The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[David in NJ]

Have edited original. Thank you.

Great quote. God took His holy Sabbath day very seriously, and expected Israel to do the same. It was intended as a sign of the relationship between God and His people. and in theocratic Israel, the consequences of profaning it were dire indeed. Thankfully Jesus bore upon His own head the death sentence for disobedience... Not just in regards the 4th commandment, but every commandment. Otherwise we all be lost.
Praise God also for the holy Spirit and the power of God that by His grace and mercy, through faith in His promises, the power of sin is broken, and we no longer need to live as slaves under it's tyranny.
Praise God also for the mystery of the gospel whereby the believing Israeli and Gentile are now one in Christ. It was to them that the promise of the new covenant was made.

So you are saying, that your quote of scripture above is why the 4th commandment is so distasteful? (Yes, 4th comment, not 7th, my bad.,) So distasteful that the church believes it has the authority to overturn even the Commandments of God in favor of it's own traditions and alternatives?

Did i ever say that the 4th Commandment was distatsteful? = NO

You ask: "the church believes it has the authority to overturn even the Commandments of God for traditions and alternatives?"

i am asking you: Has the 4th Commandment been overturned?

 

[Behold]

okay .... so that's when Christians were supposed to have cast the 10 Commandments aside then?

as the Bible shows, that's not what happened.

your response?

The 10 Commandments are not given to get you into heaven., nor can Jesus's commandments.

See the Cross of Christ for that revelation, as the way to go to heaven.

John 14:6

 

[Behold]

." So I do NOT teach that sanctification is a process and never have,

1stCenturyLady said:

"if sanctification is not the name of the life process we go through, what is?

 

[M3n0r4h]

The 10 Commandments are not given to get you into heaven., nor can Jesus's commandments.

See the Cross of Christ for that revelation, as the way to go to heaven.

John 14:6

you completely avoided the question.

please respond to my question. I'd very much appreciate it.

and can you please elaborate on the verse you posted. I'm not sure what's significant about John 14:6 in regard to our current exchange.

thank you.

 

[David in NJ]

that's pretty silly.

was Jesus "IN" the OT?

were His disciples "IN" the OT?

don't the commonly taught NT "RULES" supposedly begin at the moment of Christ's death?

then why did His closest followers obey the OT Laws that night, and for 300 years after?

looks like you got some 'splainin' to do.

who's "IN" the OT, who's "IN" the NT?

how do you know?

when does one start and the other begin?

silly.

You asked: When does one start and the other begin?

We have the answer from God directly = John 19:28-30

"After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!”
Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth.
So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit."

Our Savior consumed the OT/Sour Wine in and on His Sinless Body and said: "It is finished"

PEACE and BLESSING to you this DAY in the New Covenant made thru His Sinless Sacrifice and Precious Blood shed for us.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

1stCenturyLady said:

"if sanctification is not the name of the life process we go through, what is?

Glorification. Conformed to the image of Christ. Romans 8:29-30 Note: sanctified is not there because as soon as we are justified, we are set apart.

 

[David in NJ]

None of your quotes say we are no longer obliged to obey God's commandments. Not being under the law means we are no longer condemned as being transgressors of the law. If I am pulled over by a highway patrol-man because I was speeding, and admit that yes, I was indeed doing 75mph in a 50mph zone, then I am under the law. I am obliged to take responsibility for my transgressing, and pay the penalty. But if the cop chooses to let me off with a warning, I am no longer under the law, yet I am certainly even more so, obliged to obey that law being under grace.
It is the same with God's commandments.
We are no longer accounted as sinners in the sight of God. KJV 1 John 3:4
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
KJV Romans 3:20
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

SEE post #2,345

 

[David in NJ]

Glorification. Conformed to the image of Christ. Romans 8:29-30

Eternally AWESOME = Thank You for posting

1 John 3:1-3
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear,
we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

 

[M3n0r4h]

You asked: When does one start and the other begin?

We have the answer from God directly = John 19:28-30

"After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!”
Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth.
So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit."

Our Savior consumed the OT/Sour Wine in and on His Sinless Body and said: "It is finished"

PEACE and BLESSING to you this DAY in the New Covenant made thru His Precious Blood shed for us.

that passage states "ALL THINGS" were now accomplished. that is pretty broad.

does that mean that the NT, or New Covenant is also completed?

as you posted, I asked when does one start and the other begin?

this passage does not answer that.

also, the question was asked in reference to the 10 Commandments and their application to Christians.

would you like to answer the current evolution of that question which basically asked 'why did Jesus' followers obey the 10 Commandments after His death on the Cross?' - which is when you, and @Behold, say the Commandments were done away with for Christians.

Christ's followers were the first Christians. He would not have had them doing different things than He expects of us today.

 

[BarneyFife]

You asked: When does one start and the other begin?

We have the answer from God directly = John 19:28-30

"After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!”
Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth.
So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit."

Our Savior consumed the OT/Sour Wine in and on His Sinless Body and said: "It is finished"

PEACE and BLESSING to you this DAY in the New Covenant made thru His Precious Blood shed for us.

Forgive me, but "sour wine" is "from God directly."

"OT/Sour Wine," on the other hand, is from men.

 

[David in NJ]

that passage states "ALL THINGS" were now accomplished. that is pretty broad.

does that mean that the NT, or New Covenant is also completed?

as you posted, I asked when does one start and the other begin?

this passage does not answer that.

also, the question was asked in reference to the 10 Commandments and their application to Christians.

would you like to answer the current evolution of that question which basically asked 'why did Jesus' followers obey the 10 Commandments after His death on the Cross?' - which is when you, and @Behold, say the Commandments were done away with for Christians.

Christ's followers were the first Christians. He would not have had them doing different things than He expects of us today.

Dear Friend - OPEN the eyes of your heart and read it again and again = His words and ways are Perfect

Forgive me, but "sour wine" is "from God directly."

"OT/Sour Wine," on the other hand, is from men.

Good Morning my Brother in Christ Barney,

How are you Today?

PEACE to You

a Brother asked:
"how can we be seeking to obey them on our own when Christ taught to obey them?
are you saying we must embrace Christ, and all that He taught, at the same time as we are obeying the 10 Commandments?"

ANSWER
i know a Bible Scholar who holds a SCRAM in Divinity and this is what HE says:

Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?”

So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”

And he answered and said to Him, “Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth.”

Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.”
Mark 10:17-21

 

[Behold]

Glorification. Conformed to the image of Christ. Romans 8:29-30 Note: sanctified is not there because as soon as we are justified, we are set apart.

tCenturyLady said:

"if sanctification is not the name of the life process we go through, what is?


then she said....


1stCenturyLady said:
." So I do NOT teach that sanctification is a process and never have,

 

[David in NJ]

tCenturyLady said:

"if sanctification is not the name of the life process we go through, what is?

YES, there is a "sanctification" process commanded by our LORD for us to walk in = John ch17

It begins the DAY we are Born-Again and 'Set Apart' in CHRIST for our Walk with Him.

 

[Behold]

@Behold, say the Commandments were done away with for Christians.

What you said is not true.

Ive not said that... i simply said that keeping commandments, and doing works, have nothing to do with being BORN AGAIN.

See,
Being born again, is not related to commandments or law.


Generally the disconnect in understanding, is that many believers dont understand the distinction between Salvation that God's provides, and then what we do afterwards, as our discipleship.

They see salvation and discipleship as "the same".. .and they are not., and that is the confusion about law, and commandments, vs, Salvation.

 

[BarneyFife]

Dear Friend - OPEN the eyes of your heart and read it again and again = His words and ways are Perfect



Good Morning my Brother in Christ Barney,

How are you Today?

PEACE to You

a Brother asked:
"how can we be seeking to obey them on our own when Christ taught to obey them?
are you saying we must embrace Christ, and all that He taught, at the same time as we are obeying the 10 Commandments?"

ANSWER
i know a Bible Scholar who holds a SCRAM in Divinity and this is what HE says:

Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?”

So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”

And he answered and said to Him, “Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth.”

Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.”
Mark 10:17-21

Hi, Brother David!
It's been a while.

I like the Scripture you quote. I've always seen it as a discovery that the rich young ruler had actually only kept the first 9 commandments, at most, from his youth.

IOW, his problem wasn't the cross he wouldn't take up. He was nowhere near ready for that. And he came for the express purpose of following Jesus so that wasn't a problem, either. It was the selling of his property that made him stumble.

As verse 22 explains:

"And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions."

He would not subject himself to the change of heart that would liberate him from his covetous bondage in which he had placed his trust all his life.

 

[ButterflyJones]

What you said is not true.

Ive not said that... i simply said that keeping commandments, and doing works, have nothing to do with being BORN AGAIN.

See,
Being born again, is not related to commandments or law.


Generally the disconnect in understanding, is that many believers dont understand the distinction between Salvation that God's provides, and then what we do afterwards, as our discipleship.

They see salvation and discipleship as "the same".. .and they are not., and that is the confusion about law, and commandments, vs, Salvation.

They unfortunately see obedience to the law as contingent for salvation.

Then there are those who think God's commandments no longer have meaning for the Saved.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

YES, there is a "sanctification" process commanded by our LORD for us to walk in = John ch17

It begins the DAY we are Born-Again and 'Set Apart' in CHRIST for our Walk with Him.

Yes, sinners need to be sanctified, but God doesn't need to continue setting us apart. We ARE set apart when He cleanses us of all unrighteousness called justification. If sanctification was a process why isn't it mentioned here with the rest? And look what IS mentioned.

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

cc: @Behold If you want to believe common doctrines just because they are popular, doesn't mean they are out of the Bible.

 

[David in NJ]

Hi, Brother David!
It's been a while.

I like the Scripture you quote. I've always seen it as a discovery that the rich young ruler had actually only kept the first 9 commandments, at most, from his youth.

IOW, his problem wasn't the cross he wouldn't take up. He was nowhere near ready for that. And he came for the express purpose of following Jesus so that wasn't a problem, either. It was the selling of his property that made him stumble.

As verse 22 explains:

"And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions."

He would not subject himself to the change of heart that would liberate him from his covetous bondage in which he had placed his trust all his life.

Correct = It was the choice of Wealth and Comfort vs Self-Denial and Commitment to following the MESSIAH of Israel(and the World).

So we have covered and agree on the actual surface of the context of this passage.

Let us continue to look into the passage.

As you pointed out = "he had great possessions"

However, the GREATEST Possession was in front of this young ruler = the MESSIAH and SAVIOR

FOCUS: The young ruler was FAITHFUL to God in obeying the Commandments = “Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth.”

JESUS points out to him and to us that obeying the Commandments alone cannot SAVE a person.
WHY???
Because the Commandments point to CHRIST.
AND
CHRIST is GREATER then the Commandments and all of the LAW = Mark 2:23-27

And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
Therefore the Son of Man is also LORD of the Sabbath.”

Peace to you my Brother Barney

 

[ButterflyJones]

Yes, sinners need to be sanctified, but God doesn't need to continue setting us apart. We ARE set apart when He cleanses us of all unrighteousness called justification. If sanctification was a process why isn't it mentioned here with the rest? And look what IS mentioned.

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

cc: @Behold If you want to believe common doctrines just because they are popular, doesn't mean they are out of the Bible.

If the pattern holds, be ready to be accused of being a Calvinist for having posted this.
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, sinners need to be sanctified, but God doesn't need to continue setting us apart. We ARE set apart when He cleanses us of all unrighteousness called justification. If sanctification was a process why isn't it mentioned here with the rest? And look what IS mentioned.

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

cc: @Behold If you want to believe common doctrines just because they are popular, doesn't mean they are out of the Bible.

Here is (in brief) the Doctrine of God in Christ

a.) You must be Born-Again = "SAVED by Grace thru Faith and not of works lest any man should boast" - Ephesians ch2

b.) Fully justified by Grace thru the Redeeming Blood of CHRIST - 1 Peter 1:19
knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

c.) Growing in the Word = 1 Peter 2:2 "As newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow THEREBY"

d.) Sanctification begins, continues and ends with a Relationship and Walk with TRUTH = John chapter 17
They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

e.) Sanctification Begins and Ends thru FAITH - 1 Peter 1:6-9
In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.