The 144,000 before God at the end.

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amigo de christo

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AGREE

@amigo de christo points to the Walls of the City lead to only One Door/Entrance = 1 Peter ch2

"Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."
Thats what i have been trying to tell folks . Even we are a stone upon stone in that house .
AND IT IS ALL BASED UPON GOD , UPON HIS CHRIST . there will be no diverse and strange stones IN THAT .
nor will there be many and diverse paths to IT . NOR any way at all INTO IT , BUT BY GOD , BY JESUS CHRIST .
IF a jew or a gentile DENIES JESUS AS THE CHRIST , i tell us all THEY DENY GOD . and this is aboslute truth .
Ye cannot DENY GOD and expect a good end either . IF one denies HIS WORD they DENY GOD .
IF one denies TRUTH , they have DENIED GOD who is TRUTH , CHRIST WHO IS TRUTH .
GET IN THOSE BIBLES and stay in those bibles . David we got so many decievers in these last hours upon earth .
But the lambs shall not heed them .
Shew me thy Way that i may walk therein . WELL JESUS IS THE WAY and we must walk THEREIN .
GOD has made the WAY and JESUS IS THE WAY unto the FATHER . AND when i say WAY
i dont mean a way , I MEAN THE ONLY WAY .
 

The Light

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The Church and the 144,000

Revelation 7:3-4 describe the 144,000 as “sealed.” That description is reserved in the NT for believers in Christ – His Body and Bride – His Church:

2 Corinthians 1:21-22
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


The Revelation 7 passage is therefore conveying the insight that the OT Israelitish faithful obedient saints of God are included under the NT banner of the Church. This is further confirmed by the meanings of the names of the listed tribes and substitutes (Levi and Joseph replacing Dan and Ephraim), describing spiritual qualities and experiences of those who comprise the Church:
Judah means “praise” (Gen 29:35)
Reuben means “see, a Son” (Gen 29:32)
Gad means “fortunate” (Gen 30:11)
Asher means “happy” (Gen 30:13)
Naphtali means “wrestling” (Gen 30:8)
Manasseh means “forgetting” (Gen 41:51)
Simeon means “heard” (Gen 29:33)
Levi means “attached” (Gen 29:34)
Issachar means “wages” (Gen 30:18)
Zebulon means “dwelling” (Gen 30:20)
Joseph means “He will add” (Gen 30:24)
Benjamin means “Son of the right hand” (Gen 35:17–18)

Similarly, the meanings of the names of Dan and Ephraim convey the reasons for their exclusion:

Dan means “a serpent by the way”(Genesis 49:17)
Satan in the guise of the serpent was responsible for the fall of mankind in Genesis 3, and for the bruising of Messiah's heel in Scripture's first recorded prophecy of Genesis 3:15. It was the same serpent Satan whose head Messiah bruised at Calvary.

Ephraim means “fruitful in the land of mine affliction” (Genesis 41:52)
The reference to “the land of mine affliction” in Ephraim's name's meaning is to that of Egypt, which in Scripture is both a literal and spiritual reality and symbol of bondage. But the Church, God's Chosen People, do not inhabit a land of spiritual affliction and bondage. Rather, they inhabit the Heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Sion (Hebrews 12:22,23), located in the Heavenly Country that God has prepared for the faithful (Hebrews 11:16).

Of additional significance is the order in which the names are presented, differing from the usual presentation by order of birth. In particular, Judah appears first, in recognition of its role as the tribal progenitor of Christ, the Lion of Judah.

While rebellion and apostasy were repetitive afflictions of the OT Israelites, there were still thousands who remained faithful (1 Kings 19:18). Their number is depicted as 12, a scriptural value representing faithfulness; multiplied by 12, representing the faithful from each of the twelve tribes; multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number (Psalms 50:10; Psalms 91:7; Revelation 5:11) of the total faithful in Israel; thus, 144,000.

Revelation 14 continues the descriptions further reflecting the qualities and experiences of the redeemed – the Church. Absent here is any mention of tribal, ethnic, or other distinctions, thus conveying the reality of the inclusivity and unity of the NT Church which now embraces both Israelite and Gentile. Its number can also be depicted as 12, representing faithfulness; multipled by 12 representing the 12 faithful apostles, who with the prophets comprise the foundation of the NT church, with Christ as the Chief Cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20); multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number of the total faithful in the NT Church; thus, also 144,000.

The NT Church's inclusivity and unity are declared in the following:

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:14
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall…

Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.


The 144,00 are described as celibate, meaning that as the Bride of Christ, they are not defiled by adultery with the world (James 4:4). They sing a new song of deliverance and victory. They follow Christ wherever He goes. Their residence is heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Zion. (Hebrews 12:22)

No doubt about it…the Church is written all over the 144,000.
Well the Church will be in heaven before the seals are opened. The 144,000 are first fruits. That means there will be a harvest of those of the 12 tribes and the 144,000 are the first fruits of this coming harvest.

This is basic stuff. No need to make anything up. The answer is already given.
 

David in NJ

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Thats what i have been trying to tell folks . Even we are a stone upon stone in that house .
AND IT IS ALL BASED UPON GOD , UPON HIS CHRIST . there will be no diverse and strange stones IN THAT .
nor will there be many and diverse paths to IT . NOR any way at all INTO IT , BUT BY GOD , BY JESUS CHRIST .
IF a jew or a gentile DENIES JESUS AS THE CHRIST , i tell us all THEY DENY GOD . and this is aboslute truth .
Ye cannot DENY GOD and expect a good end either . IF one denies HIS WORD they DENY GOD .
IF one denies TRUTH , they have DENIED GOD who is TRUTH , CHRIST WHO IS TRUTH .
GET IN THOSE BIBLES and stay in those bibles . David we got so many decievers in these last hours upon earth .
But the lambs shall not heed them .
Shew me thy Way that i may walk therein . WELL JESUS IS THE WAY and we must walk THEREIN .
GOD has made the WAY and JESUS IS THE WAY unto the FATHER . AND when i say WAY
i dont mean a way , I MEAN THE ONLY WAY .
And we as "living stones" of God's Building/Temple always tell those on the outside to go to CHRIST for Entrance into Eternal Life.
 
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amigo de christo

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a man cannot come to GOD through another way . Darkness leadeth not to light nor to GOD
Any other religion is of darkness and the father of lies .
THERE is but ONE WAY TO GOD , ITS THROUGH GOD , ITS IN JESUS CHRIST .
Get that engrained to the core of the innermost of your beings .
For many decievers abound and through a love that cometh of the world are decieving many
right to perdition , right to the Son of perdition , right to the lake that burneth will fire .
ITS that serious . EITHER WE BELIEVE GOD or we dont . AND IF WE DONT BELIEVE JESUS , WE DONT BELIEVE GOD .
That IS A FACT .
 

amigo de christo

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And we as "living stones" of God's Building/Temple always tell those on the outside to go to CHRIST for Entrance into Eternal Life.
THUS we dont HEED pope francis and those false men . LIES DONT SAVE . and any love born of of a lie
cannot save , and it aint the LOVE that cometh of GOD . PREACH JESUS and the DIRE NEED to believe on HIM
teaching all things HE did teach , reminding all to be hearers and doers of the WORD .
And let us never do as the many now do . FOR THEY OFFER UP a false hope , a false love , AND IT CANNOT SAVE .
 

David in NJ

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a man cannot come to GOD through another way . Darkness leadeth not to light nor to GOD
Any other religion is of darkness and the father of lies .
THERE is but ONE WAY TO GOD , ITS THROUGH GOD , ITS IN JESUS CHRIST .
Get that engrained to the core of the innermost of your beings .
For many decievers abound and through a love that cometh of the world are decieving many
right to perdition , right to the Son of perdition , right to the lake that burneth will fire .
ITS that serious . EITHER WE BELIEVE GOD or we dont . AND IF WE DONT BELIEVE JESUS , WE DONT BELIEVE GOD .
That IS A FACT .

JESUS says: "If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!"
 
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amigo de christo

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JESUS says: "If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!"
And yet many put LIGHT for darkness and darkness for LIGHT
MANY think they have the light and yet preach darkness .
But marvel not . cause paul also said something .
SATAN himself can appear as an angel of LIGHT . BUT WE KNOW HE AINT LIGHT , HE BE DARKNESS .
And no marvel that his men can stand right in front of a church , LEAD a church , appear as men of righteousness
YET BE DECIEVERS of the dark one . MANY now follow the light that be darkness and GREAT IT IS within them .
and leadeth them to greater darkness and unto destruction and perdtiion of ungodly men under THE JUDGMENT OF GOD
who will JUDGE THEM THROUGH HIS WORD , HIS SON .
OH YEAH . JESUS IS GONNA tread the winepress of the wrath of GOD . And budda nor any other false
prophet can deliver the peoples who sat under them .
ANd now for a very stern reminder to these charlatons of the harlot who decieve our churches .
GREATER DAMNATION awaits them . for under pretence DID THEY DO as THEY DID and led the FLOCKS astray .
AND as with the prophet so too with the people who sat under them .
WE GOTS TO BIBLE THIS GENERATION UP and FAST my friend .
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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Correct as you say: "We weren't "born again" of blood." = this underscores the symbolism of the 144k

John 1:10-13 is your starting point and your first LOOK at the evidence which builds upon this Foundation.
I just refuted that verse as being applicable to Rev. 7 & 14. Try harder to overwhelm me.
 

amigo de christo

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JESUS says: "If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!"
And if the love that be in one cometh of the world and not of GOD , THEN HOW FALSE THAT LOVE IS that be in them .
Many are getting lulled to sleep by a love that cometh of the world , is for the world and the things therein , the lusts of the flesh
IF the love that be in a man REJOICES NOT IN THE TRUTH , THEN IT AINT COMING FROM GOD but rather is of the world .
THAT TOO is very true my friend .
 
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David in NJ

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I just refuted that verse as being applicable to Rev. 7 & 14. Try harder to overwhelm me.

It is impossible for John 1:10-13 to be refuted, except thru unbelief.

Revelation is written with symbolism mixed in with literal.

Here is more overwhelming evidence = 144k just so happens(lol) to be the dimensions of the Temple

Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. And he who talked with me had a gold reed to measure the city, its gates, and its wall. The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed: twelve thousand furlongs. Its length, breadth, and height are equal. Then he measured its wall: one hundred and forty-four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel. The construction of its wall was of jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass. The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.
 

amigo de christo

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I dont think its coinicidence either . Though it do not understand . I do not understand the whole picture .
YET for a while now i have percieved there to be a connection BETWEEN the hundred and forty four thousand
and the one hundred and forty four cubits of that wall .
I also see other connections too . Like the twelve foundations , the twelve gates .
IT all points to JESUS too . Though i do not understand it .
BUT THERE DOES SEEM TO BE a CONNECTION . that much i DO SEE .
 

David in NJ

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I dont think its coinicidence either . Though it do not understand . I do not understand the whole picture .
YET for a while now i have percieved there to be a connection BETWEEN the hundred and forty four thousand
and the one hundred and forty four cubits of that wall .
I also see other connections too . Like the twelve foundations , the twelve gates .
IT all points to JESUS too . Though i do not understand it .
BUT THERE DOES SEEM TO BE a CONNECTION . that much i DO SEE .
This is how TRUTH comes to us at first = God opens our eyes to SEE but not yet fully understand.

As we agree with what our Heavenly Father is showing us, then the understanding grows within us.
 
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amigo de christo

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This is how TRUTH comes to us at first = God opens our eyes to SEE but not yet fully understand.

As we agree with what our Heavenly Father is showing us, then the understanding grows within us.
THEN there is something else too my friend .
The third horse . the black horse . NOTICE what it says
Concering the wine and the oil . THAT SOUNDS LIKE THE CHURCH . IT WILL BE PROTECTED from the famines .
Just like GOD once told the one with the INKHORN .
BEFORE GOD UNLEASHED HIS WRATH . HE said GO and mark the men who cry and sigh because of all THE ABOMINATIONS
GOD was SEALING THEM WITH HIS MARK , meaning THEY WOULD BE PROTECTED .
I THINK ITS the same thing with the BLACK HORSE . meaning of course we wont be affected by the famines . GOD IS WITH THE LAMBS
 
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David in NJ

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This is how TRUTH comes to us at first = God opens our eyes to SEE but not yet fully understand.

As we agree with what our Heavenly Father is showing us, then the understanding grows within us.
Here is more Truth that 'connects' = Mark 10:6 , Ephesians ch5

But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh.
Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.
This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Have you noticed that 'pre-trib' rapture always divides what God has joined together.
 
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covenantee

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Well the Church will be in heaven before the seals are opened. The 144,000 are first fruits. That means there will be a harvest of those of the 12 tribes and the 144,000 are the first fruits of this coming harvest.

This is basic stuff. No need to make anything up. The answer is already given.
What I've presented extols Christ, His Gospel, His finished work at Calvary, and His faithful obedient saints through the ages.

If you have Scripture which disproves such, please present yours.
 
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David in NJ

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Well the Church will be in heaven before the seals are opened. The 144,000 are first fruits. That means there will be a harvest of those of the 12 tribes and the 144,000 are the first fruits of this coming harvest.

This is basic stuff. No need to make anything up. The answer is already given.
@Ronald David Bruno @The Light

Here is even MORE overwhelming evidence = the symbolic 144,000 are first fruits unto God

HELLO HELLO - this should be a Bright Neon Sign to you

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
 

rebuilder 454

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Well the Church will be in heaven before the seals are opened. The 144,000 are first fruits. That means there will be a harvest of those of the 12 tribes and the 144,000 are the first fruits of this coming harvest.

This is basic stuff. No need to make anything up. The answer is already given.
Bingo.
Looks like you read it just like what it says.
Others reject it, opting for a cunning "spiritual" reframing of the 144k to fit their doctrine.
 

rebuilder 454

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Well the Church will be in heaven before the seals are opened. The 144,000 are first fruits. That means there will be a harvest of those of the 12 tribes and the 144,000 are the first fruits of this coming harvest.

This is basic stuff. No need to make anything up. The answer is already given.
Bingo.
Looks like you read it just like what it says.
Others reject it, opting for a cunning "spiritual" reframing of the 144k to fit their doctrine.
 

The Light

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Bingo.
Looks like you read it just like what it says.
Others reject it, opting for a cunning "spiritual" reframing of the 144k to fit their doctrine.
If you want to understand scripture, just read what it says. Scripture will tell you if it's symbolic.

If people would just realize that the 144,000 are first fruits of the second harvest they would see what is going to happen. You start making things up and you are off the path.
 

rebuilder 454

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@Ronald David Bruno @The Light

Here is even MORE overwhelming evidence = the symbolic 144,000 are first fruits unto God

HELLO HELLO - this should be a Bright Neon Sign to you

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
Nope, nope, nope
Christ the firstfruits is in heaven.
We, the church are "MAIN HARVEST".
The 144k are firstfruit JEWS.
It is impossible to miss.
It is EXPLICITLY spelled out and listed.
SMH