The 144,000 before God at the end.

[The Light]

Nope, nope, nope
Christ the firstfruits is in heaven.
We, the church are "MAIN HARVEST".
The 144k are firstfruit JEWS.
It is impossible to miss.
It is EXPLICITLY spelled out and listed.
SMH

Many can't see because they are taught that they have replaced Israel.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Nope, nope, nope
Christ the firstfruits is in heaven.
We, the church are "MAIN HARVEST".
The 144k are firstfruit JEWS.
It is impossible to miss.
It is EXPLICITLY spelled out and listed.
SMH

Yet another thing that is impossible to miss.
It is 2 SEPARATE gatherings.
No way to make it into something else.
It even says in romans "..till the time of the gentiles is complete" and in ch 11 that he will bring the Jews in last.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Many can't see because they are taught that they have replaced Israel.

The postribbers overplayed their hand.
What a quandary, to position oneself outside the Word with the singular trap of "He only comes once...and that is the rapture"
A babe in Christ with a bible can see that is wacko.

 

[The Light]

@Ronald David Bruno @The Light

Here is even MORE overwhelming evidence = the symbolic 144,000 are first fruits unto God

HELLO HELLO - this should be a Bright Neon Sign to you

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

This proves nothing about the 144,000 being symbolic of the Church. These verses say that Christ is first fruits of those that sleep meaning that there will be a harvest of the dead.

When the Lord returns for the Church, Pretrib those that are Christs at His coming will be raised and go with Him. The barley harvest. He will return for the alive believers that remain. The wheat harvest.

Then there are 144,000 first fruits of the next harvest will be of the 12 tribes. They that are Christs at His coming at the sixth seal, dead and alive will go to the place prepared in heaven. This is the fruit harvest.

 

[The Light]

The postribbers overplayed their hand.
What a quandary, to position oneself outside the Word with the singular trap of "He only comes once...and that is the rapture"
A babe in Christ with a bible can see that is wacko.

What's also strange is that these supposed post tribbers don't realize they are really post wrathers as the tribulation is over at the 6th seal.

 

[David in NJ]

Nope, nope, nope
Christ the firstfruits is in heaven.
We, the church are "MAIN HARVEST".
The 144k are firstfruit JEWS.
It is impossible to miss.
It is EXPLICITLY spelled out and listed.
SMH

keep SYH, maybe something will come out

 

[covenantee]

Bingo.
Looks like you read it just like what it says.
Others reject it, opting for a cunning "spiritual" reframing of the 144k to fit their doctrine.

I'm sorry that it's too cunning for you.

So just leave it for those for whom it isn't.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I'm sorry that it's too cunning for you.

So just leave it for those for whom it isn't.

Point me to where you came to the conclusion it can not be anything but spiritual

 

[rebuilder 454]

keep SYH, maybe something will come out

You always go to the belittle gig.
That is the low road.

 

[rebuilder 454]

keep SYH, maybe something will come out

It is literal as the bible depicts.
Clue
The flying scorpions.
" dont hurt the grass or the trees."
What is that "spiritually" and who are you to make anything literal into some spiritual deal????

 

[covenantee]

Point me to where you came to the conclusion it can not be anything but spiritual

Where do you get that idea?

The Church is both a spiritual and a physical organism.

 

[Keraz]

Will they burn in Hell forever?

No; the apostate Jews along with all the rest of God rejecting mankind will be annihilated and remembered no more. Ezekiel 21:32, Revelation 21:8

 

[Keraz]

Keraz, you have given your opinion as to how Rev 7 should be understood.

I see no reason to change the sequence of events as given in Revelation. The gathering of the righteous and faithful people into all of the holy Land, comes straight after the Sixth Seal disaster has cleared and cleansed all of that area.
Shuffling Revelation is not a good idea.

This would suggest that the great multitude in their White Robes came from different events

They are.
The ones seen by John in Rev 7:13-14, are people who stood firm in their faith during the just happened, Sixth Seal worldwide disaster. They remain alive and migrate into all of the holy land, while the rest of the world forms a One World Government. Isaiah 66:18b-21, Psalms 107, Isaiah 35 and many other Prophesies that tell of the new Christian nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5

The Martyrs described in Revelation 6:11, are all the Christians killed for their faith since Stephen. They wait in their graves for the GWT Judgment, Rev 20:11-15, when they will receive immortality. Only the martyrs killed during the final 3 1/2 years of this age will be resurrected by Jesus at His Return. Rev 20:4

Keraz, you often mix some of your theories with the End Time Prophecies found in Scripture, as if they have been presented by God for you to reveal. Sadly, many on this forum have similar problems. You might even point your finger at me claiming that this is what I do, also.

However, it seems to me that you are having a crisis in that there are many who argue against your radical ideas.

I present what the Bible Prophets said. I do believe the Lord has given me the task to do that.
That those Prophesies are radical, is how it is; as the ancient Prophets were reviled and rejected too.

I have pointed out elsewhere how the Lord will make understanding difficult, if not impossible for those who choose to believe in false theories and fanciful ideas. That is how the Lord wants it to be.

 

[The Light]

What I've presented extols Christ, His Gospel, His finished work at Calvary, and His faithful obedient saints through the ages.

If you have Scripture which disproves such, please present yours.

Seriously? The scripture speaks for itself. There is no need to make up anything. The 144,000 are exactly what the Word says they are.

Revelation 7
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Revelation 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

 

[Jay Ross]

You're always demeaning others and acting as if you have an infallible understanding of God and his word. Please continue. We appreciate the laughs!

Patrick, I do not laugh at what you post as you suggest, in the post above, that you do, with what I post.

However, when I read your posts, and others who are of a like mind, I cry tears of sadness over you all.

But I also know that it is the Holy Spirit within me that is crying.

May the Lord continue to draw you into His loving arms and understanding.

 

[covenantee]

Seriously? The scripture speaks for itself. There is no need to make up anything. The 144,000 are exactly what the Word says they are.

Revelation 7
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Revelation 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

So you believe that what I've presented does not extol Christ, His Gospel, His finished work at Calvary, and His faithful obedient saints through the ages?

 

[Jay Ross]

I have pointed out elsewhere how the Lord will make understanding difficult, if not impossible for those who choose to believe in false theories and fanciful ideas. That is how the Lord wants it to be.

This is true for all would be prophets that take upon themselves the mantle of being a prophet.

I present what the Bible Prophets said. I do believe the Lord has given me the task to do that.

And that my friend is your opinion. From what you present, and what I read in the scriptures, I do not see the two meeting harmoniously.

But then again that is just my opinion which I believe many others also share.

 

[Patrick1966]

Patrick, I do not laugh at what you post as you suggest, in the post above, that you do, with what I post.

However, when I read your posts, and others who are of a like mind, I cry tears of sadness over you all.

But I also know that it is the Holy Spirit within me that is crying.

May the Lord continue to draw you into His loving arms and understanding.

The last time we corresponded you accused me of taking the mark and condemned me to Hell. Ok, let's forgive and forget. May God bless you my brother.

 

[Patrick1966]

No; the apostate Jews along with all the rest of God rejecting mankind will be annihilated and remembered no more. Ezekiel 21:32, Revelation 21:8

Oh good I HATE the bad people! I was just hoping they'd suffer!

 

[Jay Ross]

The last time we corresponded you accused me of taking the mark and condemned me to Hell. Ok, let's forgive and forget. May God bless you my brother.

I know I did, as I was following Paul's lead, but did you repent so that you could live or are you still hoping that your repentance while in the Lake of fire will save you and obtain for you everlasting life?

And now to repeat your usual dismissal when you are jack of the conversation.

May God bless you, my brother.

PS: - You have been forgiven by me, but I am not the one you should be worried about to receive forgiveness from. I pray that you will not miss the opportunity to ask God for that forgiveness before your spirit leaves your present physical body.