The 144,000 before God at the end.

[rebuilder 454]

you mean according to PRE TRIB JESUS is not talking to the church and that according to men of pre trib
that is the seventieth week . Rather odd though .
Paul seemed to be warning both believing jews and believing gentiles . aka THE CHURCH .
JESUS told this to BELIEVERS pardner . You problem is you are buying into what men TAUGHT YA .
TIME to OPEN BIBLE FOR YOU . as i said there are truths and ERRORS within all three tribs .
ALL THREE TRIB teachings . THAT DO INCLUDE BIG TIME PRE TRIB . OPEN BIBLE . LOVE BIBLE
READ BIBLE , KEEP READING BIBLE , KEEP LOVING BIBLE and watch what happens .
BUT SO LONG as you read it through your own version , your own trib , YOU , like others , ARE NOT GONNA SEE What
NEEDS and what NEEDED TO BE SEEN . PONDER ON that for a while .

Do you ever discuss a verse?
Rambling on in generalities with no verses is just taking up space.

 

[covenantee]

God is going to keep His promise to His Chosen whether you like it or not. FACT

The only promises He has ever kept and will ever keep are to His Chosen: His Faithful and Obedient.

His Church.

No others.

God is not a racist.

Whether you agree or not. PROVEN

 

[Keraz]

The only promises He has ever kept and will ever keep are to His Chosen: His Faithful and Obedient.

His Church.

No others.

They shall be My people:

Jeremiah 31:31-33 The days are coming when I shall make a New Covenant with Israel and Judah, ….this is the Covenant I will make with the Israelites in the latter days: I shall fix My Laws in their hearts and I will be their God and they will be My people.

The Reformers of the Church generally believed and taught that the Church was Israel. Therefore; all Church members were Israelites by faith.
However they didn’t make it clear who exactly the ‘church’ was and to allow anyone who wanted membership, some only after an intensive Bible course, some after a Baptism and some just if they made a donation, has led to much abuse and error within the established Church.

The Jewish people think they have the ancestral right to be God’s people and many today support them in this belief. It is an immutable tenet of the ‘rapture to heaven’ theory, where the Church goes to heaven, while the Jews face tribulation on earth.
This theory isn’t Biblical and contradicts God’s Plans for His faithful people; ALL those who have freely chosen to believe in Him and keep His Laws now; Jew and Gentile, people from every race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10 & 7:9

John the Baptist told the Jews; God can raise up children for Abraham from these very stones. Matthew 3:9 and Paul said: A person is not a Jew, [Israelite] who is one outwardly, [ethnic descent] but only inwardly. [by the Spirit] Romans 11:13-24

Paul goes on to say: The Jews were cut off, because of unbelief….and Gentiles who are not Israelites by descent, are grafted in to the Olive Tree by belief in Jesus.
Only born again believers, circumcised in their hearts, confessing faith, with true repentance, like the Ethiopian eunuch, should become Church members, by full immersion Baptism as he and Jesus were. A public declaration of their commitment.

So the established Churches [I capitalize Churches as they are known entities- bricks and mortar] cannot claim to be the congregation [ecclesia] of God. It is only every individual who is: Crucified with Jesus and the life they now live is not their life, but that of Jesus who lives within them…., Galatians 2:20, who are the true Israelites of God. Galatians 6:14-16

They are people from every tribe, race, nation and language, Revelation 7:9 All the faithful Christ following people, to whom the Promises and Blessings of God come to and those who will finally fulfil God’s desire for a nation, divided into 12 groups; they will produce the fruit of being His witnesses and the Light for the nations. Matthew 21:43, Matthew 5:14, Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 49:8

When the letters to the seven Church types of Revelation 2:1-29 and Revelation 3:1-22 are read and understood, it will be seen that Jesus rewards the victorious or the overcomers, out of each of those Churches . This proves how not all who belong to a Church or those who think their ethnicity will save them, will be saved on the Day the Lord will judge and punish the nations. Isaiah 66:15-17....many will be slain by Him....
Zephaniah 3:8, Isaiah 24:1-6, Revelation 6:12-17

 

[strepho]

The 144,000 are the levites of Ezekiel chapter 44, Jesus will not allow them into the temple. They will pay for their sins.
Why?? Because in the flesh, the 144,000 TEMPORARILY went astray, and mislead people to worship satan as antichrist at the 6th trump, while in the flesh.
The levitical priests, who are descendants of Zadok, Gods Elect, will have charge of the sanctuary. God's election will be priest's and judges during millennium.
The levites, 144,000 Led Israeli astray, when antichrist was leading the one world political system of revelation chapter 13. The 144,000 will pay for their sins. They will do the dirty work. Jesus won't allow the Levites in the temple. God thinks they are worth saving.

We see the disctition between the levitical priests and the Levite priest's.
The Zadok, the Election, will reign with Jesus during the millennium.
The Zadok are the first fruits of Romans chapter 8. The Zadok, Elect, are predestined, chosen before foundation of the world.
The 144,000 are not predestined. Get the picture.

 

[rebuilder 454]

ask youself why you are not paying attention to what i said . I already told ya there are truths and errors
in all three tribs . TIME to go and learn that . And you are way overthinking things if you think we got two removals
before JUDGEMENT .
Lest by the other removal you are trying to imply that means we got called out of the world by FAITH IN JESUS
and thus we are no longer of the world .
THERE is but one removal concering the end time judgment upon the world by which it will surely perish
as will those who praticed evil and loved a lie . The lambs have already been CALLED OUT OF THE WORLD
though we still are IN the world we are no longer of the world .
BUT the day is coming and hour cometh WHEN THE MASTER OF THE HOUSE shall arise to JUDGE THE WORLD BY WRATH .
On that day the church is raptured up to go home as HE LIES DOWN with fierce wrath the wrath against
all who loved a lie , rejected HIM . TIS A ONE TIME EVENT BUD .
ONE TIME . and my advice to those who offer up a second chance hope , IS DONT .
You aint helping squat by doing so and rather encourage the flesh to continue on cause at least it might have a second chance .
WHEN INDEED THERE IS NO SECOND CHANCE . A little advice
IF you or me or anyone were to suddenly see or hear of folks dissappearing in what is known as the rapture ,
TUCK Your head down betwixt your knees and kiss it all good bye . CAUSE THE WRATH OF GOD IS ALL YOU GONNA SEE .
THERE IS NO SECOND chance . NOT after death , NOT after the LORD arises EITHER to judge this world .
My advice , Start preaching JESUS while there still BE TIME TO DO SO . cause NO man knows the day nor hour
HE COMETH . yeah preach that .

Maybe a verse or two?
Otherwise it is a monologue.

 

[The Light]

The only promises He has ever kept and will ever keep are to His Chosen: His Faithful and Obedient.

His Church.

No others.

God is not a racist.

Whether you agree or not. PROVEN

The sad thing is you have no clue what is going on all around you. You have no clue that the Church will be in heaven shortly. You have no clue that the seals will soon be open. You have no clue who the beast of the earth and the beast of the sea are. Now is the time for the bride to make herself ready. This is the time to load the ark. And you are unaware. The wise are aware.

Revelation 3
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You do not have a single scripture that states they are resurrected Saints,
and
neither can you find one,
because
none exist,
and
JESUS said this: Then He said to them, “With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; for I say to you, I will no longer eat of it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.”

i always have "a" verse. Many verses.
The martyrs are confined to under the throne in heaven till their number is fulfilled.
The innumerable martyrs are not confined. They are in the general population.
Therefore ,the Number fulfilled.

Pretrib rapture
Then the AC Martyrs all refusing the mark. Those are the innumerable martyrs John saw in heaven and they were not under the throne.

 

[rebuilder 454]

View attachment 35842

"Endure unto the end"
That is what all the dead in Christ did.
And all outside the meaning you are putting on that verse.
You misquote.
That is what you are doing.

 

[covenantee]

The sad thing is you have no clue what is going on all around you. You have no clue that the Church will be in heaven shortly. You have no clue that the seals will soon be open. You have no clue who the beast of the earth and the beast of the sea are. Now is the time for the bride to make herself ready. This is the time to load the ark. And you are unaware. The wise are aware.

Revelation 3
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

You have no clue who God's Chosen People are.

They are His "Inward Jews", all, Jew and Gentile, whose "circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

There's that spirit again. Just can't avoid it.

Conversely, the "outward Jews" are the synagogue of Satan.

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Revelation 2
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

 

[ewq1938]

Then the AC Martyrs all refusing the mark.

Can you supply a verse that says refusing the mark means you are killed?

 

[Hobie]

They shall be My people:

Jeremiah 31:31-33 The days are coming when I shall make a New Covenant with Israel and Judah, ….this is the Covenant I will make with the Israelites in the latter days: I shall fix My Laws in their hearts and I will be their God and they will be My people.

The Reformers of the Church generally believed and taught that the Church was Israel. Therefore; all Church members were Israelites by faith.
However they didn’t make it clear who exactly the ‘church’ was and to allow anyone who wanted membership, some only after an intensive Bible course, some after a Baptism and some just if they made a donation, has led to much abuse and error within the established Church.

The Jewish people think they have the ancestral right to be God’s people and many today support them in this belief. It is an immutable tenet of the ‘rapture to heaven’ theory, where the Church goes to heaven, while the Jews face tribulation on earth.
This theory isn’t Biblical and contradicts God’s Plans for His faithful people; ALL those who have freely chosen to believe in Him and keep His Laws now; Jew and Gentile, people from every race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10 & 7:9

John the Baptist told the Jews; God can raise up children for Abraham from these very stones. Matthew 3:9 and Paul said: A person is not a Jew, [Israelite] who is one outwardly, [ethnic descent] but only inwardly. [by the Spirit] Romans 11:13-24

Paul goes on to say: The Jews were cut off, because of unbelief….and Gentiles who are not Israelites by descent, are grafted in to the Olive Tree by belief in Jesus.
Only born again believers, circumcised in their hearts, confessing faith, with true repentance, like the Ethiopian eunuch, should become Church members, by full immersion Baptism as he and Jesus were. A public declaration of their commitment.

So the established Churches [I capitalize Churches as they are known entities- bricks and mortar] cannot claim to be the congregation [ecclesia] of God. It is only every individual who is: Crucified with Jesus and the life they now live is not their life, but that of Jesus who lives within them…., Galatians 2:20, who are the true Israelites of God. Galatians 6:14-16

They are people from every tribe, race, nation and language, Revelation 7:9 All the faithful Christ following people, to whom the Promises and Blessings of God come to and those who will finally fulfil God’s desire for a nation, divided into 12 groups; they will produce the fruit of being His witnesses and the Light for the nations. Matthew 21:43, Matthew 5:14, Isaiah 43:10, Isaiah 49:8

When the letters to the seven Church types of Revelation 2:1-29 and Revelation 3:1-22 are read and understood, it will be seen that Jesus rewards the victorious or the overcomers, out of each of those Churches . This proves how not all who belong to a Church or those who think their ethnicity will save them, will be saved on the Day the Lord will judge and punish the nations. Isaiah 66:15-17....many will be slain by Him....
Zephaniah 3:8, Isaiah 24:1-6, Revelation 6:12-17

Yes, as we see God has always wanted His law in the hearts and minds of His people, not just written out in stone, but in the "fleshy tables of the heart".
Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people

Hebrews 10:16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

2 Corinthians 3:3
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

 

[The Light]

You have no clue who God's Chosen People are.

They are His "Inward Jews", all, Jew and Gentile, whose "circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

There's that spirit again. Just can't avoid it.

Conversely, the "outward Jews" are the synagogue of Satan.

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Revelation 2
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

You incorrectly conclude that I and others don't understand these things. You pull a few verses out and jump right to the end and say."here is a pie with both Jew and Gentile being spiritual Israel. You parade that pie around and think you have understanding. You hold that pie up high and say, "look see both believing Gentiles and Jews are in the pie.

You completely cast aside God's plan and jump to the end result.
Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

You don't take into account that God saw the fathers of the Jews as the first fruits of the first harvest. However, they served another God and would not be the first harvest. They were blinded and would not see that Jesus was the Messiah. Even though Jesus showed up exactly when the Messiah was supposed to show up, they rejected Him in unbelief.

John 12
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

However, when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in......pretribulation rapture then the seals be can be opened and the next phase of God plan will occur.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Bottom line is you completely reject what the Lord says is going to happen and jump right to the and say, "see I told you, we are all Israel." You don't realize that there are two pies that are both brought to the same place.

John 10
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Yes in the end there will be one big pie, but you are blind to the plan of God. Both Jews and Gentiles are to be saved and the Jew was to be first. But that plan changed.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You incorrectly conclude that I and others don't understand these things. You pull a few verses out and jump right to the end and say."here is a pie with both Jew and Gentile being spiritual Israel. You parade that pie around and think you have understanding. You hold that pie up high and say, "look see both believing Gentiles and Jews are in the pie.

You completely cast aside God's plan and jump to the end result.
Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

You don't take into account that God saw the fathers of the Jews as the first fruits of the first harvest. However, they served another God and would not be the first harvest. They were blinded and would not see that Jesus was the Messiah. Even though Jesus showed up exactly when the Messiah was supposed to show up, they rejected Him in unbelief.

John 12
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

However, when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in......pretribulation rapture then the seals be can be opened and the next phase of God plan will occur.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Bottom line is you completely reject what the Lord says is going to happen and jump right to the and say, "see I told you, we are all Israel." You don't realize that there are two pies that are both brought to the same place.

John 10
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Yes in the end there will be one big pie, but you are blind to the plan of God. Both Jews and Gentiles are to be saved and the Jew was to be first. But that plan changed.

It is also leaving the 99 and going after the lost 1... Israel

 

[rebuilder 454]

Can you supply a verse that says refusing the mark means you are killed?

yes
I will shortly

 

[rebuilder 454]

The sad thing is you have no clue what is going on all around you. You have no clue that the Church will be in heaven shortly. You have no clue that the seals will soon be open. You have no clue who the beast of the earth and the beast of the sea are. Now is the time for the bride to make herself ready. This is the time to load the ark. And you are unaware. The wise are aware.

Revelation 3
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

this is the true heart of the issue.
I would add that there is a worthiness to going in the rapture.
Jesus said
because you have kept the word of my testimony, I will keep you from the hour of Temptation about to come upon the whole Earth
Jesus said pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things about to come up on the Earth and stand before the son of man
Jesus said in the ten virgins that five were wise and they went in with the bridegroom and that Dynamic is Worthy vs unworthy

 

[rebuilder 454]

Can you supply a verse that says refusing the mark means you are killed?

Revelation 15:2
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Can you supply a verse that says refusing the mark means you are killed?

Revelation 13:17
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Can you supply a verse that says refusing the mark means you are killed?

Revelation 13:16
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their

 

[rebuilder 454]

Either take the mark or die.
We see them all in heaven as billions and innumerable
No rapture at tge 2nd coming on horses.
All the saints and messianic jews are harvested and have attended the wedding

 

[David in NJ]

What is half filled?

Religion