The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[Jack]

which Commandment do you claim we break?

they're not difficult to keep, ya know.

which ones are impossible to keep?

God made it simple.

Have you even read the Law of Moses? Doesn't sound like you even know what's in it.

 

[Jack]

you sure won't find Salvation in disobedience and living life your own way.

I'll stick with the New Covenant. The Law can't save you.

you are a worker of iniquity preaching the breaking of the 10 Commandments.

"I'll stick with the New Covenant. The Law can't save you."

you are not following Christ ... who ARE you following?

"I'll stick with the New Covenant. The Law can't save you."

even the serpents and vipers of the NT actually TAUGHT obedience to the 10 Commandments while YOU teach NOT to obey God.

Jesus said if your righteousness does not EXCEED that of those snakes and children of the devil, you will in no wise enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

You pick the parts of the Law you like and avoid the rest. Do you tell people to be circumcised, a COMMANDMENT in the Law? Have you read Galatians?

Galatians 5:2-4
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

 

[M3n0r4h]

Jesus was sinless.

which shatters your point of argument.

I would say thanks for your honesty, but it's not as if you had a choice.

 

[Jack]

KJV Exodus 31:15-17
15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Did you not know that the new covenant was promised only to Israel?

KJV Hebrews 8:10
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

But that's okay, because...

KJV Ephesians 2:11-22
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Who are we then? We are Israel!!!
Yay!!! You know what that means? The new covenant is for us, and lo and behold, the same law that was written by Jesus' own finger on tables of stone, He is now writing upon the fleshly tables of our hearts.
KJV 2 Corinthians 3:3
3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Now that's exciting. Righteousness, that is obedience to all God's commandments, comes to us by faith, and it is lived out experientially through the love of the holy Spirit abiding within. So. No-one is earning their way to heaven. God Himself had made provision for all who believe to become sons and daughters of God, and along with that awesome privilege comes the power, and the desire, to obey all of God's Commandments. Even the 4th.



I don't ever preach law, because the law gets a little dry and distasteful after a while. But I do preach the gospel... And you'll find that in some of my previous posts. The gospel uplifts and glorifies the Giver of the law, along with the law itself. In threads like this though, when other Christians start preaching lawlessness, I just cannot help myself to defend God's laws, seeing they are a written transcript of His very own character.

Certainly not. Particularly when those under the law are under it's condemnation. KJV Romans 3:19-20
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

You're Israel? lol

 

[M3n0r4h]

I'll stick with the New Covenant. The Law can't save you.

"I'll stick with the New Covenant. The Law can't save you."

"I'll stick with the New Covenant. The Law can't save you."

You pick the parts of the Law you like and avoid the rest. Do you tell people to be circumcised, a COMMANDMENT in the Law? Have you read Galatians?

Galatians 5:2-4
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

this thread is about the 10 Commandments.

do you keep them?

maybe you should start a thread about the Laws of Ordinances that expired at the Cross and rant and rave about them to whomever shows up.

 

[Jack]

which shatters your point of argument.

I would say thanks for your honesty, but it's not as if you had a choice.

Why do you preach the Law when you know you don't obey it? You're a debtor to obey ALL of the Law. And you can't and don't. You pick the parts you like to preach to others.

 

[Jack]

this thread is about the 10 Commandments.

do you keep them?

I'm Christian, not Jew. I follow the New Covenant.

maybe you should start a thread about the Laws of Ordinances that expired at the Cross and rant and rave about them to whomever shows up.

Maybe you should explain why you don't obey Paul nor the Law of Moses.

Galatians 5:2-4
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

 

[David in NJ]

I don't understand.

how can we be seeking to obey them on our own when Christ taught to obey them?

are you saying we must embrace Christ, and all that He taught, at the same time as we are obeying the 10 Commandments?

Excellent observation and question!

i know a Bible Scholar who holds a SCRAM in Divinity and this is what HE says:

Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?”

So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”

And he answered and said to Him, “Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth.”

Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.”
Mark 10:17-21

 

[Jim B]

I don't understand.

how can we be seeking to obey them on our own when Christ taught to obey them?

are you saying we must embrace Christ, and all that He taught, at the same time as we are obeying the 10 Commandments?

When / where did Christ teach Christians to obey the ten commandments? He may have taught the unsaved but once He was crucified and the Holy Spirit was given the requirements of the law were entirely satisfied.

 

[Jim B]

this thread is about the 10 Commandments.

do you keep them?

maybe you should start a thread about the Laws of Ordinances that expired at the Cross and rant and rave about them to whomever shows up.

The ten commandments are a part of the OT law. You can't separate them out, even though many people try.

 

[Jack]

The ten commandments are a part of the OT law. You can't separate them out, even though many people try.

Exactly!!!

Galatians 5:2-4 (NKJV)
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

 

[M3n0r4h]

Why do you preach the Law when you know you don't obey it? You're a debtor to obey ALL of the Law. And you can't and don't. You pick the parts you like to preach to others.

yeah, I already asked you which of the 10 Commandments are impossible for me to keep?

you continue to dodge that question because it assassinates your argument.

where else would you like to take your losing argument?

 

[M3n0r4h]

I'm Christian, not Jew. I follow the New Covenant.

yeah, see, you continue to reveal how confused, and uneducated, you are on the topic of discussion.

jews don't obey the 10 Commandments. they never have.

if you're a Christian, that declares that you are a follower of Jesus Christ.

Jesus obeyed, and taught, the 10 Commandments.

do you?

Maybe you should explain why you don't obey Paul

first of all, Paul is not my God.

ironically, to your point of contention though, Paul was a keeper of the 10 Commandments.
Acts 21:24

and because I too keep the 10 Commandments, I suppose you could say I follow Paul in that regard.

 

[M3n0r4h]

Excellent observation and question!

thanks.

care to answer the question?

you may have not noticed that I asked YOU what YOU meant by the post that I quoted of yours.

are you able to explain what you meant in that particular post concerning the keeping of the 10 Commandments and needing Christ to be saved?

 

[ButterflyJones]

wrong.

ignoring the Sabbath Commandment is breaking the 4th Commandment.

it's no Christian's prerogative to disobey God's Commandments.

stumbling is one thing, as James 3:2 makes clear, but willingly breaking any of the 10 on a regular basis is not just a Christian's prerogative.

sin is the breaking of the 10 Commandments per 1 John 3:4.

Jesus kept them (John 15:10), Jesus taught them (Matt. 23:1-3) and Jesus' closest followers kept them after His death on the Cross - including the Sabbath (Luke 23:54-56) for 300 years thereafter until the Catholic Church changed everything.

any lax attitude, by any Christian, toward the 10 Commandments will be dealt with as in Matt. 7:23 by Jesus.

there is no middle ground here.

a Christian is a "Follower of Christ".

period.

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the Commandments of God (just as Jesus did), and the faith of Jesus."
Rev. 14:12

the faith, the doctrine, the belief system, of Jesus Christ IS the Ten Commandments of God.

As you may note there are many here who choose to ignore the Sabbath. Which, as I said, is their prerogative. I did not state it was wise or OK.

Instead, those who condemn "Sabbatarians" likely worship Christians God on the fate reserved for the pagan Romans sun God.

 

[Jim B]

Exactly!!!

Galatians 5:2-4 (NKJV)
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Exactly!!

Everyone becomes estranged from Christ, when they attempt to be justified by law. His death provided full justification for everyone who believes. For a Christian to put themself back under the law is to deny Christ.

 

[Jim B]

yeah, I already asked you which of the 10 Commandments are impossible for me to keep?

you continue to dodge that question because it assassinates your argument.

where else would you like to take your losing argument?

If you're a Christian, it's not a question of being able to keep the ten commandments or not. The OT law, including the ten commandments, are for everyone who is not under the new covenant, put into effect by Christ's sacrifice. If you accept His sacrifice for yourself then you are no longer under the law. Why? Because all the law's requirements (including the ten commandments) have been satisfied.

Where else would you like to take your losing argument?

 

[Jim B]

yeah, see, you continue to reveal how confused, and uneducated, you are on the topic of discussion.

jews don't obey the 10 Commandments. they never have.

if you're a Christian, that declares that you are a follower of Jesus Christ.

Jesus obeyed, and taught, the 10 Commandments.

do you?

first of all, Paul is not my God.

ironically, to your point of contention though, Paul was a keeper of the 10 Commandments.
Acts 21:24

and because I too keep the 10 Commandments, I suppose you could say I follow Paul in that regard.

I'm "waiting for the other shoe to drop".

You continue to reveal how confused, and uneducated, you are on the topic of discussion.

Jews (and everyone else except Christians) are required to keep God's law. And they obey the ten commandments and the rest of the OT as well as they can. Of course, it is impossible to keep all of the OT law, which is why everyone must accept Jesus' sacrifice as applying to them. If a person -- Jew or gentile -- accepts Christ's sacrifice on their behalf, then the requirements of the law have been totally met and it no longer applies.

Paul kept the ten commandments as a practicing Jew until he was knocked down on the road to Damascus.

Afterwards he wrote this: "In the same way, my brothers and sisters, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code." Romans 7:1-6

How many times must I write the above? I'm really getting tired of repeating myself!

 

[Brakelite]

You are twisting what I wrote, "putting words in my mouth". We comply with God's law because of what is written in our hearts. No Christian needs to be commanded by the OT law to love your neighbor, for example. Christians are guided by the Holy Spirit, who naturally guides us to behave as God wills.

As you correctly said, "Jim seems to think they are, in fact he says it is the holy Spirit that prompts and changes our hearts and minds to obey". NOT THE WRITTEN LAW, WHICH APPLIES TO ALL WHO HAVEN'T BEEN BORN OF THE SPIRIT.

You wrote this nonsense: "The only one you have any issue with is the 4th, and in a pique of emotional hip shooting, find it necessary to throw all the commandments out as being a tyranny and a bondage" is a prime example of reductio ad absurdum. Try reading how Jesus dealt with sabbath observation in Matthew 12:11-12, "He said to them, “Suppose one of you has only one sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath; will you not lay hold of it and lift it out? How much more valuable is a human being than a sheep! So it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” and Matthew 12:1-8, "At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on the Sabbath; his disciples were hungry, and they began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. When the Pharisees saw it, they said to him, “Look, your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath.” He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 How he entered the house of God, and they ate the bread of the Presence, which it was not lawful for him or his companions to eat, but only for the priests? Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and yet are guiltless? I tell you, something greater than the temple is here. But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless. For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.” See, the legalistic interpretation of the fourth commandment is what gets you into trouble. You need to read it (and the rest of Scripture) with understanding!

Finally, your fixation on the seventh commandment clearly shows where your mind is!

I believe in scripture, which includes every passage you have quoted. I am fully aware of what those texts are saying, and your quoting them doesn't help your cause when you presume to know my motives and mindset.
Much of what you say I can agree with. Actually, I'm not sure why you quoted those passages, and I certainly don't know why my practise of observing and obeying God's commandments is contrary to what you quote, or anything else in scripture for that matter.
The only conclusion I can come up with is that you are of the belief that not just mine, but everyone's practise of Sabbath keeping is an attempt to earn salvation, and you think that because such attempts are futile, (which they are), then all obedience and the law of God as written in the commandments must be unchristian. So it comes down to you judging the motives of millions of Christian believers throughout the world, and you and Jack searching for reasons to justify your non compliance with God's commandments.
I also wonder, in response to the quote of scripture above, whether you believe Jesus and the disciples actually broke the commandment when they ate some grain and healed people on the Sabbath? I'm not making that conclusion, not wanting to judge your motives, but am curious as to why you chose that particular passage to justify your non compliance, or critique my compliance. Not really sure where you are coming from.
As for me having a fixation on the Sabbath. For over 25 years other Christians have been condemning me for being a Seventh Day Adventist, and have focused on Sabbath keeping as their number one gripe. Why is that I wonder? What is it about the 4th commandment that non Adventist Christians find so distasteful that they search scriptures to find reasons to justify their non observance of the Sabbath, and their replacing God's holy day with something else?

 

[Jim B]

What is so difficult about understanding the difference between the Old Covenant, when one is required to keep the entire law, and the New Covenant, when all the requirements of the law have been met in Christ? It's really not that difficult to understand!

Galatians 5:1, "For freedom Christ has set us free. Stand firm, therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery." Freedom from what? The OT law, which Paul calls "a yoke of slavery". The OT law is a master who can never be satisfied. No matter how hard one tries, it is impossible to keep the OT law. And if you're guilty of even the smallest violation, you are guilty and sentenced to death!

If you have accepted Christ's sacrifice on your behalf by faith, then you have met all the requirements of the law and you have eternal life. IT IS THAT SIMPLE!

There should be no need to have a discussion thread about this subject. It is the basis of Christianity.