Temporal Salvation?

[farouk]

Jesus Speaking: “Those That Believe in Me already have Eternal Life and shall NEVER come into Condemnation”

John's First Epistle also has much material about assurance of eternal life for the true believer.

 

[Behold]

John's First Epistle also has much material about assurance of eternal life for the true believer.

John clearly teaches that Jesus IS HIMSELF "eternal life", and that we can KNOW we have Eternal LIFE.
We know it, because Eternal LIFE< who IS JESUS....is IN US, and we are "in Christ".
Jesus said of Himself that He is "the resurrection and THE LIFE".

Also....John 14:6

 

[farouk]

John clearly teaches that Jesus IS HIMSELF "eternal life", and that we can KNOW we have Eternal LIFE.
We know it, because Eternal LIFE< who IS JESUS....is IN US, and we are "in Christ".
Jesus said of Himself that He is "the resurrection and THE LIFE".

Also....John 14:6

@Behold John 14.6 such as great, memorable verse there...

 

[Renniks]

If later you become a really bad Christian, you are still a Christian, as you are not become one by being Good, but you became one because God accepted you faith

A really bad Christian still has faith or he isn't a Christian any longer. Believe me I'm tempted to believe this way, it would be very comforting to think that my loved ones who were once true believers could not stray from the fold. But the scriptures say many leave the Faith.

 

[farouk]

A really bad Christian still has faith or he isn't a Christian any longer. Believe me I'm tempted to believe this way, it would be very comforting to think that my loved ones who were once true believers could not stray from the fold. But the scriptures say many leave the Faith.

I do think Romans 8.38-39 shows that the true believer will be preserved.

 

[justbyfaith]

No it does not. It is a release from the power of sin.

Believing that sin and the devil still hold the power of death over you if you behave badly takes your eyes to your behavior, you must monitor yourself to make sure you are in the right.

Believing that we have passed from death into life, and that now nothing can separate us from God's love, I'm free to fix my eyes solely on Jesus, with a full release from all that ever holds me back from Him, because that's what He does.

Much love!

I think that I agree with you to a certain extent.

But I would say that the one who is truly born again is sealed by the Holy Spirit and is motivated by Him to walk in holy behaviour.

If someone ceases to walk in holy behaviour, it is a sign that they were never a sheep but were instead a dog or swine...because they returned to their vomit or their wallowing in the mire.

Faith does not save you.

We are indeed saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 5:1-2).

If later you become a really bad Christian, you are still a Christian,

If you cease to have faith, Jesus is faithful, He cannot deny Himself.

However, there is also Romans 11:20-22 to consider.

I do believe that genuine faith will produce holiness in a believer's life; and that if someone ceases to walk holy, it has to do with a problem with their faith.

 

[marks]

But I would say that the one who is truly born again is sealed by the Holy Spirit and is motivated by Him to walk in holy behaviour.

And I don't mean to say that we pay no attention to what we are doing. But I do mean to say that the attention we pay is not to whether I did this sin or that sin, but whether I've acted in faith, and in love.

And yes, I quite agree, the Holy Spirit in us will be training us to walk in both.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

However, there is also Romans 11:20-22 to consider.

Branches who are broken off were never saved to begin with...
Also, be really careful with symbolic verses, as many people are faith destroyed by just a few symbolic verses that they took literally and once that stronghold in the mind began, the Devil will root it and you'll never get it out of them.
The "branches that are burned" heretics are always the "abide" heretics.
They are self savors...
They ruin Christian forums.
They ruin other Believers.
They are the total enemy of a New Believer, and they are some of the Devil's best workers.

 

[justbyfaith]

Branches who are broken off were never saved to begin with...

But they probably thought they were (being connected to the olive tree and all...)

 

[Behold]

But they probably thought they were (being connected to the olive tree and all...)

And the seed that was sown on a certain ground thought it could grow.

so, its not just "grafted" and it not just good seed sown on ground.

It has to be watered by faith, and it has to be born again..

There were followers of Jesus who are told to "depart, i never knew you".. and they said they did works in "Jesus" name"...and they did.
= They are in hell.
Why?
because they were grafted in but not born again., they were seeds sown ,but had no root.

Consider that a tree has dead limbs.
Why? = Because the SAP, the HOLY SPIRIT< is not in those LIMBS even tho those Dead LIMBS are tree limbs. (grafted in)

 

[justbyfaith]

And the seed that was sown on a certain ground thought it could grow.

so, its not just "grafted" and it not just good seed sown on ground.

It has to be watered by faith, and it has to be born again..

There were followers of Jesus who are told to "depart, i never knew you".. and they said they did works in "Jesus" name"...and they did.
= They are in hell.
Why?
because they were grafted in but not born again., they were seeds sown ,but had no root.

Consider that a tree has dead limbs.
Why? = Because the SAP, the HOLY SPIRIT< is not in those LIMBS even tho those Dead LIMBS are tree limbs. (grafted in)

And what I am saying is that anyone can think they are saved (because they have a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith) but really they are not...which will be evidenced by the fact that they will fall away when tested (Luke 8:13).

 

[Renniks]

But they probably thought they were (being connected to the olive tree and all...)

That's silly. Can't be broken off if never connected.

 

[justbyfaith]

That's silly. Can't be broken off if never connected.

No kidding!

 

[bbyrd009]

The most understandable and encouraging attribute concerning salvation is that of its permanency, after all, it is called “eternal salvation” (Heb 5:9). What part of salvation is temporary, seeing that one of the meanings of redemption is that of being saved from “eternal damnation” (Mar 3:29). Is it a sensible truism that one can be eternally saved and then not eternally saved? Thus being temporarily saved from “everlasting punishment” (Mat 25:46) is clearly a concept of an oxymoron?

wadr i think you are maybe taking some concepts a bit too literally, after having arrived at an interpretation of "eternal" as "forever" maybe?
There is only One Immortal...

 

[Netchaplain]

wadr i think you are maybe taking some concepts a bit too literally, after having arrived at an interpretation of "eternal" as "forever" maybe?
There is only One Immortal...

Hi! Appreciate your reply but I don't fully understand it.

 

[bbyrd009]

Hi! Appreciate your reply but I don't fully understand it.

well basically does eternal mean forever? And @ "everlasting punishment," is it possible that what was meant is more like "that behavior will always incur punishment" or something similar? Why couldnt "eternal salvation" mean "you will always get temporarily saved, being as how life-threatening situations are always temporary?" but i would want to review the vv you had in mind anyway. I just mean to suggest the possibility that they are easily misconscrewed ok

 

[bbyrd009]

A present tense belief, as is in the passage you allude to, is the condition of a present tense Eternal Life. No present tense faith, not present tense Eternal Life!

yet Death More Abundantly is obviously the default "the faith" for Christians, despite the many, many vv that state plainly or otherwise that that is not ever going to happen! And just try to have a discussion on those vv lol, i mean its like comedy, divine or something.

"Jesus came and died for me so that i could have eternal life in heaven with Him forever"

"you think? How might you square that with
No son of man may die for another's sins
No one has ever gone up to heaven
There is only One Immortal?"

"Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying"

 

[bbyrd009]

Actually, the term given is everlasting life...and if you have it in the present tense, if it can come to an end it wasn't everlasting in the first place.

he said with unwavering confidence so ok jbf i understand that you cant or wont be reached right now ok, but actually wisdom is surely being hidden from the wise--that would be the ppl who say "thatisthis and thisisthat" prolly, like you are doing right now?

Bc actually a spiritual life is what is in view there, surely, and there are many, many vv that you will currently not confront that make that pretty plain imo. But since quoting them results in crickets i would ask you about this "if" that you seem so sure of, why couldnt it be "everlasting" in your son, for instance? Or an "everlasting" bad translation even? I would invite you to go and look with me but i am pretty sure what we're gonna find lol

i know you are, literally, dying to get your ego into heaven after you have died ok jbf, and i can certainly relate. But it almost surely is not going to happen, as Scripture reveals to anyone who spends any time in it, regardless of how much i might wish it didnt sometimes still. Pls contemplate the possibility that you are being fooled by your desires, and that Give me some of that red stew, for I am famished unto death! is possibly you ok.

So if someone is not living holy, it is questionable as to whether they have salvation or not... @Blood Bought 1953.

horse shit, jbf, sorry, but thats just some pious clean outside of the cup yack that you bought for your 10%, is what that is. That is like Pentecostal Puke, or Methodist Muck, or either Catholic Crap i dunno, its all Death More Abundantly to me so i get confused what yall even arguing about most of the time, irrelevant bullshit is what it is
Understand why the pimps and hos are beating you in

i guess i need to go, best of luck to you ok, i know you are a good hearted guy
best wishes to all of you, dint mean to be offensive but jesus already
i mean what offends you more?

 

[Joseph77]

Can you choose to be "unborn" from your mother?

Can you choose to (censored description of taking one's own life) (trying not to give any thoughts to anyone to harm themselves) .

Remember that if someone does not trust Jesus, they have not life ?

 

[DPMartin]

The most understandable and encouraging attribute concerning salvation is that of its permanency, after all, it is called “eternal salvation” (Heb 5:9). What part of salvation is temporary, seeing that one of the meanings of redemption is that of being saved from “eternal damnation” (Mar 3:29). Is it a sensible truism that one can be eternally saved and then not eternally saved? Thus being temporarily saved from “everlasting punishment” (Mat 25:46) is clearly a concept of an oxymoron?

Joh 10:27　 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:　
Joh 10:28　 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.　
Joh 10:29　 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.　
Joh 10:30　 I and my Father are one.