Temporal Salvation?

[Joseph77]

Not if you do not trust Jesus. (as the Father Says, in Scripture)

 

[Netchaplain]

well basically does eternal mean forever?

I wouldn't know how to understand it any other way concerning eternal life and eternal death ("second death").

And @ "everlasting punishment," is it possible that what was meant is more like "that behavior will always incur punishment" or something similar? Why couldnt "eternal salvation" mean "you will always get temporarily saved, being as how life-threatening situations are always temporary?" but i would want to review the vv you had in mind anyway. I just mean to suggest the possibility that they are easily misconscrewed ok

That's ok, but I'm not understanding this either to make a reply. Sorry and keep trying, I'll get there.

 

[CharismaticLady]

John clearly teaches that Jesus IS HIMSELF "eternal life", and that we can KNOW we have Eternal LIFE.
We know it, because Eternal LIFE< who IS JESUS....is IN US, and we are "in Christ".
Jesus said of Himself that He is "the resurrection and THE LIFE".

Also....John 14:6

We must make sure that we are actually abiding in Him, and He is actually IN us.

1 John 3:23-24
23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

You see the Spirit is involved. That means we do not keep the commandments of Jesus stated in our own power, but through the power of the Spirit indwelling us.

 

[justbyfaith]

Being reviled by unbelievers is par for the course if you are going to be a good minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Candidus]

Joh 10:27　 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:　
Joh 10:28　 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.　
Joh 10:29　 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.　
Joh 10:30　 I and my Father are one.　

Who shall not be plucked out of the hand of Jesus? The Sheep!
Who cannot be plucked out of the Father's hand?" The Sheep!

Who is a Sheep? Jesus tells us! Only the one who present tense hears and present tense follows Him! If you cease to listen and follow, you are not a Sheep! That is what Jesus said!

Quite simple! To say that someone that is no longer hearing and following shall not be plucked out of the hands of Jesus or the Father is not what Jesus said!

 

[Joseph77]

Just like if someone of their own free will and volition decides not to trust in Jesus any more -

as those who trust not Jesus have not life, they do not make it.

 

[justbyfaith]

Who shall not be plucked out of the hand of Jesus? The Sheep!
Who cannot be plucked out of the Father's hand?" The Sheep!

Who is a Sheep? Jesus tells us! Only the one who present tense hears and present tense follows Him! If you cease to listen and follow, you are not a Sheep! That is what Jesus said!

Quite simple! To say that someone that is no longer hearing and following shall not be plucked out of the hands of Jesus or the Father is not what Jesus said!

The one who does the will of the Lord will abide for ever (1 John 2:17).

 

[Behold]

We must make sure that we are actually abiding in Him, and He is actually IN us.

1 John 3:23-24
23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

You see the Spirit is involved. That means we do not keep the commandments of Jesus stated in our own power, but through the power of the Spirit indwelling us.

Being Born Again is the only real proof that we are In Christ.

Its true that we are to recognize other believer's by their love for other believers, but, there is also reality.
The reality is, born again people are not always loving.
In fact on a Forum, "loving others" is rarely seen or shown.
Its also true that the Devil understands that we the believer's tend to look for a "loving" or kind person, to be the authentic, and So the Devil will always come as a loving kind person who is always talking about the need for this as proof.
He's a clever devil.
Christian "fruit" can be faked.
Look instead for right believing vs heresy, and find your faith filled vs your self righteous filled.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Being Born Again is the only real proof that we are In Christ.

Its true that we are to recognize other believer's by their love for other believers, but, there is also reality.
The reality is, born again people are not always loving.
In fact on a Forum, "loving others" is rarely seen or shown.
Its also true that the Devil understands that we the believer's tend to look for a "loving" or kind person, to be the authentic, and So the Devil will always come as a loving kind person who is always talking about the need for this as proof.
He's a clever devil.
Christian "fruit" can be faked.
Look instead for right believing vs heresy, and find your faith filled vs your self righteous filled.

Also look to see if the power of God is moving in their life. Only then can you trust that the Spirit is teaching them the true meaning of His word. BTW, nothing in our New Covenant has ceased, including the gifts of the Spirit.

 

[bbyrd009]

I wouldn't know how to understand it any other way concerning eternal

Strong's Greek: 166. αἰώνιος (aiónios) -- agelong, eternal
Strong's Greek: 165. αἰών (aión) -- a space of time, an age

 

[DPMartin]

Who shall not be plucked out of the hand of Jesus? The Sheep!
Who cannot be plucked out of the Father's hand?" The Sheep!

Who is a Sheep? Jesus tells us! Only the one who present tense hears and present tense follows Him! If you cease to listen and follow, you are not a Sheep! That is what Jesus said!

Quite simple! To say that someone that is no longer hearing and following shall not be plucked out of the hands of Jesus or the Father is not what Jesus said!

but you are paying attention to what you think and not what Jesus said:


Joh 10:26　 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.　
Joh 10:27　 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:　

hence if one hears His Voice then Jesus knows them, and they follow Him, but it seems you are included with "ye believe not" because you don't trust that God can keep you despite yourself.

look at what the Jews have been through, and they still are children of Israel that has return to the land given them.

 

[justbyfaith]

Christian "fruit" can be faked.
Look instead for right believing vs heresy, and find your faith filled vs your self righteous filled.

This is what Jesus said on the matter:

Mat 7:15, Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16, Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17, Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18, A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19, Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20, Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Luk 6:43, For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Luk 6:44, For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
Luk 6:45, A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Of course you are also right in this, @Behold:

If someone can be shown to be contradicting something in holy scripture, then they are teaching false doctrine and ought not to be believed.

 

[Behold]

Also look to see if the power of God is moving in their life. Only then can you trust that the Spirit is teaching them the true meaning of His word. BTW, nothing in our New Covenant has ceased, including the gifts of the Spirit.

"if the power of God is moving in their lives"..

This is what Jesus said on the matter:

Mat 7:15, Beware of false prophets,

You are under the delusion that if you accuse me falsely, this is "proof".

Guess again.

 

[justbyfaith]

"if the power of God is moving in their lives"..


You are under the delusion that if you accuse me falsely, this is "proof".

Guess again.

Where did I ever accuse you falsely?

You are hallucinating.

 

[Davy]

The most understandable and encouraging attribute concerning salvation is that of its permanency, after all, it is called “eternal salvation” (Heb 5:9). What part of salvation is temporary, seeing that one of the meanings of redemption is that of being saved from “eternal damnation” (Mar 3:29). Is it a sensible truism that one can be eternally saved and then not eternally saved? Thus being temporarily saved from “everlasting punishment” (Mat 25:46) is clearly a concept of an oxymoron?

No such thing as temporary Salvation, but there is such a thing as a believer that once believed on Christ and then rejects... their Salvation. You should read what Paul said in Hebrews 6 and believe it. It is impossible for one who has tasted the heavenly gifts of the world to come IF they should fall away and try to renew.

But man's doctrines of the Hyper-Grace movement says that is impossible, that 'once saved, always saved'. That is man's doctrine, not God's Word. A believer CAN turn away from the Faith and lose their Salvation, which is what Paul is showing in Hebrews 6.

 

[justbyfaith]

@Davy,

If you read the whole chapter in Hebrews 6, really study it...you will come to the same conclusion that I have...that Jesus is an anchor for the soul and is entered within the veil to make intercession for us...so if we cling to Jesus, we cannot lose our salvation no matter how hard the devil tries to take it away from us. There are two immutable things that testify that we cannot lose our salvation. 1) It is impossible for God to lie; and, 2) God confirmed it by an oath.

 

[Netchaplain]

No such thing as temporary Salvation, but there is such a thing as a believer that once believed on Christ and then rejects... their Salvation. You should read what Paul said in Hebrews 6 and believe it. It is impossible for one who has tasted the heavenly gifts of the world to come IF they should fall away and try to renew.

Hi, and it's my understanding (and among credible commentators) that Heb 6:4-6 is a supposition, "that it is impossible for those who were once enlightened . . . if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh." The sense is not that any would do this but if they could it would require a re-sacrifice of Christ--an impossibility.

 

[mailmandan]

but you are paying attention to what you think and not what Jesus said:

Joh 10:26　But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.　
Joh 10:27　My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

We see the contrast here. Those who believe not are not His sheep. John 10:27 - My sheep hear My voice, (not some of them hear My voice and some of them don't hear My voice) and I know them, (not some of them I know and some of them I don't know) and they follow Me. (not some of them follow me and some of them don't follow me) 28 And I give them eternal life, (not some of them I give eternal life and some of them I don't give eternal life) and they shall never perish; (not some of them will never perish and some of them will perish) neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. (not some of them will never be snatched out of my hand and some of them will be snatched out of my hand)

 

[Candidus]

The one who does the will of the Lord will abide for ever (1 John 2:17).

Amen! Are you [present tense] doing the will of God?

Are you not loving the world and doing as God commanded? If so, if you are presently doing so, right now, this moment, will abide [present tense] forever as long as they continue to presently do so.

 

[Candidus]

but you are paying attention to what you think and not what Jesus said:


Joh 10:26　 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.　
Joh 10:27　 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:　

hence if one hears His Voice then Jesus knows them, and they follow Him, but it seems you are included with "ye believe not" because you don't trust that God can keep you despite yourself.

look at what the Jews have been through, and they still are children of Israel that has return to the land given them.

Jesus said... My sheep hear [present tense]my voice, and I know them, and they follow [present tense]me:

Are you paying attention? Jesus defines what a Sheep is! Jesus tells us what He promises the Sheep! Being a Sheep is conditional, for they is what Jesus said! No emphasis on the promises of God, or appealing to Israel will undo, modify, void, or exempt anyone from the condition that Jesus stated clearly and emphatically!

Using Israel as an example only shows that God did not forsake His Covenant with them. It does not mean that they cannot forsake their Covenant with God! "But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED." That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants."

Are you paying attention?