The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[Phoneman777]

His commandment is to believe in Jesus. As for a sabbath commandment, I don't think that would disagree.

If we believe Jesus was serious when He said keeping His commandments is what those who love Him will do (John 14:15 KJV) and calling Him Lord Lord without doing what He's commanded us to do is rebuke worthy (Luke 6:46 KJV), then that belief should result in keeping all Ten of His commandments, including the seventh day Sabbath, right or wrong?

 

[dad]

Well, dad, you're SUPPOSED to keep the 10 commandments...
whether we can 100% of the time is another question...

John 14:15
15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

His yoke is easy. The old commandments were impossible to keep. No one ever did it.

No one therefore was supposed to! They were supposed to try and see how they failed. Then they would know they needed Him.

John 5:28-29
. 28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.


and many more...

The evil deed that leads to death is rejecting and not believing Jesus. That of course is followed by many other wicked deeds. The ones resurrected to eternal life did the deed of believing in Jesus. Then, of course (moreso in some than others) they also had some good deeds as a result. Those deeds are not what saved them.

 

[Grailhunter]

We don't know if Christians were observing the Sabbath commandment which says to rest from labor and work on the seventh day?

The Disciples Kept the Sabbath 85 Times in the book of Acts - EliYah Ministries

 

[dad]

If we believe Jesus was serious when He said keeping His commandments is what those who love Him will do (John 14:15 KJV) and calling Him Lord Lord without doing what He's commanded us to do is rebuke worthy (Luke 6:46 KJV), then that belief should result in keeping all Ten of His commandments, including the seventh day Sabbath, right or wrong?

No. We should believe that we can't keep the ten commandments. That is why He died. We needed His mercy. The commandments of Jesus were to love others, believe and etc.

 

[GodsGrace]

No the 7th day Sabbath was not ceremonial in that no ceremonies were to be observed on that day. During the time of Christ (and since the time of Ezra-Nehemiah) the Sabbath was a day of rest and worship. Hence Jews went to the synagogues to worship on Sabbath days. Christ Himself went to the synagogues in the same manner, but He also chose to heal on Sabbath days, and that too within synagogues (much to the chagrin of the Pharisees, scribes, and elders).

Going to the Synagogue falls under the Ceremonial Law.

 

[Phoneman777]

Ignatius, a second century Christian Bishop cautioning against Judaizing in his Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians contrasts the Jewish Shabbat practices with the Christian life which includes the Lord's Day:

Let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness. [...] But let every one of you keep the Sabbath after a spiritual manner, rejoicing in meditation on the law, not in relaxation of the body, admiring the workmanship of God, and not eating things prepared the day before, nor using lukewarm drinks, and walking within a prescribed space, nor finding delight in dancing and plaudits which have no sense in them. And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days.

Now as most know the New Testament allow for individuals to choose what day to worship. Some of the early Jewish-Christian observed both day...the Sabbath and the Lord's day. Some chose to combine them....and then eventually the Lord's was seen as a day overall rest.

It is just like reality....nothing changes like a switch. And people had their own opinions and traditions.

Good thing most second century Christians ignored this horrible counsel, according to Sozeman and Scholasticus, right?

When it comes to the ECF, I find they're more credible as church historians than disseminators of truth. For instance, Origen might as well have been a Luciferian (maybe was, to tell the truth) the way his disdain for the absolute necessity of the substitutionary death of Jesus for our salvation exploded up from his writings. And his equally misguided disciple, Eusibius, is who we (likely) have to thank for that toilet paper MSS that found it's way into the hands of Westcott and Hort which they compiled into the infamous Critical Text of the 19th century, upon which all the new NT versions are based.

 

[Oceanprayers]

Originally in Exodus and


Yes....they are a fact post 298 of this thread

Fascinating.
Exodus 34:27 And Jehovah said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.

 

[Phoneman777]

No. We should believe that we can't keep the ten commandments. That is why He died. We needed His mercy. The commandments of Jesus were to love others, believe and etc.

So, we should interpret "all things through Christ which strengthens me" as "all things except turning from sin"?

 

[GodsGrace]

His yoke is easy. The old commandments were impossible to keep. No one ever did it.

No one therefore was supposed to! They were supposed to try and see how they failed. Then they would know they needed Him.

The evil deed that leads to death is rejecting and not believing Jesus. That of course is followed by many other wicked deeds. The ones resurrected to eternal life did the deed of believing in Jesus. Then, of course (moreso in some than others) they also had some good deeds as a result. Those deeds are not what saved them.

If by the Old Commandments you mean the Laws of Moses, then I agree.
Not all the 613 Laws were from God...some were instituted by Moses.

BUT,,,the Israelites WERE SUPPOSED to keep the Law.
God made a Covenant with Moses....
To make it simple, the people were to honor and obey God,,,
They would be His people,
and He would be their God.

But they couldn't obey, as you've stated...but not because they weren't supposed to.
The Law showed them they could not keep it....
But where there is no law, the people are a law unto themselves.
Read chapter 2 of Romans.

And as to John 5:28
The verse if VERY CLEAR.
I find it amazing at how we change what simple verses say to satisfy our own belief system.
This is called eisegesis and is no way to read the bible.

Jesus said that those doing good deeds will be rewarded
and those doing evil deeds will be damned.

Simple.

 

[GodsGrace]

Good thing most second century Christians ignored this horrible counsel, according to Sozeman and Scholasticus, right?

When it comes to the ECF, I find they're more credible as church historians than disseminators of truth. For instance, Origen might as well have been a Luciferian (maybe was, to tell the truth) the way his disdain for the absolute necessity of the substitutionary death of Jesus for our salvation exploded up from his writings. And his equally misguided disciple, Eusibius, is who we (likely) have to thank for that toilet paper MSS that found it's way into the hands of Westcott and Hort which they compiled into the infamous Critical Text of the 19th century, upon which all the new NT versions are based.

What do you mean by the above?
Isn't it Origen that believed in the Ransom Theory of atonement?

 

[dad]

Theories are built on evidence. Moses had to have been embodied alongside Elijah, seeing that the dead "know not anything" and "neither have they anymore a portion forever in anything that is done under the sun"

Those who go to be with Jesus do not do things under the sun here. This is news?

which means Moses had to have been resurrected. Just a bit o' evidence, but there's more to be found in Scripture.

No. The angels appeared from heaven. That does not mean they were anything but creatures from heaven. That reminds me of Abraham. When did Abraham rejoice to see Jesus's day? Was that in Ur? In his tent? Maybe that refers to after he died and met Jesus?

There's no conflict with Scripture?

• All three dead guys are in possession of resurrection bodies almost two thousand years before a still-future resurrection?

Who said they had bodies? Do angels have bodies too? All we know is that they were there and visible for a while to the apostles. If we are going to be with Jesus when we die, we will have some sort of body. Spiritual or whatever.

• 
  
  

  [*]
  
  [*]Or, Abraham's bosom being many square miles in size?

  
  The saved guy went to be with his fathers. That is referred to as Abraham's bosom. From there he was allowed to see across to where the other guy had gone.
• 
  

• Or, that Lazarus can return to warn the brothers though the dead have nothing to do with anything under this sun?

  It didn't say he was allowed to return. It just talks about how even if he were it would do no good.

• Or, that the Rich Man can devise plans though Scripture says there's "no device" in the grave?

• There are plenty of devices where we are with Jesus! None back on earth in that dirt though, of course.
• 
  

• Or, these dead can see, break silence, remember, express emotion, etc. when Scripture says none of this is possible?

  False. You just misunderstood. The people crying out to God in the Tribulation for vengeance had emotions! The fellow servant John was about to bow down to up in heaven remembered he was just a fellow servant like John. There is not silence in heaven! There will be one day for a half hour, but that is the exception.

Not to mention, there's no way a man fully engulfed in flames can hold a conversation, let alone be thinking about others.

Yes there is.

If I subscribed to Eternal Torment theology and claimed Jesus went to Paradise, I'd want to back that up - but it can't be backed up. It seems there's confusion over whether on Friday He went to a Paradise that was down when Scripture says it's up, or He went to a "prison" to preach the Gospel, or He went to "hell" for some odd reason...I'll tell you where Jesus went: THE GRAVE.

Jesus went to prepare a place for us. That is up. When He died he went down. Yes He preached to spirits in prison there.

Revelation is a pretty symbolic book. Since "the life aka soul is in the blood" and blood drains down under the altar of sacrifice, the "crying out" of the martyrs is no different than Abel's blood crying out: it simply means justice crying out in the sight of God to be done against evildoers.

No. They said certain words. It was not some feeling or something to do with blood on earth.

 

[Oceanprayers]

If you have no trespasses against others then you can talk. Peter was not perfect after he believed. If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves.

1 John 1 and starting at verse 5 is written to unbelievers.

 

[dad]

If we believe Jesus was serious when He said keeping His commandments is what those who love Him will do (John 14:15 KJV) and calling Him Lord Lord without doing what He's commanded us to do is rebuke worthy (Luke 6:46 KJV), then that belief should result in keeping all Ten of His commandments, including the seventh day Sabbath, right or wrong?

Wrong. No one ever kept the ten commandments. He commanded us to love and believe.

 

[dad]

So, we should interpret "all things through Christ which strengthens me" as "all things except turning from sin"?

We should have some balance and wisdom, yes. Otherwise some might take that to mean that they can jump across the lawn to Mars, put the planet in their pocket and jump back.

 

[Grailhunter]

Fascinating.
Exodus 34:27 And Jehovah said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.

I keep trying to point out that people should consider what the ten moral statements in Chapter 20 are for. Why did God start out with those moral statements. They are more or less summaries of some of the actual Mosaic Laws. And they have a significance that is important. They are just not the covenant commandments and they are not part of the Mosaic Laws.

If they were, people could not take ten laws and discard the other 603 Mosaic Laws because that would be a serious violation of the Mosaic Laws. And not all are really relevant to Christians. As it is the Apostles mentioned some of these. But not all of them. The command for observing the Jewish Sabbath is not mentioned. Paul was not going around commanding Gentile-Christians to observe the Jewish Sabbath....that was settled at the meeting between Paul and James in Jerusalem to get the Judaizers off of Paul's back.

Of course we do not observe the moratorium on engraved images.

And modern Christians do not consider women as part of their property....the do not covet rule.

 

[dad]

If by the Old Commandments you mean the Laws of Moses, then I agree.
Not all the 613 Laws were from God...some were instituted by Moses.

BUT,,,the Israelites WERE SUPPOSED to keep the Law.
God made a Covenant with Moses....
To make it simple, the people were to honor and obey God,,,
They would be His people,
and He would be their God.

But they couldn't obey, as you've stated...but not because they weren't supposed to.
The Law showed them they could not keep it....
But where there is no law, the people are a law unto themselves.
Read chapter 2 of Romans.

And as to John 5:28
The verse if VERY CLEAR.
I find it amazing at how we change what simple verses say to satisfy our own belief system.
This is called eisegesis and is no way to read the bible.

Jesus said that those doing good deeds will be rewarded
and those doing evil deeds will be damned.

Simple.

He said a lot of things as did those He inspired to write the bible for us.
example

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin

Yes Christians will be rewarded one day and some will have few rewards etc. That has nothing to do with salvation.

 

[dad]

1 John 1 and starting at verse 5 is written to unbelievers.

Except, that is not what it says.

1 John 1:4
And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
1 John 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1 John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

So how is there some jump there so that is is now talking only to unbelievers?

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Unbelievers have fellowship and walk in the light? The unbelievers are cleansed by His blood?

etc

 

[GodsGrace]

He said a lot of things as did those He inspired to write the bible for us.
example

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin

Yes Christians will be rewarded one day and some will have few rewards etc. That has nothing to do with salvation.

Where did Jesus mention rewards in John 5:28??

The deeds of the Law just means that if we have NO FAITH
but do works, like donating money to the poor but the donator does not believe in God,
that person will not be saved.

We must have faith first,,,
and then we must also do good deeds/works.

Faith without works is a DEAD FAITH.
James 2

A dead faith is NO FAITH...
No faith means no salvation.

 

[dad]

I keep trying to point out that people should consider what the ten moral statements in Chapter 20 are for. Why did God start out with those moral statements. They are more or less summaries of some of the actual Mosaic Laws. And they have a significance that is important. They are just not the covenant commandments and they are not part of the Mosaic Laws.

If they were, people could not take ten laws and discard the other 603 Mosaic Laws because that would be a serious violation of the Mosaic Laws. And not all are really relevant to Christians. As it is the Apostles mentioned some of these. But not all of them. The command for observing the Jewish Sabbath is not mentioned. Paul was not going around commanding Gentile-Christians to observe the Jewish Sabbath....that was settled at the meeting between Paul and James in Jerusalem to get the Judaizers off of Paul's back.

Of course we do not observe the moratorium on engraved images.

And modern Christians do not consider women as part of their property....the do not covet rule.

Take all six hundred and whatever laws and forget about it as something we need to totally keep. Anyone that even had a hateful glance at a brother is guilty of murder. The law is dead, or we are dead to the law to be more precise. The laws never saved anyone and never will.

 

[GodsGrace]

He said a lot of things as did those He inspired to write the bible for us.
example

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin

Yes Christians will be rewarded one day and some will have few rewards etc. That has nothing to do with salvation.

What do you think DOES have to do with salvation?
Is it necessary to obey God?