The (7th) Abomination That Maketh Desolate

[ewq1938]

It's about the LAKE of FIRE (molten lava) upon the whole earth, ignited by the Eternal "flaming fire" of Jesus' visible and Immortal Presence. 2 Thes. 1:7-8.

First, such an event does not appear in the bible. Second, Rev 20, the LOF is where the GWTJ is held, a place not on the Earth (nor in Heaven).

The Earth (and Heaven) will be destroyed by fire, but not at the second coming but when the GWTJ is held:

2Pe_3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

 

[Earburner]

First, such an event does not appear in the bible. Second, Rev 20, the LOF is where the GWTJ is held, a place not on the Earth (nor in Heaven).

The Earth (and Heaven) will be destroyed by fire, but not at the second coming but when the GWTJ is held:

2Pe_3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The event of Jesus being revealed from heaven, in flaming [fiery] fire, taking vengeance on ALL the unsaved wicked, is indeed biblical.
Please notice the word "when" that is written twice in KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10.

The GWTJ has been taking place in and by the mortal death of EVERY person, in EVERY generation, ever since Jesus' death and resurrection.
KJV John 3[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned [judged]: but he that believeth not is condemned [judged] ALREADY, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Rom. 8
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[ewq1938]

The GWTJ has been taking place in and by the mortal death of EVERY person, in EVERY generation, ever since Jesus' death and resurrection.

No, it hasn't. It's a special one time event when the unsaved dead resurrect to be judged and punished to the second death in the LOF. It happens far into the future.

You conflate the second death with the first death.

 

[Earburner]

No, it hasn't. It's a special one time event when the unsaved dead resurrect to be judged and punished to the second death in the LOF. It happens far into the future.

You conflate the second death with the first death.

If a person dies their mortal death, having never been born again through faith in Jesus as their Savior, Rom. 8:9 clearly defines their status of relationship with God.
By default, they are "condemned already". John 3:18.

 

[ewq1938]

If a person dies their mortal death, having never been born again through faith in Jesus as their Savior, Rom. 8:9 clearly defines their status of relationship with God.
By default, they are "condemned already". John 3:18.

The GWTJ does not happen until the unsaved are physically resurrected. They must die and be resurrected to be judged with all the others which is after the thousand years has ended, Rev 20. The GWTJ has not been happening for thousands of years. That is a Gnostic/New age belief and that is antichrist itself.

 

[Earburner]

The GWTJ does not happen until the unsaved are physically resurrected. They must die and be resurrected to be judged with all the others which is after the thousand years has ended, Rev 20. The GWTJ has not been happening for thousands of years. That is a Gnostic/New age belief and that is antichrist itself.

Seeing that all people, generated through Adam by seed, were NOT GIVEN an "eternally living soul" from God (KJV Gen. 2:7, 3:19-20**), please explain how an unsaved person, who does NOT HAVE the Holy Spirit of God within them, can be resurrected.

Are you saying that animals will be resurrected also?
**Note: Gen. 6:17, 7:22

God's judgment about "the second death", is nothing more than the absence of God's Gift of His Eternal Living Holy Spirit dwelling within a person, through faith in Jesus. John 3:18, 14:23; Rom. 8:9.

 

[ewq1938]

Seeing that all people, generated through Adam by seed, were NOT GIVEN an "eternally living soul" from God (KJV Gen. 2:7, 3:19-20**), please explain how an unsaved person, who does NOT HAVE the Holy Spirit of God within them, can be resurrected.

God says he will resurrect them.

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

First group resurrection: "to everlasting life"
Second group resurrection: "to shame and everlasting contempt"


Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life ; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation

First group resurrection: "resurrection of life"
Second group resurrection: "the resurrection of damnation"


Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

First group resurrection: "the just"
Second group resurrection: the "unjust"

Take note that in every passage where the resurrection of the saved and unsaved are mentioned that the saved or just is always mentioned first. That's important because it is they that resurrect first! Scripture never deviates in this order. Revelation, John, Daniel and Acts all say the saved first, then the unsaved in that exact order.


Luk 14:12 Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor thy rich neighbours; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompence be made thee.
Luk 14:13 But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:
Luk 14:14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

He did not say the resurrection of the just and unjust. He said only the just. Again, this is evidence of two separate resurrections. The resurrection of the just is only of the just, no one else.

What we learn from these verses is that there are two resurrections. One resurrection is to life and the other resurrection is to damnation and contempt. Two resurrections! Never is there a single resurrection of both righteous and unrighteous at the same time.

God's judgment about "the second death", is nothing more than the absence of God's Gift of His Eternal Living Holy Spirit dwelling within a person, through faith in Jesus. John 3:18, 14:23; Rom. 8:9.

No, they already had been living with the absence of the Holy Spirit. The second death is when they have been resurrected back to moral life so they can die a second time in the LOF.

 

[Earburner]

God says he will resurrect them.

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

First group resurrection: "to everlasting life"
Second group resurrection: "to shame and everlasting contempt"


Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life ; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation

First group resurrection: "resurrection of life"
Second group resurrection: "the resurrection of damnation"


Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

First group resurrection: "the just"
Second group resurrection: the "unjust"

Take note that in every passage where the resurrection of the saved and unsaved are mentioned that the saved or just is always mentioned first. That's important because it is they that resurrect first! Scripture never deviates in this order. Revelation, John, Daniel and Acts all say the saved first, then the unsaved in that exact order.


Luk 14:12 Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor thy rich neighbours; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompence be made thee.
Luk 14:13 But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind:
Luk 14:14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

He did not say the resurrection of the just and unjust. He said only the just. Again, this is evidence of two separate resurrections. The resurrection of the just is only of the just, no one else.

What we learn from these verses is that there are two resurrections. One resurrection is to life and the other resurrection is to damnation and contempt. Two resurrections! Never is there a single resurrection of both righteous and unrighteous at the same time.

No, there is only one resurrection, and that is of the just and the unjust. There is no separate, second resurrection of the unsaved at any time.

All we who are born again, are already part-icipants in the very FIRST resurrection, who is Jesus Himself, and "are made to be part-takers of the divine nature". Therefore, we ARE NOW "blessed and holy", by "having part" in Christ's resurrection, and are only patiently waiting to be made into the likeness of His Immortality upon His appearance.
2 Tim. 4
[1] I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall JUDGE [both] the  QUICK (those having His Holy Spirit) and the DEAD (those having not His Holy Spirit) AT HIS  APPEARING and his kingdom; Rom. 8:9, 2 Thes. 1:7-10.

[8] Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me AT THAT DAY: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his  APPEARING.

John 11
[25] Jesus said unto her, I AM the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

[26] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me SHALL NEVER DIE. Believest thou this?

No, they already had been living with the absence of the Holy Spirit. The second death is when they have been resurrected back to moral life so they can die a second time in the LOF.

The origin of the LOF is the very Day of Jesus' appearance from heaven, in flaming fire.

 

[ewq1938]

No, there is only one resurrection, and that is of the just and the unjust. There is no separate, second resurrection of the unsaved at any time.

I already proved there are two resurrections. You predictably ignored all the scriptures posted so you could deny what they say to protect your current theology.

 

[Earburner]

I already proved there are two resurrections. You predictably ignored all the scriptures posted so you could deny what they say to protect your current theology.

You didn't prove anything of the sort, except that of you own perspective, which is derived by using Rev. 20 to interpret the NT scriptures, whereas in my perspective, I do the opposite. I use all of the NT scriptures to interpret Rev. 20.
The bottom line of Rev. 20 is verse 15.
See also John 3:3-8, 11:25-26; Rom. 8:9.

Mat. 7
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. [John 3:3-8; Luke 10:20; Heb. 12:23].

[22] Many will say to me in that day [Mat. 25:1-12; 2 Thes. 1:7-10], Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never  KNEW you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. [See Rom. 8:9].

 

[ewq1938]

You didn't prove anything of the sort

Yes I did further evidenced by your avoidance of all the scriptures posted showing two different resurrections of end times prophecy. You cannot address them because they prove you wrong.

 

[Earburner]

Yes I did further evidenced by your avoidance of all the scriptures posted showing two different resurrections of end times prophecy. You cannot address them because they prove you wrong.

2 Tim. 4
[1] I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall JUDGE [both] the  QUICK (those having His Holy Spirit) and the DEAD (those having not His Holy Spirit) AT HIS  APPEARING and his kingdom; Rom. 8:9, 2 Thes. 1:7-10.

 

[ewq1938]

2 Tim. 4
[1] I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall JUDGE [both] the  QUICK (those having His Holy Spirit) and the DEAD (those having not His Holy Spirit) AT HIS  APPEARING and his kingdom; Rom. 8:9, 2 Thes. 1:7-10.

You avoided the multiple scriptures showing two resurrections. There are two resurrections not one. The above scripture is speaking of the living and dead in Christ being judged at the Coming. A second judgment happens a thousand years later as found in Rev 20.

 

[Earburner]

You avoided the multiple scriptures showing two resurrections. There are two resurrections not one. The above scripture is speaking of the living and dead in Christ being judged at the Coming. A second judgment happens a thousand years later as found in Rev 20.

You assume that there are two separate resurrections, because of your understanding of what the 1000 years is about, and when it takes place. You think it is literal and is still a future event.
However, I understand that the 1000 years is figurative, and has been going on ever since Christ's Ascension and the giving of the Holy Spirit of God, which has been the Age of God's Grace towards all people.
(EDIT: If it were not for God's plan for our salvation, through the work and sacrifice of
God the Son Himself, the entirety of this world and the earth itself, would've been ended then in flaming fire.
Heb. 9
[26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.)

In my estimation, you are not discerning Rev. 20:4-7 correctly, because you do not perceive that only Jesus is "the First resurrection", and all we who are "born again" of His Spirit, are blessed and holy by taking part in HIS RESURRECTION (His divine nature), who alone is the FIRSTborn from the dead.

Edit:
Moreover, "the camp of the saints" is WHERE (within each) the Lord does NOW dwell. "The KoG of is within you".
By His Eternal Holy Spirit, through faith in Christ, God Himself can now permanently dwell/tabernacle within our "temporary" mortal bodies.
All individual born again Christians are a "camp" unto the Lord. (Did you think that the Lord's sacrifice was ONLY for us?? Think again.)
That is the true meaning of what the "Feast of Tabernacles" means, and not what the Jews have made out of it.

 

[Earburner]

The above scripture is speaking of the living and dead in Christ being judged at the Coming. A second judgment happens a thousand years later as found in Rev 20.

You don't understand KJV John 3:18.
Those who have died IN Christ, and those who are alive IN Christ, and are remaining at His coming, ARE NOT condemned. Nor shall they be judged at anytime before, during or after the fact.
All who are professing Christ, but were never born again of His Holy Spirit, are "condemned already", and are "workers of iniquity", being "none of His".

 

[Timtofly]

You didn't prove anything of the sort, except that of you own perspective, which is derived by using Rev. 20 to interpret the NT scriptures, whereas in my perspective, I do the opposite. I use all of the NT scriptures to interpret Rev. 20.
The bottom line of Rev. 20 is verse 15.
See also John 3:3-8, 11:25-26; Rom. 8:9.

Mat. 7
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. [John 3:3-8; Luke 10:20; Heb. 12:23].

[22] Many will say to me in that day [Mat. 25:1-12; 2 Thes. 1:7-10], Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never  KNEW you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. [See Rom. 8:9].

Your interpretation is still just your own opinion, though. All the OT redeemed already experienced their last day resurrection at the Cross. They all came out of their graves just like Lazarus, and ascended to Paradise on Resurrection Sunday.

All you people who place their resurrection eggs in one resurrection basket are denying the actual Words of God in Scripture.

The OT redeemed waiting in Abraham's bosom were all the firstfruits, and experienced the first resurrection that is physical, when Jesus declared, "It is finished".

That was the end of the OT Covenant God had with all humanity prior to the Cross. None in Christ since the Cross, including the thief, had to wait in death, nor taste death like the OT redeemed waiting in Abraham's bosom. Physical death is just the beginning of eternal life in a physical body in Paradise. That is why no one tasted death after the Cross.

You don't seem to accept nor believe that Jesus was the Resurrection and the Life. You claim nothing happens until a final resurrection after thousands of years, post the Cross. Your resurrection is only a spiritual place holder without substance.

 

[Earburner]

Your interpretation is still just your own opinion, though. All the OT redeemed already experienced their last day resurrection at the Cross. They all came out of their graves just like Lazarus, and ascended to Paradise on Resurrection Sunday.

All you people who place their resurrection eggs in one resurrection basket are denying the actual Words of God in Scripture.

The OT redeemed waiting in Abraham's bosom were all the firstfruits, and experienced the first resurrection that is physical, when Jesus declared, "It is finished".

That was the end of the OT Covenant God had with all humanity prior to the Cross. None in Christ since the Cross, including the thief, had to wait in death, nor taste death like the OT redeemed waiting in Abraham's bosom. Physical death is just the beginning of eternal life in a physical body in Paradise. That is why no one tasted death after the Cross.

You don't seem to accept nor believe that Jesus was the Resurrection and the Life. You claim nothing happens until a final resurrection after thousands of years, post the Cross. Your resurrection is only a spiritual place holder without substance.

Yes! All of the OC saints, who died in faith of the Messiah-Jesus, who was to come, were remembered by God in Malachi 3:16, and therefore were rewarded at the Cross of Jesus' death and resurrection. We see them as rewarded by being given the Gift of the Holy Spirit (white robes), and they now are resting and asleep in Jesus. Rev. 6:9-11. God did not forget them!!
They quite literally are the figurative 144,000 of Israel. They indeed are now virgins, being THE FIRSTFRUITS of God, who follow the Lamb wheresoever He goeth".

All of that world, prior to the first manifestation of Jesus in mortal flesh, was the "Age of Indignation", which came to an END at Jesus' Cross, of whom brought in the present "Age of God's Grace" (the figurative 1000 years of God's longsuffering over us and His Gift of Salvation, through faith in Jesus.- 2 Peter 3:9 and 15)
Unfortunatetly, "church-ianity" (the wisdom of men) attempts to marry those two Ages together, and therefore conjure up the doctrines of men, such as a "Pre-tribulation rapture" and "Pre-millenialism".

I agree with most all of what you say, but you are clearly misinformed about what happens "when" Jesus returns "in flaming fire".
In the KJV only- 2 Thes. 1:7-10, look for the word "WHEN", which is written in TWO places of those verses. It is describing a simultaneous event of destruction of ALL the unsaved wicked (graves included), and redemption for ALL the saints (OC. Saints of faith included). (Luke 17:28-30).
2 Thes. 1
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

 

[ewq1938]

You assume that there are two separate resurrections, because of your understanding of what the 1000 years is about, and when it takes place.

There are zero assumptions on my part. There are two resurrections. Here are the verses you ignore so you can deny them:


Revelation 20 speaks of two groups of the dead that resurrect/live again.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection is the resurrection of this first group of the dead because they resurrect first. The rest of the dead have to wait for their resurrection:

"the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" (Rev 20:5)

This is the last resurrection of those who are dead. One group resurrected and "the rest" or the remaining ones did not resurrect when the others did.

This proves they partake of the second resurrection also known as the last resurrection because no one is still physically dead after they "live again". This also proves without a doubt that there are two separate days of resurrection separated by a thousand years and how long that actually is doesn't matter.

Part of the dead resurrect and then "the rest of the dead" will resurrect after a period of time. That's the dead resurrecting in two parts separated by a period of time.


The first group resurrects before the thousand years begins and the second/last group resurrects after the end of the thousand years.



Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

First group resurrection: "to everlasting life"
Second group resurrection: "to shame and everlasting contempt"


Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life ; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation

First group resurrection: "resurrection of life"
Second group resurrection: "the resurrection of damnation"


Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

First group resurrection: "the just"
Second group resurrection: the "unjust"

Take note that in every passage where the resurrection of the saved and unsaved are mentioned that the saved or just is always mentioned first. That's important because it is they that resurrect first! Scripture never deviates in this order. Revelation, John, Daniel and Acts all say the saved first, then the unsaved in that exact order.

 

[Earburner]

There are zero assumptions on my part. There are two resurrections. Here are the verses you ignore so you can deny them:


Revelation 20 speaks of two groups of the dead that resurrect/live again.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection is the resurrection of this first group of the dead because they resurrect first. The rest of the dead have to wait for their resurrection:

"the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" (Rev 20:5)

This is the last resurrection of those who are dead. One group resurrected and "the rest" or the remaining ones did not resurrect when the others did.

This proves they partake of the second resurrection also known as the last resurrection because no one is still physically dead after they "live again". This also proves without a doubt that there are two separate days of resurrection separated by a thousand years and how long that actually is doesn't matter.

Part of the dead resurrect and then "the rest of the dead" will resurrect after a period of time. That's the dead resurrecting in two parts separated by a period of time.


The first group resurrects before the thousand years begins and the second/last group resurrects after the end of the thousand years.



Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

First group resurrection: "to everlasting life"
Second group resurrection: "to shame and everlasting contempt"


Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life ; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation

First group resurrection: "resurrection of life"
Second group resurrection: "the resurrection of damnation"


Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

First group resurrection: "the just"
Second group resurrection: the "unjust"

Take note that in every passage where the resurrection of the saved and unsaved are mentioned that the saved or just is always mentioned first. That's important because it is they that resurrect first! Scripture never deviates in this order. Revelation, John, Daniel and Acts all say the saved first, then the unsaved in that exact order.

As I have said before, "the book of Rev. IS NOT a stand alone book".

The Premillenlist uses only Rev. 20 to interpret and understand ALL OF the NT scriptures.
IOWs, they put their doctrine of men ahead of ALL NT scripture, in order to discern the Lord's Truth.

The Amillenialist uses ALL OF the NT scriptures to interpret Rev. 20.
IOWs, they put the doctrine of Christ ahead of ALL NT. scripture, in order to discern the Lord's Truth.

1 Cor. 2[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but [rather] in the power [Holy Spirit] of God.

 

[ewq1938]

As I have said before, "the book of Rev. IS NOT a stand alone book".

Strawman fallacy.

The Premillenlist uses only Rev. 20 to interpret and understand ALL OF the NT scriptures.
IOWs, they put their doctrine of men ahead of ALL NT scripture, in order to discern the Lord's Truth.

The Amillenialist uses ALL OF the NT scriptures to interpret Rev. 20.
IOWs, they put the doctrine of Christ ahead of ALL NT. scripture, in order to discern the Lord's Truth.

Then why are you ignoring all the non-Rev scriptures that prove your one resurrection belief to be wrong?