The 144,000 before God at the end.

[rebuilder 454]

The 144k
What a roadblock for the weak postrib rapture doctrine.

 

[David in NJ]

You always go to the belittle gig.
That is the low road.

my Brother in Christ,

i see you as my friend = friends can laugh together

there was no harm in that post, only friendship

 

[amigo de christo]

my Brother in Christ,

i see you as my friend = friends can laugh together

there was no harm in that post, only friendship

Let us remember friends dont let friends ,
heck friends dont even let enemies sit under falsehoods and a lie that cannot save them .
And speaking of friends i want to leave us with a reminder FROM JESUS concerning Friends .
Now i am gonna captilize one word to make a point . A POINT you already know . But a point , none the less .
I have called you friends , IF you do whatsoever i command you . ME THINKS this GENERATION has forgotten
the IF and what follows THAT IF .
I mean man i hear this phrase a lot . JESUS IS MY BEST FRIEND .
ONLY when i see how they treat his doctrine , I am like MAN that is how you would treat your best friend .
I SEEN ENEMIES GET BETTER TREATMENT and MORE RESPECT than most give to CHRIST JESUS .
and yet they holler I AM A FRIEND OF GOD , JESUS HAS CALLED ME FRIEND
and they just roam in SIN and twist HIS sayings . NOW THATS ONE HECK of a delusion , if ya ask me .

 

[David in NJ]

It is literal as the bible depicts.
Clue
The flying scorpions.
" dont hurt the grass or the trees."
What is that "spiritually" and who are you to make anything literal into some spiritual deal????

Did i say all of Revelation is symbolic? = NO

i said that Revelation is BOTH Literal and Symbolic

Should we be looking for a "great red dragon" ?

Good Night Brother

 

[David in NJ]

This proves nothing about the 144,000 being symbolic of the Church. These verses say that Christ is first fruits of those that sleep meaning that there will be a harvest of the dead.

When the Lord returns for the Church, Pretrib those that are Christs at His coming will be raised and go with Him. The barley harvest. He will return for the alive believers that remain. The wheat harvest.

Then there are 144,000 first fruits of the next harvest will be of the 12 tribes. They that are Christs at His coming at the sixth seal, dead and alive will go to the place prepared in heaven. This is the fruit harvest.

I bet you can find at least 10 raptures in scripture.

i can only find one = 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 2 Thessalonians ch2 and 1 Corinthians ch15

 

[David in NJ]

The 144k
What a roadblock for the weak postrib rapture doctrine.

You see JESUS as weak?

 

[The Light]

So you believe that what I've presented does not extol Christ, His Gospel, His finished work at Calvary, and His faithful obedient saints through the ages?

I believe that you have misapplied some truth and come up with a nonsense conclusion that the Church is the 144,000.

And I've seen this nonsense many times. This is not the first time I have come across this so-called teaching.

The 144,000 is exactly what the word says they are.......1st fruits of a harvest and we know that the harvest is of the 12 tribes of Israel. The 144,000 is an exact number that is redeemed from the earth and is standing before the throne of God.

All this constant changing what God says in His Word is exactly why you have no clue about what happens during the end times.

 

[covenantee]

I believe that you have misapplied some truth and come up with a nonsense conclusion that the Church is the 144,000.

And I've seen this nonsense many times. This is not the first time I have come across this so-called teaching.

The 144,000 is exactly what the word says they are.......1st fruits of a harvest and we know that the harvest is of the 12 tribes of Israel. The 144,000 is an exact number that is redeemed from the earth and is standing before the throne of God.

All this constant changing what God says in His Word is exactly why you have no clue about what happens during the end times.

Speaking of nonsense...

Since you're speaking of a literal 144K of sex-starved Jewish men, I'm curious about the literal seals that they carry.

What is the size, shape, color, weight, and composition of these literal seals, and to what portion of the anatomy are they attached?

Interested in whatever detail you can provide.

With supporting Scripture, of course.

 

[Keraz]

This is true for all would be prophets that take upon themselves the mantle of being a prophet.

I repeat: I am not a prophet, just a humble messenger of what the actual Prophets said.

From what you present, and what I read in the scriptures, I do not see the two meeting harmoniously.

But then again that is just my opinion which I believe many others also share.

Then your beliefs differ from what the Prophets said.

The fact that many people disagree with my posts, is as Daniel 12:10 says: Only a few will understand the Prophetic Word.
I would be worried if many others did agree with the Prophets. But no; even with the false 'rapture to heaven' theory, there is huge controversy over when it could happen.

 

[Jay Ross]

I repeat: I am not a prophet, just a humble messenger of what the actual Prophets said.

But this is also the definition of a prophet. All the prophets were simply a messenger from God.

Then your beliefs differ from what the Prophets said.

But that is your opinion based on your belief that you have obtained or been told the original understanding that God gave to the OT prophets. It is my opinion that your understanding of what is to come during the end times is actually contrary to what God gave to the OT prophets.

The fact that many people disagree with my posts, is as Daniel 12:10 says: Only a few will understand the Prophetic Word.
I would be worried if many others did agree with the Prophets. But no; even with the false 'rapture to heaven' theory, there is huge controversy over when it could happen.

Daniel 12:10: - Many will be purified, made spotless, and refined, but the wicked will continue to act wickedly. None of the wicked will understand, but the wise will understand.​

The false rapture is a red herring with regards to what I believe but you keep coming back to Pre-trib rapture to heaven theory as if I support this. However, I am not a Pre-triber as you are inferring.

I for one do agree with the message of the OT Prophets as they recorded the message that God had given them for the Israelites, but the understanding I have is very different to what you are teaching and on that I am the opinion of that is is a flawed understanding of God's word through the prophets.

I see no reason to change the sequence of events as given in Revelation. The gathering of the righteous and faithful people into all of the holy Land, comes straight after the Sixth Seal disaster has cleared and cleansed all of that area.
Shuffling Revelation is not a good idea.

The way in which John recorded what he was shown in the Book of Revelation does not mean that the events are recorded in the order in which they will occur. For example, the Bowl judgement are recorded in the reverse order in which they will record. The Seventh Bowl Judgement describes prophetically what occurred during the 20th century. Historically Babylon was remembered to receive God's wrath in 1926 AD, and Jerusalem was partitioned in 1948 into three under the control of Jordan, Britian and the UN. Perhaps the historical record is flawed and does not reflect the prophecy of the seventh bowl judgement.

Keraz, you have to do much better with your rebuttals.

Shalom

 

[The Light]

Speaking of nonsense...

Since you're speaking of a literal 144K of sex-starved Jewish men,

You seem to forget that it is the Revelation of Jesus Christ that speaks of 144,000 literal virgins from the 12 tribes that walk in the spirit and have overcome the lusts of the flesh.

The day that you learn to accept what is written is the day you will begin to understand the Word of God. These lame teachings that are passed around by those that have no understanding and cannot accept what is written lead many astray.

You would be wise to look up as the redemption draws nigh. Tomorrow and a day would be a good time to look up. Tu B'Av.

I'm curious about the literal seals that they carry.

What is the size, shape, color, weight, and composition of these literal seals, and to what portion of the anatomy are they attached?

Interested in whatever detail you can provide.

With supporting Scripture, of course.

You seem to be unaware of this seal. How is that?

Ephesians 1
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

It is impossible for John 1:10-13 to be refuted, except thru unbelief.

Revelation is written with symbolism mixed in with literal.

Here is more overwhelming evidence = 144k just so happens(lol) to be the dimensions of the Temple

Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. And he who talked with me had a gold reed to measure the city, its gates, and its wall. The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed: twelve thousand furlongs. Its length, breadth, and height are equal. Then he measured its wall: one hundred and forty-four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel. The construction of its wall was of jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass. The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.

You used John 1:10-13 (as if It equipped you with a measuring stick) to interpret Revelation's 144k Jews. That is what I refuted, not scripture. Don't twist things.
This description of the New Jerusalem is to be taken literally and that btw happens after the GT, after the Millennial Kingdom, after the first earth and heavens ate destroyed.
So again you are somehow trying draw a symbolic connection with the 144k and the structure of the New Jerusalem.
So I guess you think when the Bible mentions the number 12 anywhere you do a search for the number and think it has something to do with that ... "They must be related?"
Think again.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

@Ronald David Bruno @The Light

Here is even MORE overwhelming evidence = the symbolic 144,000 are first fruits unto God

HELLO HELLO - this should be a Bright Neon Sign to you

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

That sure is a beautiful scripture. In Christ, we will all be saved and the remnant Israel (of the twelve tribes) will be saved during the GT. Romans 11 confirms this.
Israel is referred to as the first fruits. They were the chosen nation and first ones to receive the Lord and salvation. Then the gospel spread to the Gentile world.
It is important not to dismiss God's covenant with Israel. They will be enlightened. Many OT scriptures confirm His covenant that will be fulfilled in the End Times.
Deuteronomy 30:1-10 speaks of a land Covenant that was never fully realized - yet. (see Genesis 13:15)
2 Samuel 7:16 speaks of the Davidic Covenant which recognizes and will soon establish Jesus' throne on Jerusalem during the Millennail Kingdom.
Zechariah 12:9-10 supports Romans 11

Zechariah 14 describes the Day of the Lord:
1. Spoils are divided (therefore not all destroyed)
2. God gathers nations against Israel. Likely candidates are Iran, Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Lebonon, Egypt, Libya, Yemen, and others.
3. Jerusalem is taken.
4. The remnant (Israel) shall not be cut off.
5. The Lord returns to fight those nations.
6. Nuclear War/the power of God ( vs. 12)
7. Light is diminished
8. The aftermath of the GT, Loving water will flow out of Jerusalem.
Jeremiah 16:15 "For I will restore them to their land which I gave to their fathers". The was partially fulfilled on 1948, but not fully realized.

>> That is overwhelming evidence to support the literal salvation of a remnant 144k Jews from all 12 tribes and I only touched the surface.

 

[Patrick1966]

did you repent so that you could live or are you still hoping that your repentance while in the Lake of fire will save you and obtain for you everlasting life?

 

[David in NJ]

That sure is a beautiful scripture. In Christ, we will all be saved and the remnant Israel (of the twelve tribes) will be saved during the GT. Romans 11 confirms this.
Israel is referred to as the first fruits. They were the chosen nation and first ones to receive the Lord and salvation. Then the gospel spread to the Gentile world.
It is important not to dismiss God's covenant with Israel. They will be enlightened. Many OT scriptures confirm His covenant that will be fulfilled in the End Times.
Deuteronomy 30:1-10 speaks of a land Covenant that was never fully realized - yet. (see Genesis 13:15)
2 Samuel 7:16 speaks of the Davidic Covenant which recognizes and will soon establish Jesus' throne on Jerusalem during the Millennail Kingdom.
Zechariah 12:9-10 supports Romans 11

Zechariah 14 describes the Day of the Lord:
1. Spoils are divided (therefore not all destroyed)
2. God gathers nations against Israel. Likely candidates are Iran, Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Lebonon, Egypt, Libya, Yemen, and others.
3. Jerusalem is taken.
4. The remnant (Israel) shall not be cut off.
5. The Lord returns to fight those nations.
6. Nuclear War/the power of God ( vs. 12)
7. Light is diminished
8. The aftermath of the GT, Loving water will flow out of Jerusalem.
Jeremiah 16:15 "For I will restore them to their land which I gave to their fathers". The was partially fulfilled on 1948, but not fully realized.

>> That is overwhelming evidence to support the literal salvation of a remnant 144k Jews from all 12 tribes and I only touched the surface.

None of those scriptures speak of 144k Jews of the flesh.

The remnant of Jews and the remnant of Gentiles whom the LORD calls are One Body = the Body of Christ who is the Israel of God.

 

[David in NJ]

You used John 1:10-13 (as if It equipped you with a measuring stick) to interpret Revelation's 144k Jews. That is what I refuted, not scripture. Don't twist things.
This description of the New Jerusalem is to be taken literally and that btw happens after the GT, after the Millennial Kingdom, after the first earth and heavens ate destroyed.
So again you are somehow trying draw a symbolic connection with the 144k and the structure of the New Jerusalem.
So I guess you think when the Bible mentions the number 12 anywhere you do a search for the number and think it has something to do with that ... "They must be related?"
Think again.

Speaking of twisting things...............

You have not one shred of Scriptural evidence that God has separated 144K Jews from the Body of Christ.

 

[The Light]

The remnant of Jews and the remnant of Gentiles whom the LORD calls are One Body = the Body of Christ who is the Israel of God.

Excellent. Now all you have to do is realize that the fullness of the Gentiles comes in first before part of the Jews can see. God then turns His attention to the people of Daniel as the final week begins.

First the Gentiles and then the 12 tribes which is exactly why there are 144,000 first fruits of the second harvest.

It's all about timing and the plan God has made. He tells us the plan...........try to keep up brother.

 

[The Light]

Speaking of twisting things...............

You have not one shred of Scriptural evidence that God has separated 144K Jews from the Body of Christ.

And you have not provided one single proof that the Pope heads to the woods.

 

[covenantee]

You seem to forget that it is the Revelation of Jesus Christ that speaks of 144,000 literal virgins from the 12 tribes that walk in the spirit and have overcome the lusts of the flesh.

The day that you learn to accept what is written is the day you will begin to understand the Word of God. These lame teachings that are passed around by those that have no understanding and cannot accept what is written lead many astray.

There you have it, folks.

Dispens don't care about Christ, His Gospel, His finished work at Calvary, and His faithful obedient saints through the ages.

They only care about 144K sex-starved Jews.

Yes, many are led astray by Christ, His Gospel, His finished work at Calvary, and His faithful obedient saints through the ages.

But no one is ever led astray by 144K sex-starved Jews.

Why didn't you answer the question about the literal seals on the literal virgins?

Don't you believe the Bible literally?

You perfectly epitomize 1 Corinthians 2:14:
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Your being utterly devoid of spiritual discernment, Christ, His Gospel, His finished work at Calvary, and His faithful obedient saints through the ages; are foolishness unto you.

The Pharisees would have applauded.

You seem to be unaware of this seal. How is that?

Ephesians 1
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Unsurprisingly, you are unaware that I quoted Ephesians 1:13 as my third "sealed" passage. How is that?

 

[rebuilder 454]

You see JESUS as weak?

Hmmm
You answer in context is proclaiming your doctrine as devine?
Omission if verses is your doctrines incubator.
Omit the pretrib rapture verses... And....POOOOF.. a postrib rapture magically appears.
You are backed into a proverbial corner with the "one coming" nonsense