The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[M3n0r4h]

You have to read 1 John 3 and all its verses in context.

8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

You may be shocked to know that 1 John 1:9 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
is the same as Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Both verses are to become a Christian and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

1 John 1:9 is not a get out of jail free card in a demonic cycle of sin, repent, sin, repent, sin, repent, sin, repent ad infinitum as most denominations teach. I believe the Word, not denominations of man.

contrary to modern mainstream teachings, sanctification is a process.

James 3:2 makes clear that we all stumble often. we then confess and pray for help, we repent more and more all the time of old habits and possibly even addictions via assistance of the Holy Spirit.

we work our way gradually more and more toward the perfection spoken of in Matt. 5:48 (possibly more of a spiritual perfection of the heart than man's idea of never ever stumbling)

Jesus' blood is our advocate with the Father.

but that doesn't mean we "get saved" and then continue to live as we've always lived with some spiritual pass to sinning.

what is the Biblical definition of sin?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

contrary to modern mainstream teachings, sanctification is a process.

James 3:2 makes clear that we all stumble often. we then confess and pray for help, we repent more and more all the time of old habits and possibly even addictions via assistance of the Holy Spirit.

we work our way gradually more and more toward the perfection spoken of in Matt. 5:48 (possibly more of a spiritual perfection of the heart than man's idea of never ever stumbling)

Jesus' blood is our advocate with the Father.

but that doesn't mean we "get saved" and then continue to live as we've always lived with some spiritual pass to sinning.

what is the Biblical definition of sin?

We are sanctified at the same time we are justified - cleansed of all unrighteousness. Sanctification - overcoming sin - is incorrect. It is being set apart. We are sinless, but not perfect. The process towards perfection has to do with the maturing of all the fruit of the Spirit and that process is called glorification, not sanctification. It is becoming like Christ.

There are two types of sin and two definitions.
What Jesus removes first is the category of sins unto death - willful sins against the Law of God. A born again Christian cannot commit a sin unto death. We have gone from death to eternal life.
The other type of sin are imperfections of behavior of the fruit of the Spirit. Immature fruit. That type of sin we overcome by maturing in all the fruit with the help of Jesus, our vine-keeper John 15. That type of sin is sin not unto death.

1 John 5:16-17
16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death (LIKE MURDER), he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

 

[Jim B]

well, when your verses exist and my verses exist, the Christian must make a decision for themselves.

if I want to get as close to Jesus as possible, what's wrong with that?

Jesus even says 'if you love Me, keep the Commandments.'

if I want to emulate Christ, because I love Him and all that He stands for, what's wrong with that?

the Bible says we are to live as Christ lived.

Christ obeyed all 10 Commandments.

Christ says those who obey the 10 Commandments are those who He will indwell.

again, if the texts that you are presenting exist in scripture right along side the texts that I am presenting, one must find a way to make them coincide.

There is no reconciliation between the old covenant and the new covenant. That is why there are two covenants. The old covenant does not apply to Christians, because it was entirely fulfilled by Jesus Christ. Nobody can be under both covenants!

John 14:15-17, “If you love me, keep my commands. [NOT the Old Testament.] And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you."

UJohn 14:25-27, “All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. [NOT the OT law!] Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid." [my emphasis added]

The Holy Spirit will teach Christians all things, removing the function of the OT law.

Writing that "Christ says those who obey the 10 Commandments are those who He will indwell" has no Scriptural basis. In fact, it is denying the salvific work of the Lord!

 

[M3n0r4h]

We are sanctified at the same time we are justified - cleansed of all unrighteousness. Sanctification - overcoming sin - is incorrect. It is being set apart. We are sinless, but not perfect. The process towards perfection has to do with the maturing of all the fruit of the Spirit and that process is called glorification, not sanctification. It is becoming like Christ.

There are two types of sin and two definitions.
What Jesus removes first is the category of sins unto death - willful sins against the Law of God. A born again Christian cannot commit a sin unto death. We have gone from death to eternal life.
The other type of sin are imperfections of behavior of the fruit of the Spirit. Immature fruit. That type of sin we overcome by maturing in all the fruit with the help of Jesus, our vine-keeper John 15. That type of sin is sin not unto death.

1 John 5:16-17
16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death (LIKE MURDER), he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

sanctification is God separating us to Himself.

most people who are separated from old circles of friends who live in daily habitual sin, or from jobs, family members, etc., are not separated over night.

it is a process. just as I said.

being separated from our old ways, our old habits, old sins/addictions, etc., is a process.

it is an absolute lie that we are converted to perfection over night simply by "getting saved", i.e. saying a prayer, making a profession, or even getting baptized.

it takes time, but it is not even possible without being empowered, inspired and enabled by God's Spirit.

nobody has even the most basic desire for God unless He gives that to them.

no man can come to Christ unless God draws him.
John 6:44

 

[M3n0r4h]

There is no reconciliation between the old covenant and the new covenant. That is why there are two covenants. The old covenant does not apply to Christians, because it was entirely fulfilled by Jesus Christ. Nobody can be under both covenants!

John 14:15-17, “If you love me, keep my commands. [NOT the Old Testament.] And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you."

UJohn 14:25-27, “All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. [NOT the OT law!] Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid." [my emphasis added]

The Holy Spirit will teach Christians all things, removing the function of the OT law.

Writing that "Christ says those who obey the 10 Commandments are those who He will indwell" has no Scriptural basis. In fact, it is denying the salvific work of the Lord!

you are correct in spotty places, here and there.

but to say that the OT has no application to the Christian is downright obnoxious.

the only difference between the Old and New Covenant is the Spirit indwelling us. and He does so to enable us to do what?

to obey the OT 10 Commandments.

it is a pattern that is seen by many who study this particular topic that the Sabbath Commandment is the only one anybody has a real problem with.

it is the most hated thing in the Bible by God's enemies, and by modern professed Christians who hate the idea of the Bible having any rules in it that pertain to them.

interestingly, it is one of the most cherished things to God as it is the day that He has set aside forever for His most beloved to spend very special time in communion with Him. it is the same day that all those who have ever loved God have honored and that's what makes it eternally sacred. God would never change that day as it is the day that has always been special to Him throughout all of history, and it will be special to Him, and to all those who continue to seek and love Him, 'til the end of time.

Jesus kept it. all of His disciples kept it and all those who truly love and honor Him today keep it.

the rest of the 10 Commandments are obvious moral Laws.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

sanctification is God separating us to Himself.

most people who are separated from old circles of friends who live in daily habitual sin, or from jobs, family members, etc., are not separated over night.

it is a process. just as I said.

being separated from our old ways, our old habits, old sins/addictions, etc., is a process.

it is an absolute lie that we are converted to perfection over night simply by "getting saved", i.e. saying a prayer, making a profession, or even getting baptized.

it takes time, but it is not even possible without being empowered, inspired and enabled by God's Spirit.

nobody has even the most basic desire for God unless He gives that to them.

no man can come to Christ unless God draws him.
John 6:44

We are separated unto God day one! It is not a process. Our nature is cleansed of of sin and all unrighteousness as soon as we repent and justified.

M, there IS a process, but it is not called sanctification. it is called glorification. Do you see sanctification in this list? No because it is hidden in justification.

Romans 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Don't put words in my mouth and say it is a lie. Here is a copy and paste of what I DID SAY.

We are sinless, but not perfect. The process towards perfection has to do with the maturing of all the fruit of the Spirit and that process is called glorification, not sanctification. It is becoming like Christ.

 

[ButterflyJones]

The 10 commandments were only given to the Jews, (Deuteronomy 5:2-3) therefore non-Jews/Gentiles were excluded from that "covenants of promise" (Ephesians 2:12). The Jews having their own law given them and not the Gentiles created a "middle wall of partition" that separated Jews from Gentiles (Ephesians 2:14). Yet Christ broke down that middle wall of partition. Christ took away ALL the OT law including the 10 commandments thereby making Jew and Gentile "both one" under His NT...."that he might reconcile both unto God in one body (church)" (Ephesians 2:16). Therefore NONE of the OT law is active or in effect today including the 10 commandments. Lying, stealing, adultery. murder, etc are sinful for us today NOT because the 10 commandments says they are wrong but because Christ's NT says they are wrong....Christians follow Christ, not Moses. The OT condemned the overt, physical act of adultery whereas Christ's NT also condemns the lusting in the heart. Christians follow the NT laws not the OT laws and that's why Christians met on the first day of the week and not the 7th day/Sabbath (Acts 20:7).

OT Jews followed God's laws.They were not the laws Moses laid out. Moses delivered God's laws to the people. No one followed Moses as one would follow God.

 

[M3n0r4h]

OT Jews followed God's laws.They were not the laws Moses laid out. Moses delivered God's laws to the people. No one followed Moses as one would follow God.

God spoke the 10 Commandments out loud to those who were present at Sinai, and they were not just Israelites present.

Deut. 29:10-11 and 14-15

the 10 Commandments were specifically the only Commandments that God ever spoke aloud upon the earth.

not sure if we're differing, but just clarifying.

one might consider the jews of Jesus' day to be OT jews, but they did not follow the 10 Commandments at all; they taught them, but they did not obey them.

Matt. 23:1-3

Jesus obeyed them implicitly and taught them as well.

John 15:10

 

[M3n0r4h]

We are separated unto God day one! It is not a process. Our nature is cleansed of of sin and all unrighteousness as soon as we repent and justified.

M, there IS a process, but it is not called sanctification. it is called glorification. Do you see sanctification in this list? No because it is hidden in justification.

Romans 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Don't put words in my mouth and say it is a lie. Here is a copy and paste of what I DID SAY.

We are sinless, but not perfect. The process towards perfection has to do with the maturing of all the fruit of the Spirit and that process is called glorification, not sanctification. It is becoming like Christ.

I wholeheartedly disagree and the Bible fully backs me up.

but I did not say that YOU were a liar. it is a common modern lie, of many churches, that we are made perfect immediately upon getting saved.

that is just absolute nonsense and those who hold to that are not even being reasonable.

anybody that has ever attended a church and gotten to know a good number of folks there will agree that the vast majority are not changed much from their previous condition, and they certainly are not perfected spiritually.

if it helps you sleep at night to believe that modern myth, go right ahead.

there are far more professed Christians that walk away from the faith entirely within weeks, months or years than those who remain in church; and of those who remain in the church, the majority don't have any real grasp at all of their Bible.

again, if you wish to believe that's not the case, go right ahead, but even the Bible is clear that the majority of God's professed people are destroyed for lack of knowledge due to their failure to develop a love for the Truth. they are preached lies to on a daily basis and none of them in the churches today have any Holy Spirit discernment to set off any alarm bells that what they are hearing is not Truth.

Hosea 4:6
2 Thess. 2:10-11

 

[ButterflyJones]

We are separated unto God day one! It is not a process. Our nature is cleansed of of sin and all unrighteousness as soon as we repent and justified.

M, there IS a process, but it is not called sanctification. it is called glorification. Do you see sanctification in this list? No because it is hidden in justification.

Romans 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Don't put words in my mouth and say it is a lie. Here is a copy and paste of what I DID SAY.

We are sinless, but not perfect. The process towards perfection has to do with the maturing of all the fruit of the Spirit and that process is called glorification, not sanctification. It is becoming like Christ.

And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Corinthians 6:11

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I wholeheartedly disagree and the Bible fully backs me up.

but I did not say that YOU were a liar. it is a common modern lie, of many churches, that we are made perfect immediately upon getting saved.

that is just absolute nonsense and those who hold to that are not even being reasonable.

anybody that has ever attended a church and gotten to know a good number of folks there will agree that the vast majority are not changed much from their previous condition, and they certainly are not perfected spiritually.

if it helps you sleep at night to believe that modern myth, go right ahead.

there are far more professed Christians that walk away from the faith entirely within weeks, months or years than those who remain in church; and of those who remain in the church, the majority don't have any real grasp at all of their Bible.

again, if you wish to believe that's not the case, go right ahead, but even the Bible is clear that the majority of God's professed people are destroyed for lack of knowledge due to their failure to develop a love for the Truth. they are preached lies to on a daily basis and none of them in the churches today have any Holy Spirit discernment to set off any alarm bells that what they are hearing is not Truth.

Hosea 4:6
2 Thess. 2:10-11

I can't believe you don't know the difference between the words sinlessness and perfection. Twice I have said that we are not made perfect day one, and this is the second time you've wrongly accused me.

We are sinless when Jesus takes away our willful lawless sins out of our nature. Do you believe the Scriptures, or your life experience? Please take note that the life experience of a born again Christian is totally different than someone who is still in the flesh whether they go to church or not. Many Christians are not saved.

1 John 3:4-5, 9
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Corinthians 6:11

Yes, justification and sanctification are at the same time - DAY ONE. Thanks for the verse. I also saw that in the Bible sanctified was usually past tense. That is why I asked God, "if sanctification is not the name of the life process we go through, what is? And immediately He spoke and said, "glorification." And then the knowledge of becoming Christ like and God like. We go from glory to glory. That is when I started noticing it all through Scripture. I don't know how I missed it. I guess once you hear a false doctrine it sticks until you ask the right questions against it.

 

[dad]

contrary to modern mainstream teachings, sanctification is a process.

James 3:2 makes clear that we all stumble often. we then confess and pray for help, we repent more and more all the time of old habits and possibly even addictions via assistance of the Holy Spirit.

we work our way gradually more and more toward the perfection spoken of in Matt. 5:48 (possibly more of a spiritual perfection of the heart than man's idea of never ever stumbling)

Jesus' blood is our advocate with the Father.

but that doesn't mean we "get saved" and then continue to live as we've always lived with some spiritual pass to sinning.

what is the Biblical definition of sin?

It does not mean we are wholly sanctified by works that you do. If a brother did not sin why would we need to forgive him 70 times?

 

[dad]

God spoke the 10 Commandments out loud to those who were present at Sinai, and they were not just Israelites present.

Deut. 29:10-11 and 14-15

the 10 Commandments were specifically the only Commandments that God ever spoke aloud upon the earth.

not sure if we're differing, but just clarifying.

one might consider the jews of Jesus' day to be OT jews, but they did not follow the 10 Commandments at all; they taught them, but they did not obey them.

Matt. 23:1-3

Jesus obeyed them implicitly and taught them as well.

John 15:10

Jesus is God and He spoke other commandments

 

[Jim B]

sanctification is God separating us to Himself.

most people who are separated from old circles of friends who live in daily habitual sin, or from jobs, family members, etc., are not separated over night.

it is a process. just as I said.

being separated from our old ways, our old habits, old sins/addictions, etc., is a process.

it is an absolute lie that we are converted to perfection over night simply by "getting saved", i.e. saying a prayer, making a profession, or even getting baptized.

it takes time, but it is not even possible without being empowered, inspired and enabled by God's Spirit.

nobody has even the most basic desire for God unless He gives that to them.

no man can come to Christ unless God draws him.
John 6:44

This is theoretical, but basically I disagree.

But this has nothing to do with the OP subject: the 10 commandments are forever.

 

[Jim B]

you are correct in spotty places, here and there.

but to say that the OT has no application to the Christian is downright obnoxious.

the only difference between the Old and New Covenant is the Spirit indwelling us. and He does so to enable us to do what?

to obey the OT 10 Commandments.

it is a pattern that is seen by many who study this particular topic that the Sabbath Commandment is the only one anybody has a real problem with.

it is the most hated thing in the Bible by God's enemies, and by modern professed Christians who hate the idea of the Bible having any rules in it that pertain to them.

interestingly, it is one of the most cherished things to God as it is the day that He has set aside forever for His most beloved to spend very special time in communion with Him. it is the same day that all those who have ever loved God have honored and that's what makes it eternally sacred. God would never change that day as it is the day that has always been special to Him throughout all of history, and it will be special to Him, and to all those who continue to seek and love Him, 'til the end of time.

Jesus kept it. all of His disciples kept it and all those who truly love and honor Him today keep it.

the rest of the 10 Commandments are obvious moral Laws.

a) It is not "obnoxious"

b) You are not expressing Christianity when you write nonsense like "modern professed Christians who hate the idea of the Bible having any rules in it that pertain to them"

b) Read Galatians! Here is are two small sections to get you started...

"You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?" Galatians 3:1-3

"For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit." Galatians 3:10-14

Perhaps you will understand faith versus law, or perhaps you will continue in your spiritually-blind legalism.



I believe Paul, not you.

 

[Jim B]

I wholeheartedly disagree and the Bible fully backs me up.

but I did not say that YOU were a liar. it is a common modern lie, of many churches, that we are made perfect immediately upon getting saved.

that is just absolute nonsense and those who hold to that are not even being reasonable.

anybody that has ever attended a church and gotten to know a good number of folks there will agree that the vast majority are not changed much from their previous condition, and they certainly are not perfected spiritually.

if it helps you sleep at night to believe that modern myth, go right ahead.

there are far more professed Christians that walk away from the faith entirely within weeks, months or years than those who remain in church; and of those who remain in the church, the majority don't have any real grasp at all of their Bible.

again, if you wish to believe that's not the case, go right ahead, but even the Bible is clear that the majority of God's professed people are destroyed for lack of knowledge due to their failure to develop a love for the Truth. they are preached lies to on a daily basis and none of them in the churches today have any Holy Spirit discernment to set off any alarm bells that what they are hearing is not Truth.

Hosea 4:6
2 Thess. 2:10-11

So the Holy Spirit whom God gave us is flawed? As members of Christ's body, we are flawed? His crucifixion didn't have a full effect?

"... the Bible is clear that the majority of God's professed people are destroyed for lack of knowledge", but of course you are the clear exception! LOL!!!

BTW, who appointed you to judge and condemn the body of Christ? Writing such nonsense as "none of them in the churches today have any Holy Spirit discernment to set off any alarm bells that what they are hearing is not Truth." You, of course, are the clear exception. LOL!!!

Why not take a break and read the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector (and the verses following). You might learn something!

And put out your legalism menorah!

 

[Jim B]

I can't believe you don't know the difference between the words sinlessness and perfection. Twice I have said that we are not made perfect day one, and this is the second time you've wrongly accused me.

We are sinless when Jesus takes away our willful lawless sins out of our nature. Do you believe the Scriptures, or your life experience? Please take note that the life experience of a born again Christian is totally different than someone who is still in the flesh whether they go to church or not. Many Christians are not saved.

1 John 3:4-5, 9
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

M3n0r4h (menorah) is just another self-righteous legalist who likes to exalt himself over the body of Christ. I wouldn't pay too much attention to him.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

M3n0r4h (menorah) is just another self-righteous legalist who likes to exalt himself over the body of Christ. I wouldn't pay too much attention to him.

Is English his first language? Twice I've said the opposite of what he is accusing me of. Is he Jewish?

 

[Jim B]

Is English his first language? Twice I've said the opposite of what he is accusing me of. Is he Jewish?

There is a good possibility of that. a) His "handle" is (decoded) "menorah" and b) he believes in OT legalism.