Talking in Tongues:

[H. Richard]

I have taken the following verses out of the NT Bible that mention speaking in tongues. I will make comments after each group. My comments are my opinions about what they mean. You have the right to disagree but what I am posting is what I believe.

Mark 16:17-18
17 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
18 "they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
(NKJ)

My comments >> Some Churches teach that in verse 17 the tongues mentioned are a special language that only God knows. I don't believe that. I believe, that the tongues spoken about, is a person, miraculously, being able to talk in a foreign language. Some Churches teach that we must "take up serpents" in our hands to prove we are children of God. I don't believe this either. I remember well that one of the temptations that Satan tried to get Jesus to do was to tempt God by throwing Himself off of a cliff.

Acts 2:1-11
1 Now when the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.

Key verse; verse 6

6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his ... "own language."

7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, "Look, are not all these who speak Galileans?
8 "And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born?
9 "Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
10 "Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,
11 "Cretans and Arabs-- we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God."
(NKJ)

Acts 10:44-48
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.
45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered,
47 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?"
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
(NKJ)

My comments >> The "tongues" mentioned in the above scriptures are people speaking in the language of a foreign nation. There is nothing above to indicate that the tongues are a special language of angels that men were speaking.

Acts 19:4-6
4 Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
(NKJ)

My comments >> The "tongues" mentioned in the above scriptures are people speaking in a foreign nations language. There is nothing above to indicate that the tongues are a special language of angels that men were speaking.

Cor 12:4-11
4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.


Cor 12:28-31
28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles?
30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.
(NKJ)

My comments >> The "tongues" mentioned in the above scriptures are people speaking in a foreign nations language. There is nothing above to indicate that the tongues are a special language of angels that men were speaking.

1 Cor 13:1-8
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.
4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;
5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;
6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;
7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.
(NKJ)

My comments >> In 1 Cor 13:1-8 above someone could say that verse 1 means a special kind of language spoken by Angels. However, I believe Paul is using the tongues of men and tongues of angels as an ..."example" .. and is not referring to speaking in tongues. The key word is "THOUGH" which means
1. even if; supposing that; as, though he may fail, he will have tried. verse 1 paraphrased: "Supposing that" I should speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

1 Cor 14:1-23
1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.

4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.
6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching?
7 Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played?
8 For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare himself for battle?
9 So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air.

10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of languages in the world, and none of them is without significance.
Key verse; verse 10

My comment; Let us put 1 Cor. 14:1-10 in context. Please note that in verse 4 it says, "He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself," Also note that in verse 6 it says, "But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching?" I ask you this, do you impart any new knowledge to the body of the Church, do you prophesy, do you impart any new knowledge to the Church? If you do not do any of these things then all you are doing is edifying yourself?

Verse 9 and 10 tells a lot about speaking in tongues. They indicate, to me, that what Paul is talking about is the languages of men in the world.

If a Missionary goes to a foreign land and can not speak in the language of the land how can he be understood?

11 Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be a foreigner to him who speaks, and he who speaks will be a foreigner to me.
12 Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel.
13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.
16 Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say "Amen" at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?
17 For you indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all;
19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
20 Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.

21 In the law it is written: "With men of other tongues and other lips I will speak to this people; and yet, for all that, they will not hear Me," says the Lord.

22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.
23 Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?
(NKJ)

My comments >> How is it a sign to unbelievers if they cannot understand the sign? There is nothing above to indicate that the tongues are not other national languages. In verse 10 and verse 21 Paul is talking about the languages of men spoken in the world.

With the advent of the printing press and the publishing of the scriptures in the languages of the world I see no reason for the necessity of speaking in a foreign language. I think that is what Paul meant when he said it would cease. 1 Cor 13:8
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. (NKJ)

So you see that I do not believe in the babble that some would call speaking in tongues. If anyone has ever seen Robert Tilton on TV you will understand what I mean as babble. When the sounds you hear are the same practiced sounds, over and over again, I, personally, think they are just putting on a show to display themselves as being very religious.

Of course others have their own opinions and it is right to have them. But I do not believe that the "tongues" spoken of in the scriptures are anything other than the languages of men, and I have the right to my belief, just as those that disagree with me have theirs. Peace!

I post this in Christian love as food for thought, Richard

 

[Sword]

Thanks for a great post.

I know a man who gave up his full time job and bought a building to start a church. His mind was to first spend time "babbaling as you called. So cutting to the chase. He spent the first day babbaling. and really struggled to keep it going. As his flesh struggling and self was struggling to keep going. The Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. So he forced himself to carry on for as long as he could. Next day the same. A woman came by and asked him anything happen yet. He said no. Next day he carried on and forced himself to babbel on for another day. With many breaks and a complete struggle. Woman comes by agains and asked anything happen yet? He said no. She said I am going to a church meeting do you want to come. He was desperate for a change of this horrible disaplining of the flesh and said yes please thank you. Went to the meeting and as he looked at the woman on his left. He saw an real live xray of the womans hip. Shocked to his core. He near jumped out his skin. The woman looked at him and he said you have a sore hip. The woman said well duh tell me something I dont know with attitude. The guy asked can I pray for your hip. and you know the rest. So for some reason there are many people who babbal for all sorts of reasons. But there are also many testimonys of things like this that have shown that there is something in babbaling. So yes the woman got healed instantly. and the church was wrecked in a good way.

2 Tim 1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.

Timothy is not talking to himself or Holy Ghost in a foriegn language.

What is your thoughts on this verse?

 

[Webers_Home]

-
● 1Cor 14:13 . . Let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he
may interpret.

In other words; it's possible that someone praying in Chinese may not even
know what they're saying. They might be thinking they're reciting a Hail
Mary or an Our Father but actually reciting the Gettysburg Address!

A charismatic once informed me that he prayed in a tongue because he
couldn't express his feelings any other way. Mind you this was an American
adult of almost fifty years old; educated in America and spoke, wrote, and
read English his entire life. So I asked him how it is that his command of the
English language was so poor that he could only express his thoughts in a
language that not even himself could either identify or understand?

● 1Cor 14:14-15 . . For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth,
but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit,
and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I
will sing with the understanding also.

(chuckle) It's no wonder that so many people think that Christians behave
like men gone mad from an overdose of crystal meth; what with so many of
them dancing with rattlesnakes, flailing their arms, yelling, bellowing, and
screaming, passing out, hurling themselves in the aisle, predicting the end of
the world, and gurgling like lunatics.

● 1Cor 14:23 . . So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks
in tongues, and some who do not understand, or some unbelievers come in,
will they not say that you are out of your mind?

● 1Cor 14:22a . .Tongues are for a sign

The sign isn't intended for the benefit of believers, but rather, for non
believers.

● 1Cor 14:22b . . not to them that believe, but to them that believe not

Since tongues are for the benefit of unbelievers, then it's de facto that a
tongue should be a valid language that the unbeliever himself speaks and
understands (cf. Acts 2:4-11). Somebody who exercises a tongue for any
other reason has missed the point; and they're behaving like a little kid with
a toy.

● 1Cor 14:20 . . Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in
malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

The purpose of any tongue is communication.

● 1Cor 14:6-9 . . Even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or
harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known
what is piped or harped? For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who
shall prepare himself to the battle? So likewise ye, except ye utter by the
tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken?
for ye shall speak into the air.

So if a tonguer is speaking a language nobody understands, they've actually
created a barrier to communication; viz: a regression to the tower of Babel;
and you can see for yourself how destructive that was to unity (Gen 11:1-9).
Webster's defines "regression" as: movement backward to a previous, and
especially worse or more primitive state or condition; viz: backwards
thinking.

● 1Cor 14:27-28 . . If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by
two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But
if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him
speak to himself, and to God.

Tonguers are not permitted to speak all at the same time like a mob of
howling political activists. One of the reasons why I get so annoyed by talk
shows like Today's Talk with Kathy Lee Gifford and Hoda Kodb, and ABC's
The View is because everyone talks all at once like a bunch of undisciplined
dogs barking and yapping in a kennel. And the way they interrupt each other
back and forth before the other can even finish a sentence is one of the very
things we teach children not to do. You'd think those supposedly mature
adults grew up without supervision the way they conduct themselves in a
conversation.

NO; tonguers are to take turns; speaking one at a time, rather than an
entire congregation of tonguers barking and yapping like dogs in a kennel
whenever they "feel the Spirit" moving them. And if there's no one to
interpret, tonguers are not permitted to speak at all. If Christians the world
over followed those rules, it would put the charismatics out of business in
less than two weeks.

FYI: The fruit of the Spirit is self control (Gal 5:23). People claiming to feel
the Spirit really ought not to behave like a cage full of excited monkeys.

● 1 Cor 14:33 . . For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.

FYI: These directives regulating the exercise of tongues in a church meeting
were written by the apostle Paul-- a duly authorized agent speaking on
behalf of Christianity's Christ.

● 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let
him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the
commandments of The Lord.

Therefore, when Christians proceed to defy the rules regulating the exercise
of tongues, they are in shameful rebellion against the very lord and master
of Christianity; and yet, ironically, many tongue violators still have the
chutzpah to pass themselves off as the Lord's Spirit-filled followers.
However; a follower can be defined as someone who gets in step and/or falls
in line rather than going off-reservation to do their own thing.

● 1Sam 15:23 . . Rebellion is as the sin of divination; and insubordination is
as iniquity and idolatry.

● 1John 1:6 . . If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in
darkness, we lie, and do not the truth

/

 

[H. Richard]

-
● 1Cor 14:13 . . Let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he
may interpret.

In other words; it's possible that someone praying in Chinese may not even
know what they're saying. They might be thinking they're reciting a Hail
Mary or an Our Father but actually reciting the Gettysburg Address!

A charismatic once informed me that he prayed in a tongue because he
couldn't express his feelings any other way. Mind you this was an American
adult of almost fifty years old; educated in America and spoke, wrote, and
read English his entire life. So I asked him how it is that his command of the
English language was so poor that he could only express his thoughts in a
language that not even himself could either identify or understand?

● 1Cor 14:14-15 . . For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth,
but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit,
and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I
will sing with the understanding also.

(chuckle) It's no wonder that so many people think that Christians behave
like men gone mad from an overdose of crystal meth; what with so many of
them dancing with rattlesnakes, flailing their arms, yelling, bellowing, and
screaming, passing out, hurling themselves in the aisle, predicting the end of
the world, and gurgling like lunatics.

● 1Cor 14:23 . . So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks
in tongues, and some who do not understand, or some unbelievers come in,
will they not say that you are out of your mind?

● 1Cor 14:22a . .Tongues are for a sign

The sign isn't intended for the benefit of believers, but rather, for non
believers.

● 1Cor 14:22b . . not to them that believe, but to them that believe not

Since tongues are for the benefit of unbelievers, then it's de facto that a
tongue should be a valid language that the unbeliever himself speaks and
understands (cf. Acts 2:4-11). Somebody who exercises a tongue for any
other reason has missed the point; and they're behaving like a little kid with
a toy.

● 1Cor 14:20 . . Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in
malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

The purpose of any tongue is communication.

● 1Cor 14:6-9 . . Even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or
harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known
what is piped or harped? For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who
shall prepare himself to the battle? So likewise ye, except ye utter by the
tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken?
for ye shall speak into the air.

So if a tonguer is speaking a language nobody understands, they've actually
created a barrier to communication; viz: a regression to the tower of Babel;
and you can see for yourself how destructive that was to unity (Gen 11:1-9).
Webster's defines "regression" as: movement backward to a previous, and
especially worse or more primitive state or condition; viz: backwards
thinking.

● 1Cor 14:27-28 . . If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by
two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But
if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him
speak to himself, and to God.

Tonguers are not permitted to speak all at the same time like a mob of
howling political activists. One of the reasons why I get so annoyed by talk
shows like Today's Talk with Kathy Lee Gifford and Hoda Kodb, and ABC's
The View is because everyone talks all at once like a bunch of undisciplined
dogs barking and yapping in a kennel. And the way they interrupt each other
back and forth before the other can even finish a sentence is one of the very
things we teach children not to do. You'd think those supposedly mature
adults grew up without supervision the way they conduct themselves in a
conversation.

NO; tonguers are to take turns; speaking one at a time, rather than an
entire congregation of tonguers barking and yapping like dogs in a kennel
whenever they "feel the Spirit" moving them. And if there's no one to
interpret, tonguers are not permitted to speak at all. If Christians the world
over followed those rules, it would put the charismatics out of business in
less than two weeks.

FYI: The fruit of the Spirit is self control (Gal 5:23). People claiming to feel
the Spirit really ought not to behave like a cage full of excited monkeys.

● 1 Cor 14:33 . . For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.

FYI: These directives regulating the exercise of tongues in a church meeting
were written by the apostle Paul-- a duly authorized agent speaking on
behalf of Christianity's Christ.

● 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let
him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the
commandments of The Lord.

Therefore, when Christians proceed to defy the rules regulating the exercise
of tongues, they are in shameful rebellion against the very lord and master
of Christianity; and yet, ironically, many tongue violators still have the
chutzpah to pass themselves off as the Lord's Spirit-filled followers.
However; a follower can be defined as someone who gets in step and/or falls
in line rather than going off-reservation to do their own thing.

● 1Sam 15:23 . . Rebellion is as the sin of divination; and insubordination is
as iniquity and idolatry.

● 1John 1:6 . . If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in
darkness, we lie, and do not the truth

/

***
What do you say is walking in darkness?

To me walking in darkness is walking without belief, faith, trust and confidence in the work of Jesus on the cross where He atoned for all the sins of the world. Walking in darkness is walking believing that what a person does will save him/herself.

 

[Webers_Home]

-

What do you say is walking in darkness?

• Improper use of the gift of tongues.

• Refusal to equate Paul's instructions on the use of tongues as Christ's
commandments

• Refusal to comply with Christ's commandments.

/

 

[FHII]

I'd like to address 1 Cor 14:13-14. According to the KJV:

Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. [14] For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.


H. Richard, I noticed the scripture you cited (whatever Bible version that may be) left out the word "unknown". I believe its important to address it. That is, unknown tongues.


It is unfruitful for them that hears. But is it unfruitful to the spirit? I don't think so.

So what in regards to the KJV do you have to say when it speaks of unknown tongues?

 

[OzSpen]

I'd like to address 1 Cor 14:13-14. According to the KJV:

Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. [14] For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

H. Richard, I noticed the scripture you cited (whatever Bible version that may be) left out the word "unknown". I believe its important to address it. That is, unknown tongues.

It is unfruitful for them that hears. But is it unfruitful to the spirit? I don't think so.

So what in regards to the KJV do you have to say when it speaks of unknown tongues?

FHill,

There's a good reason why 'unknown' is left out of the English translation of 1 Cor 14:13-14. That's because it is not in the Greek text. See Mounce's Interlinear of these verses and you'll see that glwssa is used, which means 'a tongue' and NOT 'an unknown tongue'.
The Greek text for 1 Cor 14:13 reads: Διὸ ὁ λαλῶν γλώσσῃ προσευχέσθω ἵνα διερμηνεύῃ (SBL).

Therefore, we have these other English translations:

• 'Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful' (ESV).
• 'Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful' (NASB).
• 'For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful' (NIV).
• 'Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful' (NKJV).

Not one of these translations uses 'unknown tongue', and that includes the NKJV. Why? Because it is not in the Greek text. The KJV translators have become very interpretive in how they translated it into 'unknown' tongue.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Mark 16:17-18
17 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
18 "they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
(NKJ)

My comments >> Some Churches teach that in verse 17 the tongues mentioned are a special language that only God knows. I don't believe that. I believe, that the tongues spoken about, is a person, miraculously, being able to talk in a foreign language. Some Churches teach that we must "take up serpents" in our hands to prove we are children of God. I don't believe this either. I remember well that one of the temptations that Satan tried to get Jesus to do was to tempt God by throwing Himself off of a cliff.

Richard,

Mark 16:9-20 is not considered to be part of the original NT because it is not in the earliest Greek manuscripts. There are various endings of parts of vv. 9-20 (see the ESV footnote prior to Mk 16:9).

Your language of 'I believe' provides your opinion and does not deal with the substance of the meaning of 'new tongues'.

Cor 12:4-11
4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.


Cor 12:28-31
28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles?
30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.
(NKJ)

My comments >> The "tongues" mentioned in the above scriptures are people speaking in a foreign nations language. There is nothing above to indicate that the tongues are a special language of angels that men were speaking.

There is not a word in these 2 passages from 1 Cor 12 that supports your view that 'tongues' here refers to 'foreign nations language'. Not a word. That's your imposition on the text.

We do know from 1 Cor 14:2 the nature of these tongues: 'The one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the spirit' (ESV). That's for the exercise of the gift of tongues in private and not in the church gathering.

Therefore the tongues of 1 Cor 12-14 deals with speaking to God and not in a foreign language of a nation.

We also know that when there are tongues with interpretation in the church gathering, it is a manifestation that has this impact: 'so that the church may be built up (1 Cor 14:5 ESV).

I found a number of other points in your long post that need examining or challenging. I don't have the time to do that now. However, your post came with a lot of your presuppositions, 'I believe', that do not establish anything with evidence but they assert your opinion.

Oz

 

[H. Richard]

I had my say. I see no reason to argue. I see that others disagree. That is okay with me. They are expressing their opinion as I did mine. Have they changed my opinion. No! Not at all.

 

[Angelina]

I have been talking with a few friends on-line and they have had some wonderful breakthrough's with the gift of tongues. One situation comes to mind. A friend was on a Christian chat forum and was speaking to a group of people in English about Jesus and his powerful work on the cross. There were many people in the chat room that night and lot's of folks from around the world are able to access it.

This particular night there was a guy there who did not speak English and he listened to this conversation. That night he asked Jesus into his life and the following day he spoke to my friend using an on-line translator. He thanked him for the testimony he shared about Jesus. My friend could not understand how he was able to interpret what had been said but the guy heard this testimony spoken in his own language which is the kind of thing that God does....just because.

Another testimony came up was a story of a woman who was speaking in tongues in her church when a gentleman got up in the pew in front of her and knelt down at the altar. Something that is not done often in that church. When asked later why he felt compelled to do that, he said that the woman behind him [who was speaking in tongues] spoke in ancient Arabic a language which he was familiar with. He knew God was speaking directly to him saying something like "come to the altar and repent of your sins and I will wash you clean. When asked about it, she said she had no idea what she was saying, she just felt moved to speak and out of her mouth came tongues.... :happy0141:

God is so Good!

 

[Sword]

I have asked in another thread and for some reason it is being ignored , which is clear by the post visitor count.

Question is short and simple. 1 Cor 14:5 I want you all to talk in tounges.
What does it mean?

Second question. 1Cor 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

Does this verse say tounges is not for all?

 

[justaname]

I have been talking with a few friends on-line and they have had some wonderful breakthrough's with the gift of tongues. One situation comes to mind. A friend was on a Christian chat forum and was speaking to a group of people in English about Jesus and his powerful work on the cross. There were many people in the chat room that night and lot's of folks from around the world are able to access it.

This particular night there was a guy there who did not speak English and he listened to this conversation. That night he asked Jesus into his life and the following day he spoke to my friend using an on-line translator. He thanked him for the testimony he shared about Jesus. My friend could not understand how he was able to interpret what had been said but the guy heard this testimony spoken in his own language which is the kind of thing that God does....just because.

Another testimony came up was a story of a woman who was speaking in tongues in her church when a gentleman got up in the pew in front of her and knelt down at the altar. Something that is not done often in that church. When asked later why he felt compelled to do that, he said that the woman behind him [who was speaking in tongues] spoke in ancient Arabic a language which he was familiar with. He knew God was speaking directly to him saying something like "come to the altar and repent of your sins and I will wash you clean. When asked about it, she said she had no idea what she was saying, she just felt moved to speak and out of her mouth came tongues.... :happy0141:

God is so Good!

Awesome testimony! Praise God.

 

[mjrhealth]

Simply put

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Act 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

As someone else pointed out, how could tongues be of any use to teh unbeleievr if they them selves could not understand. Tongues is for teh person doing the listening not the person doing teh speaking.

 

[Wormwood]

Richard,

Mark 16:9-20 is not considered to be part of the original NT because it is not in the earliest Greek manuscripts. There are various endings of parts of vv. 9-20 (see the ESV footnote prior to Mk 16:9).

Your language of 'I believe' provides your opinion and does not deal with the substance of the meaning of 'new tongues'.



There is not a word in these 2 passages from 1 Cor 12 that supports your view that 'tongues' here refers to 'foreign nations language'. Not a word. That's your imposition on the text.

We do know from 1 Cor 14:2 the nature of these tongues: 'The one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the spirit' (ESV). That's for the exercise of the gift of tongues in private and not in the church gathering.

Therefore the tongues of 1 Cor 12-14 deals with speaking to God and not in a foreign language of a nation.

We also know that when there are tongues with interpretation in the church gathering, it is a manifestation that has this impact: 'so that the church may be built up (1 Cor 14:5 ESV).

I found a number of other points in your long post that need examining or challenging. I don't have the time to do that now. However, your post came with a lot of your presuppositions, 'I believe', that do not establish anything with evidence but they assert your opinion.

Oz

Oz,

I have to disagree with you here. We see in Acts 2 that the "tongues" spoken there were "declaring the wonders of God." They were not preaching the Gospel in various languages, but rather, were praising and magnifying God in various languages. Thus, they were speaking to God, and not to men. Consider the following.

They were declaring the “wonders” of God. Their testimony was the language of praise. They may even have burst forth in song, for such can be a natural expression when one is filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18–19)
John B. Polhill, Acts, vol. 26, The New American Commentary (Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1992), 104.

What the disciples were actually celebrating in these other languages (tais hēmeterais glōssais) with their Spirit-inspired praise was ‘the mighty things of God’ (ta megaleia tou theou; cf. Dt. 11:2; Pss. 71:19 [LXX 70:19]; 106:21 [LXX 105:21]). From Peter’s sermon in vv. 16–36 we may judge that this included affirmations about Jesus and his exaltation, as well as thanksgiving for the gift of his Spirit, but such speech cannot simply be identified as missiological proclamation. Clearly there was a missiological implication of their praise, but this was not its primary function and purpose.
David G. Peterson, The Acts of the Apostles, The Pillar New Testament Commentary (Grand Rapids, MI; Nottingham, England: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2009), 137–138.

Contrary to a widely held view, the purpose of tongues on Pentecost was not to enable the apostles to proclaim the gospel in the languages of the many nationalities present. There was no evangelistic need for this; Greek was the common language shared by all the Jews present. The content of the tongues-speaking is described simply as “the mighty deeds of God” (Acts 2:11), and the result was exactly what God intended: not faith in Jesus, but wonder and amazement (Acts 2:6–7,12) that would cause them to believe and heed Peter’s sermon.
Jack Cottrell, The Faith Once for All: Bible Doctrine for Today (Joplin, MO: College Press Pub., 2002), 298.

Thus, the gift of tongues was the ability to praise God in rare or distant languages that acted as a sign to those from those locations. Of course, if no one was from one of those locations, the language would not be understood. In fact, the speaker would not themselves know what they were saying because they also did not know the language. The praise is directed at God, but the purpose of the gift was to act as a sign to unbelievers. Moreover, tongues was a sign of God's desire to reach all the nations. Just as God made diverse tongues to disperse people, so the Spirit used the miraculous gift of tongues to indicate God's desire to gather all nations to himself in Christ through the Holy Spirit.

In conclusion, there is no justification (in my mind) that Paul is referencing a different gift than what the narratives of Acts 2 and 10 describe. There is one gift of tongues mentioned in the NT. Paul uses the same word and gives no indication that there are different classifications of this gift. There is no rationale for suggesting that "speaking to men and not to God" refers to and individualized prayer language. Paul further describes this same gift as a "sign not to believers but to unbelievers." If Paul is referencing supernatural praise of God in languages never learned (as we see clearly described in Acts 2) then Paul's description of it being "speaking to....God" and "a sign to unbelievers" fits perfectly. There is no need to create an entirely new classification of tongues based on that one phrase from Paul. His description in his letter to the Corinthians matches perfectly with the narratives of Acts.

 

[Sword]

So even in this post it is very clear that yall disagree. Its also clear that some of you have got it wrong. And its clear what James said about not many should be teachers. But here we are with a bucket load of teachers all claiming they have the truth. Are you all ready to stand in front of God and tell Him how you are right when its impossible for you all to be right. In every other walk in life humans will go to extraordinarly lengths to prove them selves correct. Christ are no better. In fact there worse/ Unbelievers do it with out Chist indwelling. As I look through the forum and all the other forums. Its always the same. Everyone is a teacher and everyone thiks they are correct. This is called the blind leading the blind.

All of you teachers are kidding yourselves if you think you are ready to stand in that day. Every man even in front of an angle collapsed. You will be crying, am sorry Lord I never knew. I thought i knew. Lord I cant look at you. I never knew. Stop it. 40.000 Denominations and they all think they are right. Ooops.

 

[H. Richard]

In the past I heard a man named Robert Tilton on TV and he would let out a babel while speaking. It was said to be speaking in tongues but I taped it and what I learned is that it was the same practiced babel every time,.

In my opinion many use it to for a show that they are closer to God than others.

 

[Sword]

So if many use it for show does that make all the rest wrong?

H. Richard

 

[H. Richard]

So if many use it for show does that make all the rest wrong?
H. Richard

***
In my opinion, yes.

 

[FHII]

So even in this post it is very clear that yall disagree. Its also clear that some of you have got it wrong. And its clear what James said about not many should be teachers. But here we are with a bucket load of teachers all claiming they have the truth. Are you all ready to stand in front of God and tell Him how you are right when its impossible for you all to be right. In every other walk in life humans will go to extraordinarly lengths to prove them selves correct. Christ are no better. In fact there worse/ Unbelievers do it with out Chist indwelling. As I look through the forum and all the other forums. Its always the same. Everyone is a teacher and everyone thiks they are correct. This is called the blind leading the blind.

All of you teachers are kidding yourselves if you think you are ready to stand in that day. Every man even in front of an angle collapsed. You will be crying, am sorry Lord I never knew. I thought i knew. Lord I cant look at you. I never knew. Stop it. 40.000 Denominations and they all think they are right. Ooops.

When you asked the question you did, it seems reasonable to expect a variance of answers. If you did your homework on this board -- even reading the discussions for one hour - you would quickly realize we as a community don't agree on everything.

So when you asked about such a well known controversial topic... And just wanted "the teachers" to respond, were you expecting a solid "one mind and one accord" answer?

Or did you get exactly what you expected?

And from your analysis of the situation... We are all going to hell! Right?

You are a Troll

 

[mjrhealth]

Are you all ready to stand in front of God and tell Him how you are right when its impossible for you all to be right

And one day you will be standung in fronto of Jesus, and He just might say, 'you could of asked me" but you didnt!

We all ahve Christ, teh truth is in Him those who ask Rx those who do not have nothing. We can teach men nothing, that Job was given to teh Holy Spirit, denied by Men, a gift from God.

Mat_11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

No man can do tha only God through teh Holy Spirit

Mat_11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.