1. What happened on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:6) was that 'each one was hearing them speak in his own language' (ESV). There was no interpretation of tongues needed on the Day of Pentecost. The language in tongues was heard in the various national languages.
2. The gift of tongues in 1 Cor 12-14 requires the gift of interpretation and is quite different from what happened at Pentecost: 'For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit' (1 Cor 14:2 NIV). Therefore, in 1 Cor 14, they were not speaking in a known language because an interpretation was necessary. First Cor 14:12-13, 27-28 (ESV) states:

12 So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church. 13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret.... 27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. 28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.

You stated, 'Paul uses the same word and gives no indication that there are different classifications of this gift' between Acts 2 and 1 Cor 14. That is not what I find when I read Arndt & Gingrich's Greek lexicon for Greek words. The one word can mean a number of different things. In fact, Arndt & Gingrich (1957:161) give 3 meanings for the use of glwssa: (1) Tongue - the physical organ; (2) figuratively of forked flames; (3) tongues that are antiquated, foreign, unintelligible, mysterious utterances OR speaking in marvelous heavenly languages.

So here we have the same word with 3 different meanings. That's not uncommon in Greek, English or other languages. Go to Oxford Dictionaries online and read the 2 different meanings for tongue.

Oz

Works consulted
Arndt, W F & Gingrich, F W 1957. A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press (limited edition licensed to Zondervan Publishing House).

 

[OzSpen]

I have taken the following verses out of the NT Bible that mention speaking in tongues. I will make comments after each group. My comments are my opinions about what they mean. You have the right to disagree but what I am posting is what I believe.

Mark 16:17-18
17 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
18 "they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
(NKJ)

My comments >> Some Churches teach that in verse 17 the tongues mentioned are a special language that only God knows. I don't believe that. I believe, that the tongues spoken about, is a person, miraculously, being able to talk in a foreign language. Some Churches teach that we must "take up serpents" in our hands to prove we are children of God. I don't believe this either. I remember well that one of the temptations that Satan tried to get Jesus to do was to tempt God by throwing Himself off of a cliff.

Acts 2:1-11
1 Now when the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.

Key verse; verse 6

6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his ... "own language."

7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, "Look, are not all these who speak Galileans?
8 "And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born?
9 "Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
10 "Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,
11 "Cretans and Arabs-- we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God."
(NKJ)

Acts 10:44-48
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.
45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered,
47 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?"
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
(NKJ)

My comments >> The "tongues" mentioned in the above scriptures are people speaking in the language of a foreign nation. There is nothing above to indicate that the tongues are a special language of angels that men were speaking.

Acts 19:4-6
4 Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
(NKJ)

My comments >> The "tongues" mentioned in the above scriptures are people speaking in a foreign nations language. There is nothing above to indicate that the tongues are a special language of angels that men were speaking.

Cor 12:4-11
4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.


Cor 12:28-31
28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles?
30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.
(NKJ)

My comments >> The "tongues" mentioned in the above scriptures are people speaking in a foreign nations language. There is nothing above to indicate that the tongues are a special language of angels that men were speaking.

1 Cor 13:1-8
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.
4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;
5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;
6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;
7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.
(NKJ)

My comments >> In 1 Cor 13:1-8 above someone could say that verse 1 means a special kind of language spoken by Angels. However, I believe Paul is using the tongues of men and tongues of angels as an ..."example" .. and is not referring to speaking in tongues. The key word is "THOUGH" which means
1. even if; supposing that; as, though he may fail, he will have tried. verse 1 paraphrased: "Supposing that" I should speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

1 Cor 14:1-23
1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.

4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.
6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching?
7 Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played?
8 For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare himself for battle?
9 So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air.

10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of languages in the world, and none of them is without significance.
Key verse; verse 10

My comment; Let us put 1 Cor. 14:1-10 in context. Please note that in verse 4 it says, "He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself," Also note that in verse 6 it says, "But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching?" I ask you this, do you impart any new knowledge to the body of the Church, do you prophesy, do you impart any new knowledge to the Church? If you do not do any of these things then all you are doing is edifying yourself?

Verse 9 and 10 tells a lot about speaking in tongues. They indicate, to me, that what Paul is talking about is the languages of men in the world.

If a Missionary goes to a foreign land and can not speak in the language of the land how can he be understood?

11 Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be a foreigner to him who speaks, and he who speaks will be a foreigner to me.
12 Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel.
13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.
16 Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say "Amen" at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?
17 For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all;
19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
20 Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.

21 In the law it is written: "With men of other tongues and other lips I will speak to this people; and yet, for all that, they will not hear Me," says the Lord.

22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.
23 Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?
(NKJ)

My comments >> How is it a sign to unbelievers if they cannot understand the sign? There is nothing above to indicate that the tongues are not other national languages. In verse 10 and verse 21 Paul is talking about the languages of men spoken in the world.

With the advent of the printing press and the publishing of the scriptures in the languages of the world I see no reason for the necessity of speaking in a foreign language. I think that is what Paul meant when he said it would cease. 1 Cor 13:8
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. (NKJ)

So you see that I do not believe in the babble that some would call speaking in tongues. If anyone has ever seen Robert Tilton on TV you will understand what I mean as babble. When the sounds you hear are the same practiced sounds, over and over again, I, personally, think they are just putting on a show to display themselves as being very religious.

Of course others have their own opinions and it is right to have them. But I do not believe that the "tongues" spoken of in the scriptures are anything other than the languages of men, and I have the right to my belief, just as those that disagree with me have theirs. Peace!

I post this in Christian love as food for thought, Richard

Richard,

Your claim is, 'So you see that I do not believe in the babble that some would call speaking in tongues'.

I find the labelling of God's gift of tongues as babble to be blasphemous. Why? 'For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious' (1 Cor 14:2 NLT).

Therefore, for you to label somebody speaking to God in tongues as 'babble', I find that to be an assault on the tongue speaker's relationship with God.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

***
1 Cor 14:4
4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.
NKJV

Like I said, they do it for a show.

Richard,

1 Cor 14:4 is in the inerrant Scripture. Scripture states that the person who speaks in tongues 'edifies himself' (NKJV) or 'a person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally' (NLT).

This is not extra-biblical revelation. This is Scripture. You don't like the fact that a person who speaks in tongues can be edified personally, but God through Scripture affirms that that is exactly what happens when a person is given the gift of tongues by God. That person is edified, built up or strengthened personally.

Who are you to label his as doing it 'for a show' when God says it is for a person to be edified. You seem to have dumped some of your presuppositions onto Scripture and made it read what it doesn't say. :wacko:

Please explain how edify = for a show in your theology.

Oz

 

[H. Richard]

Richard,

Your claim is, 'So you see that I do not believe in the babble that some would call speaking in tongues'.

I find the labelling of God's gift of tongues as babble to be blasphemous. Why? 'For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious' (1 Cor 14:2 NLT).

Therefore, for you to label somebody speaking to God in tongues as 'babble', I find that to be an assault on the tongue speaker's relationship with God.

Oz

***
Call it what ever you wish but I do not think God wants His children to speak babble in front of others. Language is for communication and if a person babbles then what message is being sent? Is it the message that The person is closer to God than others who do not claim to speak in a tongue?

What is blasphemous is to mix law with grace and by doing it nullify the work of the cross. To claim that the message given to Paul included the religious works of men to obtain salvation. To refuse to see that the Message given to Paul was HIDDEN in God and revealed to Paul by the Holy Spirit. There was a gospel of the Kingdom at hand in that Jesus was there to set up the kingdom promised to the Jews ONLY. When the Jews rejected Jesus as their king they rejected the "kingdom at Hand" gospel but God had another plan hidden in that Jesus' shed blood would atone for, pay for, all the sins of the world. The children of God are those that place their faith in God's new plan. But men refuse to accept God's work on the cross as sufficient to pay their sin debt. Instead they blend law with grace and that is an affront to Jesus' work on the cross and a refusal to accept God's work on the cross as sufficient for their salvation.

Jesus came to lift the burden of keeping the law from the shoulders of mankind because no man could keep the law. Jesus gave mankind the free gift of salvation but only those that believe it will be saved. I do not see many teaching that salvation is by faith in the work of Jesus on the cross. What I do see is men placing their faith in religious works.

 

[Webers_Home]

-
● 1 Cor 14:4 . . He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself,

The inference here is that people who blather to themselves in a strange
language are self-centered, i.e. they only care about themselves.

Billy Graham once commented that a man all wrapped up in himself is the
smallest package in the world.

/

 

[OzSpen]

***
Call it what ever you wish but I do not think God wants His children to speak babble in front of others. Language is for communication and if a person babbles then what message is being sent? Is it the message that The person is closer to God than others who do not claim to speak in a tongue?

What is blasphemous is to mix law with grace and by doing it nullify the work of the cross. To claim that the message given to Paul included the religious works of men to obtain salvation. To refuse to see that the Message given to Paul was HIDDEN in God and revealed to Paul by the Holy Spirit. There was a gospel of the Kingdom at hand in that Jesus was there to set up the kingdom promised to the Jews ONLY. When the Jews rejected Jesus as their king they rejected the "kingdom at Hand" gospel but God had another plan hidden in that Jesus' shed blood would atone for, pay for, all the sins of the world. The children of God are those that place their faith in God's new plan. But men refuse to accept God's work on the cross as sufficient to pay their sin debt. Instead they blend law with grace and that is an affront to Jesus' work on the cross and a refusal to accept God's work on the cross as sufficient for their salvation.

Jesus came to lift the burden of keeping the law from the shoulders of mankind because no man could keep the law. Jesus gave mankind the free gift of salvation but only those that believe it will be saved. I do not see many teaching that salvation is by faith in the work of Jesus on the cross. What I do see is men placing their faith in religious works.

Richard,

You didn't answer what I write about your labelling tongues as babble, which I find to be blasphemous.

In the context of discussion of tongues in 1 Cor 12-14, God tells us: 'If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal' (NIV). Therefore, tongues from God's perspective is 'tongues of men or of angels'. It is you who is inventing the blasphemous designation of calling tongues babble. I have written an article on Truth Challenge to counter your assertions: Gift of tongues is gibberish?

I agree that God does not want his children to speak babble. Tongues is not babble. Are you telling me that Paul was promoting babble when he wrote, 'I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you'? Thank you Paul for advocating, 'I thank God that I speak in babble more than all of you'. That is a ridiculous conclusion. Are you telling us that Paul is a babbler?

It was Paul who advocated, under the inspiration of the Spirit, 'Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues' (1 Cor 14:39 NIV). Paul is promoting the gifts of prophecy and speaking in tongues. Not once does he state anything that comes close to 'do not forbid speaking in babble'. That's your invention that is coming from your presuppositions.

You stated, 'What is blasphemous is to mix law with grace and by doing it nullify the work of the cross. To claim that the message given to Paul included the religious works of men to obtain salvation'. Not once did I state this. It's your own imposition on what I wrote.

In your response to me you raised topics that I said nothing about in regard to your view of law with grace, the kingdom at Hand, etc. All of this is your red herring that has nothing to do with what I wrote.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

-
● 1 Cor 14:4 . . He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself,

The inference here is that people who blather to themselves in a strange
language are self-centered, i.e. they only care about themselves.

Billy Graham once commented that a man all wrapped up in himself is the
smallest package in the world.

/

No, Webers_Home, that is not the inference at all. The direct statement from God himself is that when people speak in tongues they are personally edified. This is not an invention from human beings. This is coming from the inspired Scripture.

How dare you impose on Scripture to make tongues = 'people who blather to themselves in a strange language'. That is not Bible but Webers invention.

This is what the Bible says about those who speak in tongues: 'A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally' (1 Cor 14:4 NLT). If you had respect for God's inerrant Scripture, you would not be labelling the gift of tongues as for 'people who blather to themselves'. I find that to be an obnoxious and blasphemous statement.

Oz

 

[Josho]

Thanks for a great post.

I know a man who gave up his full time job and bought a building to start a church. His mind was to first spend time "babbaling as you called. So cutting to the chase. He spent the first day babbaling. and really struggled to keep it going. As his flesh struggling and self was struggling to keep going. The Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. So he forced himself to carry on for as long as he could. Next day the same. A woman came by and asked him anything happen yet. He said no. Next day he carried on and forced himself to babbel on for another day. With many breaks and a complete struggle. Woman comes by agains and asked anything happen yet? He said no. She said I am going to a church meeting do you want to come. He was desperate for a change of this horrible disaplining of the flesh and said yes please thank you. Went to the meeting and as he looked at the woman on his left. He saw an real live xray of the womans hip. Shocked to his core. He near jumped out his skin. The woman looked at him and he said you have a sore hip. The woman said well duh tell me something I dont know with attitude. The guy asked can I pray for your hip. and you know the rest. So for some reason there are many people who babbal for all sorts of reasons. But there are also many testimonys of things like this that have shown that there is something in babbaling. So yes the woman got healed instantly. and the church was wrecked in a good way.

2 Tim 1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.

Timothy is not talking to himself or Holy Ghost in a foriegn language.

What is your thoughts on this verse?

Sorry for quoting this again, but this is just an amazing example of what tongues can do, it doesn't need to be forced, but this still is a great testimony about the desire of seeking the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and it proves anyone can do it, if they put their heart into really searching for the spiritual gifts that God has to offer us, and activating those spiritual gifts. I don't see why their are disagreements between the people of the Body of Christ on the topic of "tongues." It's a heavenly language of babbling, that we do not make up, but it flows right out of the Holy Spirit in in our heart, but the Holy Spirit can as others have said, cause others to speak in foreign languages, and help others to understand foreign languages, in the same way he can also help others to interpret the Holy Ghost "language" of tongues, and people have interpreted prophesies out of this stuff, people have interpreted what's happening in the supernatural realm from someone else's "tongues." My mum was praying in tongues in Church and that was interpreted, the pastor even immediately got an interpretation straight from heaven, and it was about the spiritual condition of today's modern day church, the Holy Spirit was saying the ground is cracked and dry, and that was what I remember from the interpretation, i wish i could tell you more, but that's what i remember. But it's a calling for the Church, to wake up, to come closer to the Holy Spirit, to spend some quality time with him, to stop rejecting the spiritual gifts, which may seem crazy to the world, and the more structural Christians and legalistic Christians, but it's the way the Holy Spirit rolls you know, he wants to move freely in the Church, in the Body of Christ, in each and every one of you, he doesn't wanna be locked away in the box! And we really all need to learn to be still in the quiet place, too many of us have too much going on in our lives. The gift of tongues is for every born again believer, any born again believer can receive it, some may struggle more than others, but if it's really the desire of your heart to speak in tongues, you can! Ask God, receive it, thank him for it, and in faith open your mouth, and just let it flow freely, it may not be that easy for some but you go spend that time being still with God in the quiet and you will soon become a very very massive pain to the devil and a very very strong warrior of Christ.

Amen. Now go on guys, i encourage you all.

 

[Sword]

***
In my opinion, yes.

So when I am alone and in the secret place. and it is only me and God and I am speaking and singing in tounges . You think that is for show. You think it was show when my lunges had a clot in each and I am speaking in tounges last might. Then for some reason I think to blow on my chest for no aparent reason. And I feel my chest heat up and now I have full lung expansion. You think its all a joke? Maybe you think I am lying. You decide and what ever you believe thats what you will walk in. God will not force you to believe. We decide clearly on our own, because we know better. Your words are life and death unto you and every thing else you speak about. So after 13 months of having a clot in my groin and one in each lung they are gone. And its only in the last 10 days I have been going to the secret place and spending time with God there. Then this happens. you carry on doing and believeing what you like man.

 

[H. Richard]

Richard,

1 Cor 14:4 is in the inerrant Scripture. Scripture states that the person who speaks in tongues 'edifies himself' (NKJV) or 'a person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally' (NLT).

This is not extra-biblical revelation. This is Scripture. You don't like the fact that a person who speaks in tongues can be edified personally, but God through Scripture affirms that that is exactly what happens when a person is given the gift of tongues by God. That person is edified, built up or strengthened personally.

Who are you to label his as doing it 'for a show' when God says it is for a person to be edified. You seem to have dumped some of your presuppositions onto Scripture and made it read what it doesn't say. :wacko:

Please explain how edify = for a show in your theology.

Oz

***
Why would I waste my time trying to explain anything to you. You have made up your mind about it.

I took all the scriptures that used the word tongues in them and gave an explanation for them. But you will not except my explanations. Why would I think you would except anything else I might say. Foolishnes!

 

[Webers_Home]

-
"For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no
one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries." (1Cor
14:2)

That's just it. God only knows what the self-tonguer is really saying. They
might even be cussing!

/

 

[Sword]

-
"For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no
one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries." (1Cor
14:2)

That's just it. God only knows what the self-tonguer is really saying. They
might even be cussing!

/

You will also be praying through the Holy Ghost what is on your heart the most. The unselfish things Holy Spirit can bring to God.

 

[Webers_Home]

-

You will also be praying through the Holy Ghost what is on your heart the
most.

You do what you want; blabber your fool head off till the cows come home,
but I choose to be a sensible Christian and follow Paul's example by praying
with a language that I understand.

● 1Cor 14:13-15 . . Anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may
interpret what he says. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my
mind is unfruitful. So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will
also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my
mind.

According to 1Cor 12:10, 1Cor 12:30, and 1Cor 14:5 the gift of tongues
isn't universal, i.e. not everyone is supposed to have it; and thank God for
that because the very thought of praying in a foreign language that makes
no sense to me is repulsive to the very core of my being.

/

 

[Wormwood]

Wormwood,

In my understanding, your assumption is incorrect biblically that 'there is no justification (in my mind) that Paul is referencing a different gift than what the narratives of Acts 2 and 10 describe. There is one gift of tongues mentioned in the NT'.

I disagree for these biblical reasons:

1. What happened on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:6) was that 'each one was hearing them speak in his own language' (ESV). There was no interpretation of tongues needed on the Day of Pentecost. The language in tongues was heard in the various national languages.
2. The gift of tongues in 1 Cor 12-14 requires the gift of interpretation and is quite different from what happened at Pentecost: 'For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit' (1 Cor 14:2 NIV). Therefore, in 1 Cor 14, they were not speaking in a known language because an interpretation was necessary. First Cor 14:12-13, 27-28 (ESV) states:

You stated, 'Paul uses the same word and gives no indication that there are different classifications of this gift' between Acts 2 and 1 Cor 14. That is not what I find when I read Arndt & Gingrich's Greek lexicon for Greek words. The one word can mean a number of different things. In fact, Arndt & Gingrich (1957:161) give 3 meanings for the use of glwssa: (1) Tongue - the physical organ; (2) figuratively of forked flames; (3) tongues that are antiquated, foreign, unintelligible, mysterious utterances OR speaking in marvelous heavenly languages.

So here we have the same word with 3 different meanings. That's not uncommon in Greek, English or other languages. Go to Oxford Dictionaries online and read the 2 different meanings for tongue.

Oz

Works consulted
Arndt, W F & Gingrich, F W 1957. A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press (limited edition licensed to Zondervan Publishing House).

Oz,

Thank you for your response.

1. It seems you are saying the miracle was done in the ears of the hearers rather than the tongues of the speakers. This, to me, makes no sense. The Spirit is declared to have fallen on the speakers, not the listeners. Moreover, the Spirit came down in "tongues" of fire and there is no mention of the Spirit falling on the listeners in images of ears. Of course the audience was "hearing them speak in their own language" just as you are currently reading my writing in your own language. That doesn't mean the miraculous work was in the ears of the listeners. And, as you pointed out, the word here can mean "languages." It just makes no sense to me that God would miraculously give the gift of "languages" to the Apostles but then we are to understand that word to mean incomprehensible uttering that required a further miracle in the ears of the audience to understand this utterance. No, clearly the miracle was "languages" and the audience understood these languages as being the unique dialects of their homelands which acted as a sign to them that something unusual was going on with these men (not with themselves). The point of Pentecost, I believe, Is that in man's pride, God divided the world through foreign languages. However, in Christ, God is beginning to unite the world again by the Holy Spirit through the reversal of what happened at Babel. All nations were now God's focus once again.

2. Yes, the gift of tongues requires interpretation if no one speaks the language. I find it very difficult to believe that the audience, that did not have the Holy Spirit (as we see in Acts 2:38) would have been able to have the gift of interpretation by the power of the Holy Spirit (whom they did not have). The idea that glossia has a range of meaning and therefore the "gift of glossia" can be different gifts I find to be a tremendous stretch. When the word is being referenced in a very specific and descriptive way, such as the miraculous gift of tongues, then it is not being used as a general term. It is referencing a specific gift in both occasions, and is not a nebulous use of the word. It would be like me saying, "he has the gift of flight." Of course we automatically associate "gift" and "flight" with the ability to fly...and rightly so. TO say, well, it could be the gift of "running away" because "flight" could also reference fleeing, just isnt correct. It just isn't how that specific phrase is logically understood. Just because language permits something doesn't mean that contextually we have to be open to every possible range of the word when it is used in a specific way. The context shapes the word range. Again, there is NO indication in the text that Paul is shifting meaning or that he has different gifts in mind. If the gift of tongues is praising God in unlearned human languages, the descriptions in Acts fit perfectly with 1 Cor. 12-14 and I don't think there is any reason to complicate the text further without very specific linguistic justification for doing so.

 

[Sword]

-

You do what you want; blabber your fool head off till the cows come home,
but I choose to be a sensible Christian and follow Paul's example by praying
with a language that I understand.



According to 1Cor 12:10, 1Cor 12:30, and 1Cor 14:5 the gift of tongues
isn't universal, i.e. not everyone is supposed to have it; and thank God for
that because the very thought of praying in a foreign language that makes
no sense to me is repulsive to the very core of my being.

/

You quote all these verses and forgot that you are in danger of hell for calling me a fool.
Your language is horrible why are you so hurt?

You want to follows Pauls example really your a follower of Paul.
I follow Jesus. I read the bible to get to know Him not it.

See you are going on A what you think is correct, and B your experiancees.

I go on what I think the bible says and my most beuatiful experiances.

I dont want you to do any thing. I wojt forse you to do any thing.

But I am not angry becaue you dont agree with me.
You are clearly angry in your life.