The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[Phoneman777]

What do you mean by the above?
Isn't it Origen that believed in the Ransom Theory of atonement?

Sorry but not familiar with Ransom Theory. I do know he hated the idea Jesus had to shed His blood to save us, much like Catholicism.

I remember hearing about a priest who praised the song "How Great Thou Art" and sang it loudly, but when he got to the part about "And when I think that God, His Son not sparing, sent Him to die, I scarce can take it in..." the priest said "I scarce can take it in either" and he refused to sing that part. Occultist, one and all.

 

[dad]

Where did Jesus mention rewards in John 5:28??

Not everything has to be mentioned in one verse. That is why we have a whole bible. Surely you realize He comes and His reward is with Him etc?

The deeds of the Law just means that if we have NO FAITH
but do works, like donating money to the poor but the donator does not believe in God,
that person will not be saved.

Works do not save that is true.

We must have faith first,,,
and then we must also do good deeds/works.

Yeah, like be faithful. However Peter ran like a chicken. He denied Jesus also. He also attacked a soldier with a deadly weapon, doubted, etc. He also had good works. Yes, we will have some good works after Jesus lives inside of us. Some more than others. He will give rewards for our works. That has nothing to do with salvation.

Faith without works is a DEAD FAITH.
James 2

It sure is. And Peter probably felt he had pretty dead faith when he denied Jesus 3 times. Paul probably did also when he moaned 'o wretched man that I am'. Etc. If people's works are burned they will still be saved. We all should do wonderful things and strive to mastery and etc etc etc yada yada. However, the reality is that we sometimes make mistakes and do things we wish we had not done, say things we wish we didn't say and etc. We are a work in progress.

A dead faith is NO FAITH...
No faith means no salvation.

Baloney.
1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire
Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Some people have had times when they did not get much word and didn't have a whole lot of faith. Later, they maybe did get more word in and consequently had more faith. They became much more lively stones so to speak. We also should remember that works are sometimes not observed from afar. We might judge someone as having no works when maybe they have plenty. God is the judge. So what good does it do to focus on how people should keep the ten commandments and church laws and etc etc or else consider they have no 'works'?

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[dad]

What do you think DOES have to do with salvation?
Is it necessary to obey God?

It is necessary to believe in Him whom God sent.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Phoneman777]

What do you think DOES have to do with salvation?
Is it necessary to obey God?

I think what is necessary to be saved is that we consent to a belief in ALL Jesus said, including our need to repent, which is a purely mental action of choice, not outward works. Works merely demonstrate our choice to believe and repent or the choice to not.

IOW, works are not what saves us or causes us to be lost: it's our decision to either believe and repent (and continue therein aka "abide in the Vine"), or to not. Works is only the evidence of whatever choice we've made

 

[dad]

I think what is necessary to be saved is that we consent to a belief in ALL Jesus said, including our need to repent, which is a purely mental action of choice, not outward works. Works merely demonstrate our choice to believe and repent or the choice to not.

IOW, works are not what saves us or causes us to be lost: it's our decision to either believe and repent (and continue therein aka "abide in the Vine"), or to not. Works is only the evidence of whatever choice we've made

I am not sure the thief on the cross knew about all that Jesus said. Many others fall under that category as well. Like a newborn baby does not know all about the world, at least it is alive and then starts to learn.

 

[Phoneman777]

I am not sure the thief on the cross knew about all that Jesus said. Many others fall under that category as well. Like a newborn baby does not know all about the world, at least it is alive and then starts to learn.

I think you're right - he didn't understand anything about anything, but what I'm sure he had was a WILLINGNESS to do whatever the Savior told him to do. Likewise, "when you have done all that your heavenly Father hath commanded you to do, you are to say, We are unprofitable servants, we have only done that which we were supposed to do."

 

[GodsGrace]

Sorry but not familiar with Ransom Theory. I do know he hated the idea Jesus had to shed His blood to save us, much like Catholicism.

I remember hearing about a priest who praised the song "How Great Thou Art" and sang it loudly, but when he got to the part about "And when I think that God, His Son not sparing, sent Him to die, I scarce can take it in..." the priest said "I scarce can take it in either" and he refused to sing that part. Occultist, one and all.

I wouldn't say one and all.
Just that one.

The ransom theory is interesting...
I'll link a short and good article below. (from a book)
It has the 7 (if I remember) most important atonement theories.
The propitiation theory came about at the reformation and was not really in the early church.
The CC believe more in the expiation theory and the "model" theory...
Can't remember the titles.
Here it is: (I meant the Moral Influence Theory)

7 Theories of the Atonement Summarized - Stephen D. Morrison

 

[GodsGrace]

Not everything has to be mentioned in one verse. That is why we have a whole bible. Surely you realize He comes and His reward is with Him etc?

Works do not save that is true.

Yeah, like be faithful. However Peter ran like a chicken. He denied Jesus also. He also attacked a soldier with a deadly weapon, doubted, etc. He also had good works. Yes, we will have some good works after Jesus lives inside of us. Some more than others. He will give rewards for our works. That has nothing to do with salvation.
It sure is. And Peter probably felt he had pretty dead faith when he denied Jesus 3 times. Paul probably did also when he moaned 'o wretched man that I am'. Etc. If people's works are burned they will still be saved. We all should do wonderful things and strive to mastery and etc etc etc yada yada. However, the reality is that we sometimes make mistakes and do things we wish we had not done, say things we wish we didn't say and etc. We are a work in progress.

Baloney.
1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire
Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Some people have had times when they did not get much word and didn't have a whole lot of faith. Later, they maybe did get more word in and consequently had more faith. They became much more lively stones so to speak. We also should remember that works are sometimes not observed from afar. We might judge someone as having no works when maybe they have plenty. God is the judge. So what good does it do to focus on how people should keep the ten commandments and church laws and etc etc or else consider they have no 'works'?

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

I was agreeing with you and all was fine until you got to baloney...
What is the work of God?
What does 1 Cor 3:15 mean anyway?
2 am here...
to be cont'd.
'night.

 

[GodsGrace]

It is necessary to believe in Him whom God sent.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Agreed.
But what does BELIEVE mean?
Check out the Greek....believe also means to obey.
But I'm sure you agree that we should obey.
It's just that sometimes persons that speak as you do give the impression that they don't think it's really necessary to obey.

 

[GodsGrace]

I think what is necessary to be saved is that we consent to a belief in ALL Jesus said, including our need to repent, which is a purely mental action of choice, not outward works. Works merely demonstrate our choice to believe and repent or the choice to not.

IOW, works are not what saves us or causes us to be lost: it's our decision to either believe and repent (and continue therein aka "abide in the Vine"), or to not. Works is only the evidence of whatever choice we've made

That sounds good.
As I stated....we must have faith first or works are useless.
After we have faith, God does expect us to obey Him...
and works become a sign of our belief in Him.
Works/good deeds is just anything we do...because we now do it for God.
Colossians 3:17

 

[Ferris Bueller]

First you have to find the scripture in Exodus that specifically details them by the name of Ten Commandment being written on the tablets....like the scriptures I have provided.

Deuteronomy 5:7-22 is the same list of commands that were listed in Exodus 20:3-17...

7You shall have no other gods before Me.c8You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in the heavens above, on the earth below, or in the waters beneath. 9You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on their children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10but showing loving devotion to a thousand generationsd of those who love Me and keep My commandments.11You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave anyone unpunished who takes His name in vain.12Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you. 13Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God, on which you must not do any work—neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox or donkey or any of your livestock, nor the foreigner within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest as you do. 15Remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. That is why the LORD your God has commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.16Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that your days may be long and that it may go well with you in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.e17You shall not murder.f18You shall not commit adultery.g19You shall not steal.h20You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.i21You shall not covetj your neighbor’s wife. You shall not covet your neighbor’s house or field, or his manservant or maidservant, or his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
​

And it says these are what the Lord wrote on the two tablets of stone...

22The LORD spoke these commandments in a loud voice to your whole assembly out of the fire, the cloud, and the deep darkness on the mountain; He added nothing more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me. Deuteronomy 5:7-22
​

And the two tablets of stone are called the Ten Commandments in Deuteronomy 10:4.

"4And the LORD wrote on the tablets what had been written previously, the Ten Commandments..."​

Did you follow that?
Deuteronomy 5:7-22 is the same list of commands as Exodus 20:3-17. Deuteronomy 5:7-22 was written on the two tablets. The two tablets of stone are called the Ten Commandments. Voila! Exodus 20:3-17 are the Ten Commandments.

 

[quietthinker]

Going to synagogue is not ceremonial?
How is it a moral law?

We recognise that God is the creator ...it honours him.
Most have still to learn what blessing and hallowing this day of rest means let alone enjoy its benefits......and who said anything about synagogue?

 

[Grailhunter]

Deuteronomy 5:7-22 is the same list of commands that were listed in Exodus 20:3-17...

7You shall have no other gods before Me.c8You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in the heavens above, on the earth below, or in the waters beneath. 9You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on their children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10but showing loving devotion to a thousand generationsd of those who love Me and keep My commandments.11You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave anyone unpunished who takes His name in vain.12Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you. 13Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God, on which you must not do any work—neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox or donkey or any of your livestock, nor the foreigner within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest as you do. 15Remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. That is why the LORD your God has commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.16Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that your days may be long and that it may go well with you in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.e17You shall not murder.f18You shall not commit adultery.g19You shall not steal.h20You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.i21You shall not covetj your neighbor’s wife. You shall not covet your neighbor’s house or field, or his manservant or maidservant, or his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
​

And it says these are what the Lord wrote on the two tablets of stone...

22The LORD spoke these commandments in a loud voice to your whole assembly out of the fire, the cloud, and the deep darkness on the mountain; He added nothing more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me. Deuteronomy 5:7-22
​

And the two tablets of stone are called the Ten Commandments in Deuteronomy 10:4.

"4And the LORD wrote on the tablets what had been written previously, the Ten Commandments..."​

Did you follow that?
Deuteronomy 5:7-22 is the same list of commands as Exodus 20:3-17. Deuteronomy 5:7-22 was written on the two tablets. The two tablets of stone are called the Ten Commandments. Voila! Exodus 20:3-17 are the Ten Commandments.

But they are not the same list that is in chapter 34 that God called the Ten commandments of the covenant and told Moses to write on the Tablets. And most importantly are part of the Mosaic Laws. What you have is a clear contradiction not an establishment of the Ten Commandments. Have fun with it.

And if you have been reading along in the tread the ten moral statements are not part of Mosaic Law because the details are in the Mosaic Laws.....these are summaries of basic morals....and as such fall under a different set of rules. You cannot pull ten laws out out of the body of 613 Mosaic Laws and discard the 603 Laws that would be serious violation of the Mosaic Law and if you follow one of them, you have to follow them all. This is why I say you guys need to take a course on the Mosaic Laws.

I have been trying to get you guys to flip the brain on and think, what was going on there? A lot....but I cannot get you guys to think. Basic summery of laws that are easy to understand that is not going to be "handled" the same way that the physical scrolls of the body of Mosaic Laws are going to be handled. They are exactly what they are....simple....the basic morals of Yahweh, that can be used for instruction. There is more to it but you guys are like dragging around a dead weight.

 

[dad]

I think you're right - he didn't understand anything about anything, but what I'm sure he had was a WILLINGNESS to do whatever the Savior told him to do. Likewise, "when you have done all that your heavenly Father hath commanded you to do, you are to say, We are unprofitable servants, we have only done that which we were supposed to do."

Yes the heart has to be right, the rest will follow. Part of our learning here on earth is making mistakes. People who are willing can ask and be saved. In some cases people have a lot of works and will be rewarded accordingly. In some cases, they did not do all that He commanded. Such as Peter. I don't think God commanded Peter to betray Him repeatedly. However, in the end, we see he did quite a lot. Same with Paul who ran a good race. The thing I am wary of are those who focus on works. If they see someone that looks to them like they may not have a lot of good works, they get self righteous. 'I thank thee God that I am not as those sinners'.

 

[dad]

Agreed.
But what does BELIEVE mean?
Check out the Greek....believe also means to obey.
But I'm sure you agree that we should obey.
It's just that sometimes persons that speak as you do give the impression that they don't think it's really necessary to obey.

What is 'to obey'? Some might say that means coming to their synagogue or church faithfully, giving and etc. Some might say that should include joining the military to serve. Others might say it meant going out to a street corner with a megaphone, or door to door. Others might say it meant staying in a marriage that was rotten. Some might say that means taking a vaccine or recycling a lot to save the planet. Others might think that the ten commandments can be obeyed and that breaking any of those is 'not obeying. Etc etc etc etc etc.

Believe can also mean to drink in. Imbibe. So anyone can tack on whatever they wish there. People should believe in Jesus and do their best to be right with Him. A poster here mentioned that works were evidence that someone was saved. That says nothing. The evidence Jesus talked about was love. His commandment was love. So I would say that love is the best evidence someone knows Him. (as opposed to whatever some might consider works)

 

[dad]

I was agreeing with you and all was fine until you got to baloney...
What is the work of God?
What does 1 Cor 3:15 mean anyway?
2 am here...
to be cont'd.
'night.

It seems to be talking about a person's works.

 

[GEN2REV]

Sin is defined like this--
Thayer's

1. to be without a share in
2. to miss the mark
3. to err, be mistaken
4. to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong
5. to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin

1. No, sin is defined like this:

1 John 3:4

Sin is a Biblical concept that is first introduced by, described and taught by and defined by the Bible.

 

[dad]

1. No, sin is defined like this:

1 John 3:4

Sin is a Biblical concept that is first introduced by, described and taught by and defined by the Bible.

Sin is mentioned in previous books of the bible also. There are many aspects of sin. Lawlessness is one. There are many others such as
James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death

If someone breaks any of the ten commandments I guess we could say they are lawless also. I don't think sin is restricted to being defined as lawlessness. Yes sin is lawlessness, and so is adultery,theft,murder,worshipping other gods,dishonouring parents, etc etc etc.

 

[Grailhunter]

Deuteronomy 5:7-22 is the same list of commands that were listed in Exodus 20:3-17...

7You shall have no other gods before Me.c8You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in the heavens above, on the earth below, or in the waters beneath. 9You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on their children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10but showing loving devotion to a thousand generationsd of those who love Me and keep My commandments.11You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave anyone unpunished who takes His name in vain.12Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you. 13Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God, on which you must not do any work—neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox or donkey or any of your livestock, nor the foreigner within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest as you do. 15Remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. That is why the LORD your God has commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.16Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that your days may be long and that it may go well with you in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.e17You shall not murder.f18You shall not commit adultery.g19You shall not steal.h20You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.i21You shall not covetj your neighbor’s wife. You shall not covet your neighbor’s house or field, or his manservant or maidservant, or his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
​

And it says these are what the Lord wrote on the two tablets of stone...

22The LORD spoke these commandments in a loud voice to your whole assembly out of the fire, the cloud, and the deep darkness on the mountain; He added nothing more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me. Deuteronomy 5:7-22
​

And the two tablets of stone are called the Ten Commandments in Deuteronomy 10:4.

"4And the LORD wrote on the tablets what had been written previously, the Ten Commandments..."​

Did you follow that?
Deuteronomy 5:7-22 is the same list of commands as Exodus 20:3-17. Deuteronomy 5:7-22 was written on the two tablets. The two tablets of stone are called the Ten Commandments. Voila! Exodus 20:3-17 are the Ten Commandments.

Nothing can replace a full course on the Mosaic Law but lets address this one topic.
Take each of the short summaries in chapter 20 and find the full Law in the Torah. When you do that you will see the actual Mosaic Law is more detailed.....So you should be able to see that these are summaries of Laws.

But if you look at the Ten Commandments in chapter 34 they are detailed and are in fact part of the 613 Mosaic Laws.

I am not a preacher....I am a speaker....walking speech. So this is Grailhunter the Johnny Appleseed of truth....I plant seeds of truth....and from there it is between you and Christ. Give you the benefit of seeing the truth....from there it is up to you. You guys may think I am rough....and I will say I have to be because you are hard headed.

Another lesson....note the power of tradition and popular belief because for most, it will override scripture....don't let it do that.
Oh! Three Kings of Orient Are! LOL

 

[Oceanprayers]

Except, that is not what it says.

1 John 1:4
And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
1 John 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1 John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

So how is there some jump there so that is is now talking only to unbelievers?

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Unbelievers have fellowship and walk in the light? The unbelievers are cleaned by His blood?

etc

But that is what it says. We, being the ministers of God's good news. That the joy if those to whom they write may be full.

This verse makes that very obvious.
"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you..."