The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[Oceanprayers]

Did Jesus die to save us from our sin or in our sin?

Your question, your answer.

 

[Oceanprayers]

They were not observing the Sabbath in Christ era, the way that the Torah described it.

The point being, they observed the Sabbath.
Which is contrary to what some say should be happening today on the Christian community.
No sabbath . Yet they go to church on Sunday.

 

[Oceanprayers]

LOL
More than one way to get to heaven...Enoch and Elijah and the thief on the cross...no repentance, no baptism, no bread and wine ritual.

And it you guys that have the alternative Ten Commandments....I have the set that God called the Ten Commandment, The Ten Commandment that set the covenant, the Ten Commandments that God told Moses to write on the two Tablets of the Testimony.

But I man not going to call you a shyster, or canine or thief.....I could say ignorant of the scriptures but a good student of popular opinion.

Have you ever listed those 10 alternative ten commands you defend?

 

[GEN2REV]

So what happened with Enoch and Elijah? That is your bible too right?

Nobody can come to Jesus unless God draws them.
John 6:44
Nobody can get to God but by Jesus.
John 14:6
Jesus told the disciples all about His time with the prophets of old.
Luke 24:27

Enoch and Elijah lived by Jesus' way all their lives. They arrived at salvation by Jesus.

 

[Grailhunter]

Originally in Exodus and

Have you ever listed those 10 alternative ten commands you defend?

Yes....they are a fact post 298 of this thread

 

[Oceanprayers]

Nobody can come to Jesus unless God draws them.
John 6:44
Nobody can get to God but by Jesus.
John 14:6
Jesus told the disciples all about His time with the prophets of old.
Luke 24:27

Enoch and Elijah lived by Jesus' way all their lives. They arrived at salvation by Jesus.

Indeed. No one comes to the Father but through me.

The thief on the cross was saved by his faith. He knew who the man on the cross beside him was. And he repented.

 

[Phoneman777]

Maybe we should not confuse 'the evidence' with 'one particular theory'. Satan may protest if he likes, he doesn't really get a vote.

Theories are built on evidence. Moses had to have been embodied alongside Elijah, seeing that the dead "know not anything" and "neither have they anymore a portion forever in anything that is done under the sun" which means Moses had to have been resurrected. Just a bit o' evidence, but there's more to be found in Scripture.

I see none at all. Perhaps it conflicts with your theory. Easily solved. Dump the theory.

There's no conflict with Scripture?

• All three dead guys are in possession of resurrection bodies almost two thousand years before a still-future resurrection?
• Or, Abraham's bosom being many square miles in size?
• Or, that Lazarus can return to warn the brothers though the dead have nothing to do with anything under this sun?
• Or, that the Rich Man can devise plans though Scripture says there's "no device" in the grave?
• Or, these dead can see, break silence, remember, express emotion, etc. when Scripture says none of this is possible?

Not to mention, there's no way a man fully engulfed in flames can hold a conversation, let alone be thinking about others.

So? The point was that wherever it was (and Jesus did go into the heart of the earth) who really cares? Being with Him and saved is what matters.

If I subscribed to Eternal Torment theology and claimed Jesus went to Paradise, I'd want to back that up - but it can't be backed up. It seems there's confusion over whether on Friday He went to a Paradise that was down when Scripture says it's up, or He went to a "prison" to preach the Gospel, or He went to "hell" for some odd reason...I'll tell you where Jesus went: THE GRAVE.

I notice people are in heaven and very conscious also. They were crying out for revenge to God.

Revelation is a pretty symbolic book. Since "the life aka soul is in the blood" and blood drains down under the altar of sacrifice, the "crying out" of the martyrs is no different than Abel's blood crying out: it simply means justice crying out in the sight of God to be done against evildoers.

 

[GodsGrace]

All ten commandments are moral imperatives.

You're going to have to explain HOW.
How is keeping the Sabbath a moral imperative?
Going to the synagogue
Not working (physical)
Remembering God and praying

How are these not ceremonial?
Where does morality come into play?

 

[Grailhunter]

The point being, they observed the Sabbath.
Which is contrary to what some say should be happening today on the Christian community.
No sabbath . Yet they go to church on Sunday.

I am just saying that observation of the Sabbath changed as time went on....some of it made sense and some of it did not.
In Exodus it was simple and made sense.....the Sabbath was made for man in observance of the day that God rested....for people to rest from their labors...a day of rest...simple concept...do not work....stay home. No cooking food....but that did not mean not to eat good....just prepared foods and wine...

The Jews had traditions....wash hands before you eat. Say a prayer together before you eat. Sensible stuff, you could put wood on the fire, but you could not cut it. You could go to the "rest room" pull back the covers when you went to bed...etc

The first Temple period changed things and the Bible does not get into the reasons, the whys, and all the hows. But the Sabbath begins to change into a day of worship....even of animal sacrifices....are you going to go to the Temple without sacrifices. Synagogues

The second Temple period is where things got a little strange and that was because of the Pharisees. They just tried to make it hard on people.

 

[Phoneman777]

They were not observing the Sabbath in Christ era, the way that the Torah described it.

I know they were observing the Sabbath according to the Ten Commandments in the A.D. Christianity. 5th century church historian Socrates Scholasticus writes:

“For although almost all churches throughout The World celebrated the sacred mysteries (the Lord’s Supper) on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition (SATANIC SUN WORSHIP), refuse to do this.” – Socrates, “Ecclestical History,” Book 5, chap. 22, p. 289.
​

And also Sozeman:

“The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria.” – Socrates, “Ecclesiastical History,” Book 7, chap.19.
​

Of course, bigoted preachers all across the fruited plain NEVER tell us this, preferring to exalt tradition above the Word of God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Do you keep these commandments? It seems Paul mentioned they were more or less to show us that no one could keep them, which is why we need Jesus to save us.

Well, dad, you're SUPPOSED to keep the 10 commandments...
whether we can 100% of the time is another question...

John 14:15
15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

John 5:28-29
. 28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.


and many more...

 

[Phoneman777]

Your question, your answer.

 

[GodsGrace]

I am just saying that observation of the Sabbath changed as time went on....some of it made sense and some of it did not.
In Exodus it was simple and made sense.....the Sabbath was made for man in observance of the day that God rested....for people to rest from their labors...a day of rest...simple concept...do not work....stay home. No cooking food....but that did not mean not to eat good....just prepared foods and wine...

The Jews had traditions....wash hands before you eat. Say a prayer together before you eat. Sensible stuff, you could put wood on the fire, but you could not cut it. You could go to the "rest room" pull back the covers when you went to bed...etc

The first Temple period changed things and the Bible does not get into the reasons, the whys, and all the hows. But the Sabbath begins to change into a day of worship....even of animal sacrifices....are you going to go to the Temple without sacrifices. Synagogues

The second Temple period is where things got a little strange and that was because of the Pharisees. They just tried to make it hard on people.

We wouldn't be able to drive on Saturday.
Or go to work.
Or who knows what else I can't think of right now.
It wouldn't even be possible in our culture,
Some give it their all and I can admire that.

The ECFs did NOT celebrate the Sabbath.
They changed to worshipping on Sunday to celebrate Jesus' resurrection.
I tend to go with that.

Also, I do believe the Sabbath was given to Moses because the Israelites had been enslaved for so long that they forgot what a civil type of life consisted of. They were happy just to survive.

If we notice in the Laws of Moses, they all are concerned with day to day living and how to behave in different circumstances.

Resting one day was imperative since they had worked for 7 days for so long.
At that time it was the Sabbath because it was the 7th day when God also rested.
I don't think what day we rest is really important after Jesus' sacrifice - as long as it's done.

 

[Grailhunter]

I know they were observing the Sabbath according to the Ten Commandments in the A.D.

I guess you do not know.....I tried to explain it simply now you can go to your Bible and find where the Sabbath in Exodus was a day of worship and animal sacrifices. And when we get to Christ time we can look up all the rules and restrictions that the Pharisees put on the Sabbath to make it miserable for everyone.

 

[GodsGrace]

The fourth commandment tells us in Exodus 20:8-11
We are to remember it as a memorial to God being the Creator.

It asks us to Remember. It is not a prohibition and there is nothing ceremonial about it.

Going to synagogue is not ceremonial?
How is it a moral law?

 

[GodsGrace]

I am just saying that observation of the Sabbath changed as time went on....some of it made sense and some of it did not.
In Exodus it was simple and made sense.....the Sabbath was made for man in observance of the day that God rested....for people to rest from their labors...a day of rest...simple concept...do not work....stay home. No cooking food....but that did not mean not to eat good....just prepared foods and wine...

The Jews had traditions....wash hands before you eat. Say a prayer together before you eat. Sensible stuff, you could put wood on the fire, but you could not cut it. You could go to the "rest room" pull back the covers when you went to bed...etc

The first Temple period changed things and the Bible does not get into the reasons, the whys, and all the hows. But the Sabbath begins to change into a day of worship....even of animal sacrifices....are you going to go to the Temple without sacrifices. Synagogues

The second Temple period is where things got a little strange and that was because of the Pharisees. They just tried to make it hard on people.

Jesus actually said that the Pharisees were keeping people far away from God by concentrating on the Law.

Matthew 23:13
13“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

Then He goes on to tell them why.
And Jesus said God is to be worshipped in spirit...

 

[dad]

"Being saved is not a license to pretend we never sin and are better than others!"
If you call yourself a sinner when caring yourself a Christian, you're wrong about the latter and correct about the former.
Because you're saying Jesus death was of no effect.

If you have no trespasses against others then you can talk. Peter was not perfect after he believed. If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves.

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

Sin is defined like this--
Thayer's

1. to be without a share in
2. to miss the mark
3. to err, be mistaken
4. to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong
5. to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin

Strong's
Perhaps from G1 (as a negative particle) and the base of G3313; properly to miss the mark (and so not share in the prize), that is, (figuratively) to err, especially (morally) to sin: - for your faults, offend, sin, trespass.

Mounce's
to sin, do wrong; usually to do any act contrary to the will and law of God

The other kind of sin unto death is rejecting Jesus and His gift of eternal life.

So if you don't want to use the word sin for believers, no problem. However as far as many people are concerned using the word sin is fine for a Christian. We know what it means and what we are talking about. If you want to get deeper and talk about how believers do not sin unto death and sin in that sense of the word where sin refers to rejecting Jesus and His Holy Spirit, well, fine. You would need to make it clear that we are not talking about mistakes and sins in the normal sense of the word.

 

[dad]

Doesn't the Sabbath commandment itself say how it is to be kept?

His commandment is to believe in Jesus. As for a sabbath commandment, I don't think that would disagree.

 

[Phoneman777]

I guess you do not know.....I tried to explain it simply now you can go to your Bible and find where the Sabbath in Exodus was a day of worship and animal sacrifices. And when we get to Christ time we can look up all the rules and restrictions that the Pharisees put on the Sabbath to make it miserable for everyone.

We don't know if Christians were observing the Sabbath commandment which says to rest from labor and work on the seventh day? I just posted two quotes from dudes who lived back then.

The Mosaic Law was nailed "to His Cross" but the Ten Commandments "stand fast forever and ever and are done in truth and uprightness" according to what Psalms 111:7-8 KJV says about the works of God's hands with which He carved out and wrote out the Ten Commandments.

 

[Grailhunter]

I know they were observing the Sabbath according to the Ten Commandments in the A.D. Christianity. 5th century church historian Socrates Scholasticus writes:

“For although almost all churches throughout The World celebrated the sacred mysteries (the Lord’s Supper) on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition (SATANIC SUN WORSHIP), refuse to do this.” – Socrates, “Ecclestical History,” Book 5, chap. 22, p. 289.
​

And also Sozeman:

“The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria.” – Socrates, “Ecclesiastical History,” Book 7, chap.19.
​

Of course, bigoted preachers all across the fruited plain NEVER tell us this, preferring to exalt tradition above the Word of God.

Ignatius, a second century Christian Bishop cautioning against Judaizing in his Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians contrasts the Jewish Shabbat practices with the Christian life which includes the Lord's Day:

Let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness. [...] But let every one of you keep the Sabbath after a spiritual manner, rejoicing in meditation on the law, not in relaxation of the body, admiring the workmanship of God, and not eating things prepared the day before, nor using lukewarm drinks, and walking within a prescribed space, nor finding delight in dancing and plaudits which have no sense in them. And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days.

Now as most know the New Testament allow for individuals to choose what day to worship. Some of the early Jewish-Christian observed both day...the Sabbath and the Lord's day. Some chose to combine them....and then eventually the Lord's Day was seen as a day overall rest.

It is just like reality....nothing changes like a switch. And people had their own opinions and traditions.