The 70 Weeks Prophecy - The Ezra 6:14 Challenge

[marks]

Is there anyone here that believes the 70 weeks have already been fulfilled I.e. there is no 2000 year gap between the 69th and 70th week?

I believe that there is a gap in time.

The 70 weeks are presented as 7 weeks, and 62 weeks, and 1 week.

Daniel 9:26-27 KJV
26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

There are 69 weeks after which Messiah is cut off, so it is not a part of the 69 weeks. Afterward comes a war and destruction, after which a covenant is confirmed for 1 week, making the 70 Weeks determined.

Much love!

 

[Randy Kluth]

Who is the one with a closed mind then? Certainly not me. The Ezra 6:14 Challenge exists for you to prove the validity of your view and how it stands up to all of Scripture. If you don't want to or can't spend the time to do that, then really how valid is your view? If you've spent so much time coming to your conclusions and believe in them, then why should you be so scared about viewing a competing view that you are convinced is wrong? Makes me wonder how you've ever learned anything new.

I've not been frightened by competing views for many years. But when I get up in the morning and see the rising sun, and someone tells me that it isn't there--consider an alternative view, I just pull the blankets up over my head and go back to sleep. g'night

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

I've not been frightened by competing views for many years. But when I get up in the morning and see the rising sun, and someone tells me that it isn't there--consider an alternative view, I just pull the blankets up over my head and go back to sleep. g'night

Yes, many religious leaders and pastors are the same. That is the difference between them and the Bereans:
[Act 17:11 LSB] 11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily [to see] whether these things were so.

 

[Jay Ross]

Is there anyone here that believes the 70 weeks have already been fulfilled I.e. there is no 2000 year gap between the 69th and 70th week?

Well, from the beginning of the giving of the Daniel 9:24-27 to its conclusion, there will be three and a half ages which is around 3,600 years.

Now the Daniel 9:26b prophecy spans around 2 ages or around 2,000 plus years until the war in heaven is over with the Judgement of the wicked fallen heavenly hosts which results in them being kicked out.

When they are judged in heaven, they will be imprisoned in a pit for many days, which we are told in Rev 20:1-3 will be for 1,000 years. Then Satan, the judged heavenly hosts and the judged kings of the earth will inflict Great tribulation upon the peoples of the earth during the little while period at the end of the Seventh Age which includes the one week of years where the False prophet will enter into a solemn covenant with many which is overturned by Satan until he is captured and also dispatched into the Lake of Fire.

Shalom

 

[MatthewG]

Is there anyone here that believes the 70 weeks have already been fulfilled I.e. there is no 2000 year gap between the 69th and 70th week?

I dont know. (mark 1:15)

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Well, from the beginning of the giving of the Daniel 9:24-27 to its conclusion, there will be three and a half ages which is around 3,600 years.

Now the Daniel 9:26b prophecy spans around 2 ages or around 2,000 plus years until the war in heaven is over with the Judgement of the wicked fallen heavenly hosts which results in them being kicked out.

When they are judged in heaven, they will be imprisoned in a pit for many days, which we are told in Rev 20:1-3 will be for 1,000 years. Then Satan, the judged heavenly hosts and the judged kings of the earth will inflict Great tribulation upon the peoples of the earth during the little while period at the end of the Seventh Age which includes the one week of years where the False prophet will enter into a solemn covenant with many which is overturned by Satan until he is captured and also dispatched into the Lake of Fire.

Shalom

This thread is about the Ezra 6:14 Challenge. How does any of what you stated meet challenge? As discussed in another thread, you were unable to address this deficiency in your interpretation.

 

[MatthewG]

This thread is about the Ezra 6:14 Challenge.

Good note. Was gonna post but dont wanna go off topic.

 

[MatthewG]

Ezra 6:14

New International Version

​

14 So the elders of the Jews continued to build and prosper under the preaching of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah, a descendant of Iddo. They finished building the temple according to the command of the God of Israel and the decrees of Cyrus, Darius and Artaxerxes, kings of Persia.

@EclipseEventSigns so what exactly is the challenge?

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Ezra 6:14​

​

New International Version​

​

​

14 So the elders of the Jews continued to build and prosper under the preaching of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah, a descendant of Iddo. They finished building the temple according to the command of the God of Israel and the decrees of Cyrus, Darius and Artaxerxes, kings of Persia.

@EclipseEventSigns so what exactly is the challenge?

Read the beginning posts of the thread to find out.

 

[Jay Ross]

This thread is about the Ezra 6:14 Challenge. How does any of what you stated meet challenge? As discussed in another thread, you were unable to address this deficiency in your interpretation.

I am following your lead and being a good Berean to @IndianaRob.

Yes, many religious leaders and pastors are the same. That is the difference between them and the Bereans:
[Act 17:11 LSB] 11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily [to see] whether these things were so.

This quoted post by you falls, in my opinion, into the same category as your accusation against me does, it was not on the topic of the Ezra challenge. Since you are being the only one claiming that I have failed your challenge, I think that I can dismiss your claims of having any deficiency in my understanding of the Daniel 9:24-27 prophetic word recorded by the prophet Daniel.

It seems to me that you are having a problem with the word "After," in verse 26a, whereas I am not having the same Delima.

 

[MatthewG]

@EclipseEventSigns its hard to just go by the information you suggest.

The seventy-weeks prophecy

“I went on praying and confessing my sin and the sin of my people, pleading with the Lord my God for Jerusalem, his holy mountain. As I was praying, Gabriel, whom I had seen in the earlier vision, came swiftly to me at the time of the evening sacrifice. He explained to me, “Daniel, I have come here to give you insight and understanding. The moment you began praying, a command was given. And now I am here to tell you what it was, for you are very precious to God. Listen carefully so that you can understand the meaning of your vision. “A period of seventy sets of seven has been decreed for your people and your holy city to finish their rebellion, to put an end to their sin, to atone for their guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to confirm the prophetic vision, and to anoint the Most Holy Place. Now listen and understand! Seven sets of seven plus sixty-two sets of seven will pass from the time the command is given to rebuild Jerusalem until a ruler—the Anointed One—comes. Jerusalem will be rebuilt with streets and strong defenses, despite the perilous times. “After this period of sixty-two sets of seven, the Anointed One will be killed, appearing to have accomplished nothing, and a ruler will arise whose armies will destroy the city and the Temple. The end will come with a flood, and war and its miseries are decreed from that time to the very end. The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him.””
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭9‬:‭20‬-‭27‬ ‭NLT‬‬

Daniel 9:20-27 I went on praying and confessing my sin and the sin of my people, pleading with the LORD my God for Jerusalem, his holy mountain. As I was praying, Gabriel, whom I had seen in the earlier vision, came | New Living Translation (NLT) | D

I went on praying and confessing my sin and the sin of my people, pleading with the LORD my God for Jerusalem, his holy mountain. As I was praying, Gabriel, whom I had seen in the earlier vision, came

bible.com

“One day Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee, and John baptized him in the Jordan River. As Jesus came up out of the water, he saw the heavens splitting apart and the Holy Spirit descending on him like a dove. And a voice from heaven said, “You are my dearly loved Son, and you bring me great joy.” The Spirit then compelled Jesus to go into the wilderness, where he was tempted by Satan for forty days. He was out among the wild animals, and angels took care of him. Later on, after John was arrested, Jesus went into Galilee, where he preached God’s Good News. “The time promised by God has come at last!” he announced. “The Kingdom of God is near! Repent of your sins and believe the Good News!””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1‬:‭9‬-‭15‬ ‭NLT‬‬

Mark 1:9-15 One day Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee, and John baptized him in the Jordan River. As Jesus came up out of the water, he saw the heavens splitting apart and the Holy Spirit descending on him like | New Living Translation (NLT) | Down

One day Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee, and John baptized him in the Jordan River. As Jesus came up out of the water, he saw the heavens splitting apart and the Holy Spirit descending on him like

bible.com

““Teacher,” they asked, “when will all this happen? What sign will show us that these things are about to take place?” He replied, “Don’t let anyone mislead you, for many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and saying, ‘The time has come!’ But don’t believe them. And when you hear of wars and insurrections, don’t panic. Yes, these things must take place first, but the end won’t follow immediately.” Then he added, “Nation will go to war against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be great earthquakes, and there will be famines and plagues in many lands, and there will be terrifying things and great miraculous signs from heaven. “But before all this occurs, there will be a time of great persecution. You will be dragged into synagogues and prisons, and you will stand trial before kings and governors because you are my followers. But this will be your opportunity to tell them about me. So don’t worry in advance about how to answer the charges against you, for I will give you the right words and such wisdom that none of your opponents will be able to reply or refute you! Even those closest to you—your parents, brothers, relatives, and friends—will betray you. They will even kill some of you. And everyone will hate you because you are my followers. But not a hair of your head will perish! By standing firm, you will win your souls. “And when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then you will know that the time of its destruction has arrived.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21‬:‭7‬-‭20‬ ‭NLT‬‬

Luke 21:8-19 He replied, “Don’t let anyone mislead you, for many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and saying, ‘The time has come!’ But don’t believe them. And when you hear of wars and insurrect | New Living Translation (NLT) | Dow

He replied, “Don’t let anyone mislead you, for many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and saying, ‘The time has come!’ But don’t believe them. And when you hear of wars and insurrect

bible.com

 

[Randy Kluth]

I dont know. (mark 1:15)

There is no gap, in my opinion, between the 69 Weeks and the 70th Week. It was all fulfilled in history, in the work of Christ. And the prophecy indicates that it would cost Israel their Messiah, their temple, and their holy city.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Yes, many religious leaders and pastors are the same. That is the difference between them and the Bereans:
[Act 17:11 LSB] 11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily [to see] whether these things were so.

If I was a plumber and was told I could fix the leak by sawing through the drain pipes I would *not* study to prove how "open" I am. I would ignore the ridiculous suggestion.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

If I was a plumber and was told I could fix the leak by sawing through the drain pipes I would *not* study to prove how "open" I am. I would ignore the ridiculous suggestion.

Mocking and ridiculous statements. blah, blah blah. You have nothing of interest.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Here's another clue for the Ezra 6:14 Challenge.

Ezra 6:14 lists 4 commands that were given in order for the temple to be completed - and by way of returning to the land and restoring it. The Hebrew words "sub" and "bana". "Return" and "restore". These are the words found in Daniel 9:25. The words which signaled the start of the entire period of the 70 Weeks.

Arguments have raged back and forth as to when did this period start. What king's decree started the whole thing? Look on any forum thread about this topic and every tom, dick and harry has their pet interpretation. Very few base theirs on an accurate understanding of the text. Some tie it to their particular denomination. Or some "personal vision from God". Or some supposed expert scholar. But no one realizes that Ezra 6:14 invalidates all of their interpretations. They don't acknowledge or realize that God's command to "sub" and "bana" came before any of the 3 kings' decrees.

This makes complete sense, unfortunately. Out of all the many English translations, they all interpret Daniel 9:25 differently. It's a complete mess. This shows that no translator has ever truly correctly understood the 70 Weeks prophecy.

The vast majority of proposed interpretations are based on the King James Version.
King James Bible
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Some are very close in wording.
New American Standard Bible
So you are to know and understand that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until Messiah the Prince, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with streets and moat, even in times of distress.

New International Version
"Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.

But their biases are very evident. Anyone who knows the Hebrew language knows that there are no capital letters in Hebrew. Or punctuation. Any translation that puts in capitals and adds punctuation is making an INTERPRETATION of the original Hebrew text. It's very safe to say that anyone who bases their own view on the KJV, NASB, NIV or similar with added capitals will NEVER come to the correct view of the prophecy.

Obviously, the English language needs punctuation. But what about those translations who don't add capitals for "messiah" and "prince"?
NET Bible
So know and understand: From the issuing of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until an anointed one, a prince arrives, there will be a period of seven weeks and sixty-two weeks. It will again be built, with plaza and moat, but in distressful times.

JPS Tanakh 1917
Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem unto one anointed, a prince, shall be seven weeks; and for threescore and two weeks, it shall be built again, with broad place and moat, but in troublous times.

Coverdale Bible of 1535
Vnderstode this then, and marcke it well: that from the tyme it shalbe concluded, to go and repayre Ierusalem agayne, vnto Christ (or the anoynted) prynce: there shalbe seuen wekes. Then shall the stretes & walles be buylded agayne [sixty-two] wekes, but with harde troublous tyme.

Even though the Coverdale still capitalizes "Christ", they include the alternate "anoynted". But notice where the periods of weeks occur. Totally different. And what are you going to do with this translation?
English Standard Version
Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time.

The proper interpretation is all tied to the original Hebrew text. No one will understand the prophecy correctly by reading an English translation. That is part of the Ezra 6:14 Challenge.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Mocking and ridiculous statements. blah, blah blah. You have nothing of interest.

None of that was meant to mock. It's just fact. You're telling me I'm not open to alternatives when I've studied the alternatives and have settled on some pretty good arguments. Your alternative is way out in left field. I don't need to study that to show I'm "open."

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Here's another clue for the Ezra 6:14 Challenge.

After comparing the various alternate English translations of Daniel 9:25 and showing just how much they vary in timing the periods of Weeks, there's another major issue to consider. Anyone whose interpretation combines the first 7 Weeks together with the next 62 Weeks needs to also combine the following 1 Week with the final 1/2 Week. They MUST deal with the 70 1/2 Weeks Prophecy. Yes. 70 and 1/2 Weeks as their text reads.

How is that possible? Why have they missed this all this time? They just don't know what the Hebrew text says.

Daniel 9:25 Hebrew text literally says "weeks seven and weeks sixty and two". They take a look at this (usually just in the English) and happily combine it all together to get 69 Weeks.

But they MUST be consistent and do the same with Daniel 9:27. The Hebrew text literally says "week one and half the week". Add it together in the same way. 1 1/2 Weeks. If you add it together in verse 25, you must do the same thing in verse 27.

69 + 1 1/2 = 70 1/2 Weeks.

What's the problem? Well, of course back in verse 24 Gabriel specifically says there are 70 Weeks in total. It can't possibly be 70 1/2 Weeks. So these people who don't treat the text in a consistent manner have a problem. They don't realize they have a problem. They will deny they have a problem. But that doesn't change the fact that they do indeed have a problem.

This is all part of the Ezra 6:14 Challenge.

 

[marks]

Ezra 6:14​

​

New International Version​

​

​

14 So the elders of the Jews continued to build and prosper under the preaching of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah, a descendant of Iddo. They finished building the temple according to the command of the God of Israel and the decrees of Cyrus, Darius and Artaxerxes, kings of Persia.

@EclipseEventSigns so what exactly is the challenge?

Ezra 6:14 KJV+
14) And the eldersH7868 of the JewsH3062 builded,H1124 and they prosperedH6744 through the prophesyingH5017 of HaggaiH2292 the prophetH5029 and ZechariahH2148 the sonH1247 of Iddo.H5714 And they builded,H1124 and finishedH3635 it, accordingH4481 to the commandmentH2941 of the GodH426 of Israel,H3479 and according toH4481 the commandmentH2942 of Cyrus,H3567 and Darius,H1868 and ArtaxerxesH783 kingH4430 of Persia.H6540

I never noticed before . . . two different words are used for the commandment of God, and the commandment of the kings. I'm not versed in Hebrew though.

Daniel 9:25 KJV+
25) KnowH3045 therefore and understand,H7919 that fromH4480 the going forthH4161 of the commandmentH1697 to restoreH7725 and to buildH1129 JerusalemH3389 untoH5704 the MessiahH4899 the PrinceH5057 shall be sevenH7651 weeks,H7620 and threescoreH8346 and twoH8147 weeks:H7620 the streetH7339 shall be builtH1129 again,H7725 and the wall,H2742 even in troublousH6695 times.H6256

In Daniel, he used a different word still.

From the LXX,

Daniel 9:25 Brenton
And thou shalt know and understand, that from the going forth of the command for the answer and for the building of Jerusalem until Christ the prince there shall be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks; and then the time shall return, and the street shall be built, and the wall, and the times shall be exhausted.

Ezra 6:14 Brenton
And the elders of the Jews and the Levites built, at the prophecy of Aggaeus the prophet, and Zacharias the son of Addo: and they built up, and finished it, by the decree of the God of Israel, and by the decree of Cyrus, and Darius, and Arthasastha, kings of the Persians.

Much love!

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Ezra 6:14 KJV+
14) And the eldersH7868 of the JewsH3062 builded,H1124 and they prosperedH6744 through the prophesyingH5017 of HaggaiH2292 the prophetH5029 and ZechariahH2148 the sonH1247 of Iddo.H5714 And they builded,H1124 and finishedH3635 it, accordingH4481 to the commandmentH2941 of the GodH426 of Israel,H3479 and according toH4481 the commandmentH2942 of Cyrus,H3567 and Darius,H1868 and ArtaxerxesH783 kingH4430 of Persia.H6540

I never noticed before . . . two different words are used for the commandment of God, and the commandment of the kings. I'm not versed in Hebrew though.

Daniel 9:25 KJV+
25) KnowH3045 therefore and understand,H7919 that fromH4480 the going forthH4161 of the commandmentH1697 to restoreH7725 and to buildH1129 JerusalemH3389 untoH5704 the MessiahH4899 the PrinceH5057 shall be sevenH7651 weeks,H7620 and threescoreH8346 and twoH8147 weeks:H7620 the streetH7339 shall be builtH1129 again,H7725 and the wall,H2742 even in troublousH6695 times.H6256

In Daniel, he used a different word still.

Much love!

Keep going. You are on the right track to cracking it. As I showed before, Daniel NEVER uses that word to refer to the decrees of earthly kings.

 

[marks]

If I was a plumber and was told I could fix the leak by sawing through the drain pipes I would *not* study to prove how "open" I am. I would ignore the ridiculous suggestion.

2 Timothy 2:23-26 KJV
23) But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24) And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25) In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26) And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

This passage comes to mind.

Much love!