How could a believer ever desire to choose to return to the old life when "God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases Him" (Phl 2:13). He ensures that the believer will never again desire the old life!
Temporal Salvation?
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Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
I agree with Joseph below. People have free will. Just because a Christian walks away from his faith and practice does not mean that he had been artificial in believing and in practicing his Christianity formerly.
The great example of this is Israel in the OT. They had been walking with God, obeying His Law, and being blessed, as a nation, for doing so. This, of course, was intermittent, because it was never long before the seeds of unbelief were sown, and sin spread like leaven through the nation.
Apostasy resulted from the compromise that began with a few who mixed with pagans and adopted, without fear, their idolatry. It was done out of capitulation to the temptations of the flesh, of coveting materialism, lusting sexually, and craving power.
To fall isn't necessarily damnation, but it is apostasy, and leads to judgment. Those who apostacize, or fall away, can certainly be restored, if they respond to God's plea to them that they repent.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
When we adopt the new nature, or the new heart, that Christ gives us at salvation, we do naturally want the good, to please God, to be holy. But we live in the sinful flesh. It really depend on where we let our sights set upon.
If we look at the pleasures of this world, they will captivate us, and pull us away from our spirituality. The result is blindness, and perhaps doubt.
So Christians can most certainly fall. It does not, of course, mean they cannot be restored. The Prodigal Son is a good example.
If someone has the fear of the LORD in them, they will never walk away.
Jer 32:38, And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
Jer 32:39, And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
Jer 32:40, And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.
Psa 19:9, The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
I can't tell you how much my heart leapt for joy - the Fear of the Lord - something that is so beautiful - and something that is sadly lacking so much in much of the church these days! Oh that this was preached on more - and also sought after more by Christians!
One that stands out to me here is Judas. He walked with Jesus - saw all that Jesus did. I find it hard to believe that through this time, and through his own admission in Matthew 27:4 knew that he had sinned by betraying innocent blood - yet his decision in the end was to walk away.
Why someone would choose to walk away I don't understand (and personally never ever want to understand) - but I do believe the lack of the fear of the Lord would play a big part.
I'll be honest - I'm not a OSAS person, but I deeply respect the position (although I once didn't).
I grew up in a Pentecostal church. I saw many 'decisions' for Jesus, and the message "If you go home tonight and are hit by a bus, do you know where you're going? You can - if you make a decision tonight". I saw many decisions out of this.... and then saw many of these fall away. Some return to make 'recommittments' and then some of these fall away again.
My dear grandmother - incredible in the faith - and many others that I respect greatly seemed to believe in once saved always saved. It boggled my mind how on earth can they believe that these people who commit to Christ and believe - and then a year later decide they want to chase the lusts of the flesh and willingly practice and chase sin can still be saved. It was then that I sought to understand their viewpoint - not to agree with it but see how people I respected so much could have such a silly concept.
This brought me to "True and false conversions" by Ray Comfort. (A free mp3 from https://www.livingwaters.com/true-and-false-conversion/) If anyone is not a once saved always saved person and doesn't understand the concept - I highly recommend listening to that. This blew my mind. I never had the concept of a false convert - and it gave me a whole new look at false gospels and false conversions. I was so glad that I decided that I wanted to 'understand' the other side (even if it wasn't with the idea to agree with it).
It didn't win me over to 'Once saved always saved' - even now I have some reservations on OSAS, because I believe people have free will. There are some scriptures in the bible that seem to be exceptions to this, but I admit I'm not sure. Regardless of OSAS or not - my perspective on salvation has changed so significantly with the understanding - which then lead on to me understanding false gospel messages as well - which I'll be forever grateful for people who have taken the time to share these things.
My reason for believing in POTS....1 John 3:6 with 1 John 2:17.
That word "for ever" is the clincher for me.
That word "for ever" is the clincher for me.
Jesus Speaking: “Those That Believe in Me already have Eternal Life and shall NEVER come into Condemnation”
Personally , I never needed a “ License to Sin”.......I Managed to Sin quite well Without one .....I still do, as a matter of fact....
I suppose I could take God’s Grace and try to turn it into “ a License to Sin”—- After all, “ Where Sin abounds , Grace abounds that much more”......God said that— not me.Must have been a misprint.Surely ,God couldn’t actually “ mean” that!
God “ did” mean that......do you think it never dawned on Him that some Fool would try to take advantage of His Grace? Unfortunately for the Foolish among us , God Did not include a “ Get Away With It” License with the other one.We are Free to do whatever we want as Believers. That is because the Holy Spirit is constantly at work within us changing our “wants”. That “ Inside Of The Cup” Thing , remember ?
Maybe there is a Sinful “ want” out there that God has not changed yet..If you are stupid enough to think that you can indulge in that Sin because you are “ under Grace”, go ahead and have at it.....You will not lose your Salvation, because yes, it is True —- You ARE under Grace, But The Bad News is God has a “ WoodShed” , and He us not reluctant to use it on Foolish Children who think that they can “ Sin and get by with it”.
On the Day Of Judgement,Believers will be at the Bema Seat Of Jesus Getting there Rewards....Some are going to feel great—- others may be standing there, fully Saved, but their Butts might be still stinging a little from the Discipline their Father had to hand out to them in their Earthly Existence.Saved But Stupid.There’s lots of it out there.I know this from first-Hand experience.....Don’t tempt God....
A present tense belief, as is in the passage you allude to, is the condition of a present tense Eternal Life. No present tense faith, not present tense Eternal Life!
Actually, the term given is everlasting life...and if you have it in the present tense, if it can come to an end it wasn't everlasting in the first place.
Of course, life is defined as a holy walk to a certain extent...
So if someone is not living holy, it is questionable as to whether they have salvation or not... @Blood Bought 1953.
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mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Salvation is not probation. Eternal life is not temporary life. Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
The passage is conditional. Eternal Life has no beginning... it's Eternal... Is that the logic you use? If it can be gained, the condition must be present to have it presently. Jesus sets the condition, and I would not suggest correcting Him by your human concept of Eternal to void it.
Hi, and amen! What an oxymoron, e.g. temporarily possessing eternal life?!
What an oxymoron, saying that you can gain possession of an Eternal Pearl in time, and that just because you obtained it, you could never lose it or throw it away!
Go ahead, dismiss the condition Jesus set, and only believe the half of Scripture that you like!
And why would God give salvation to one He knows is not going to want to keep it!
The result will be chastening, IF you are a true son. If you are not chastened, you are not a true son.
When we were children, we had parents who chastened us as they thought good. But God chastens us "for our good". Not just what someone thinks is good, no, God chastens us for our good. His chastening is effective.
You can't get there from here.
You cannot say that the true child of God might wander away into renewed spiritual death. Because if you do, then you are stuck with saying that God either DOES NOT chasten His true children, or that His chastening IS NOT effective.
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
IF God is chastening you, then it WILL yield the peaceable fruit of righteousness.
The simplicity of this passage is that if you are a true son, you will be chastened, and that chastening will be effective.
He who began a good work in you will complete it UNTIL the day of Christ Jesus.
So where is there room for failure? If you have been redeemed by your Creator . . . rejoice evermore!
Much love!
No it does not. It is a release from the power of sin.
Believing that sin and the devil still hold the power of death over you if you behave badly takes your eyes to your behavior, you must monitor yourself to make sure you are in the right.
Believing that we have passed from death into life, and that now nothing can separate us from God's love, I'm free to fix my eyes solely on Jesus, with a full release from all that ever holds me back from Him, because that's what He does.
Much love!
Behold
Well-Known Member
God does not require you to stay in "faith" to keep you.
Faith does not save you.
God saved you THROUGH your Faith., once....= born again.
Faith is not the savior.
JESUS is the savior. (God).
God requires that you give Him your faith, and He accepts it, and you are born again.
That forever settles your salvation.
Being born again is proof you have faith that God accepted, and you became His son.
This "sonship" is not kept by you keeping faith, or living a good life.... as this sonship is completed by GOD the moment you are born again.
If later you become a really bad Christian, you are still a Christian, as you are not become one by being Good, but you became one because God accepted you faith ONCE, and you became born again, forever.
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