The (7th) Abomination That Maketh Desolate

[grafted branch]

No, Daniel was not there at the time of Jeremiah. The vision being referred to is the experience that both Daniel and Gabriel had with each other.

Where are you getting the idea that the vision has to be experienced by both Daniel and Gabriel? From where are you deriving that rule from?

The prince of the host of heaven. The little horn person will make the temple desolate of worship and praise of the One True God.

Ok, the temple that starts sacrificing animals isn’t desolate, it is worshipping and praising the one true God. This future temple then only becomes desolate once the sacrificing stops.

Would you be willing to partake in the sacrificing of animals as a form of worship in your church?

The animal sacrifices will begin again, 7 months into the seven years. I show the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14 on my chart below.

I’ve looked at that chart, why didn’t Jesus say leave Judea when you see the TOD? Then you can go ahead and get things out of your house, get your clothes, you wouldn’t have to worry about being pregnant or whether it was the sabbath or not. If you wait until the AOD then it becomes an emergency situation.

Why would someone wait around until the AOD? I assume your chart will be available to them.

 

[Douggg]

The referent of "the prince that shall come" is "Messiah the Prince" in verse 25.

The Romans were the agents and servants, the people, of Messiah, to accomplish His purposes of judgment and destruction upon the nation that had rejected Him.

Multitudes of Jews have accepted Jesus' gospel of salvation since His Sacrifice at Calvary in the middle of the 70th week.

Jesus did not come to destroy the sanctuary and city. The whole world knows that Israel has not yet embraced Jesus as the messiah.

The stage is being set for the Gog/Magog event and the 70th week during which Israel, the Jews, will turn to Jesus. Why do you not acknowledge the contents of Ezekiel 39 ?

 

[covenantee]

Jesus did not come to destroy the sanctuary and city. The whole world knows that Israel has not yet embraced Jesus as the messiah.

The stage is being set for the Gog/Magog event and the 70th week during which Israel, the Jews, will turn to Jesus. Why do you not acknowledge the contents of Ezekiel 39 ?

The destruction of Jerusalem was Divinely Ordained to signal the passing of the old covenant and all of its vestiges, and to affirm the establishment of the New Covenant and the spiritual Kingdom of God.

Aware Christians know that multitudes of Jews have embraced Christ since Calvary.

Why do you not acknowledge the referents in Daniel 9:25-27?

 

[Douggg]

Where are you getting the idea that the vision has to be experienced by both Daniel and Gabriel? From where are you deriving that rule from?

Because Daniel 8 is where Daniel and Gabriel first encountered each "at the beginning". The beginning of their relationship with each other.

21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

Ok, the temple that starts sacrificing animals isn’t desolate, it is worshipping and praising the one true God. This future temple then only becomes desolate once the sacrificing stops.

Would you be willing to partake in the sacrificing of animals as a form of worship in your church?

Since I am not a Jew (Judaism), no. Jews will be the one building the next temple, not Christians.

I’ve looked at that chart, why didn’t Jesus say leave Judea when you see the TOD? Then you can go ahead and get things out of your house, get your clothes, you wouldn’t have to worry about being pregnant or whether it was the sabbath or not. If you wait until the AOD then it becomes an emergency situation.

Because the ToD is not the AoD. As soon as the Antichrist commits the ToD, it breaks the peace and safety perception of the false messianic age, and war breaks out. Which some factions decide to remove him from power. And assassinates him.

Some of his followers will stage a funeral for him - globally televised. Which he sits up in the casket back alive. The AoD is shown on my chart, on day 1185, and annotated - "the Jews fleeing to the mountains - Matthew 24:15-21".

 

[Douggg]

The destruction of Jerusalem was Divinely Ordained to signal the passing of the old covenant and all of its vestiges, and to affirm the establishment of the New Covenant and the spiritual Kingdom of God.

Aware Christians know that multitudes of Jews have embraced Christ since Calvary.

Why do you not acknowledge the referents in Daniel 9:25-27?

I do acknowledge that the He in Daniel 9:27 refers to the Prince who shall come, not to the messiah. I also acknowledge that Israel does not believe that Jesus is the messiah.

Why do you not acknowledge the contents of Ezekiel 39 ? The verses contain Israel and Jesus's Second Coming.

 

[covenantee]

I do acknowledge that the He in Daniel 9:27 refers to the Prince who shall come, not to the messiah. I also acknowledge that Israel does not believe that Jesus is the messiah.

Why do you not acknowledge the contents of Ezekiel 39 ? The verses contain Israel and Jesus's Second Coming.

You refuse, with no reason, to acknowledge that "Messiah the Prince" is a qualifying grammatical referent of "the prince who shall come".

Grammar is comprised of the fixed objective rules governing a language. Interpretation is subjective and variable.

The objective rules of grammar must be applied and satisfied before the subjectivities of interpretation.

Do that, and then we can discuss Ezekiel 39.

 

[Douggg]

You refuse, with no reason, to acknowledge that "Messiah the Prince" is a qualifying grammatical referent of "the prince who shall come".

Grammar is comprised of the fixed objective rules governing a language. Interpretation is subjective and variable.

The objective rules of grammar must be applied and satisfied before the subjectivities of interpretation.

Do that, and then we can discuss Ezekiel 39.

You are stuck and can't go to Ezekiel 39.

 

[covenantee]

You are stuck and can't go to Ezekiel 39.

You are stuck on grammatical denial.

 

[Douggg]

You are stuck on grammatical denial.

You are. Ezekiel 39 has Israel and Jesus's Second Coming in the verses as well as the 70th week, during which the vision referred to in Daniel 9:21-24 will be fulfilled.

 

[grafted branch]

Because Daniel 8 is where Daniel and Gabriel first encountered each "at the beginning". The beginning of their relationship with each other.

21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

Daniel 9:21(NIV) while I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice.

The KJV says whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning. It just means the first vision, the words “at the beginning” <8462> is interpreted as beginning eleven times and as first, first time, previously, or before ten times. This is not a strong argument.

Since I am not a Jew (Judaism), no. Jews will be the one building the next temple, not Christians.

So Jews can currently worship the one true God by making sacrifices but Gentiles can’t? I thought the book of Hebrews was written to Jews. How can a Jew worship God through sacrificing?

Because the ToD is not the AoD. As soon as the Antichrist commits the ToD, it breaks the peace and safety perception of the false messianic age, and war breaks out. Which some factions decide to remove him from power. And assassinates him.

But common sense would tell people to leave when they see the TOD. Do you have an answer as to why Jesus wanted people to hang around till the AOD?

 

[covenantee]

You are. Ezekiel 39 has Israel and Jesus's Second Coming in the verses as well as the 70th week, during which the vision of Daniel 9:24 will be fulfilled.

You are stuck attempting to override grammatical objectivity with your interpretive subjectivity.

 

[Douggg]

So Jews can currently worship the one true God by making sacrifices but Gentiles can’t? I thought the book of Hebrews was written to Jews. How can a Jew worship God through sacrificing?

Gentiles were never instructed to perform the daily sacrifice. The Jews (Judaism) currently base their religion on the Mt. Sinai covenant which established the daily sacrifice.

But common sense would tell people to leave when they see the TOD. Do you have an answer as to why Jesus wanted people to hang around till the AOD?

The ToD takes place inside the temple. Differently, the AoD will be placed out in the open on the temple mount - viewable by everyone.

 

[Douggg]

You are stuck attempting to override grammatical objectivity with your interpretive subjectivity.

I am not stuck. I understand the correct grammar understanding of Daniel 9:25-27. And verify it as being correct - by what it says Ezekiel 39. As well as the 7 years 70th week in Revelation.

 

[covenantee]

I am not stuck. I understand the correct grammar understanding of Daniel 9:25-27. And verify it as being correct - by what it says Ezekiel 39. As well as the 7 years 70th week in Revelation.

You are stuck attempting to replace (via replacement ideology) objective Biblical grammar with your subjective private interpretations.

 

[Douggg]

Daniel 9:21(NIV) while I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice.

The KJV says whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning. It just means the first vision, the words “at the beginning” <8462> is interpreted as beginning eleven times and as first, first time, previously, or before ten times. This is not a strong argument.

The earlier vision is the one Daniel had in Daniel 8. Gabriel first appeared to Daniel in Daniel 8:15-26.

 

[Douggg]

You are stuck attempting to replace (via replacement ideology) objective Biblical grammar with your subjective private interpretations.

Replacement theology is a doctrine that the church has replaced Israel in regards to God's future promises to Israel. I do not hold to the replacement theology doctrine.

 

[covenantee]

Replacement theology is a doctrine that the church has replaced Israel in regards to God's future promises to Israel. I do not hold to the replacement theology doctrine.

I described your replacement attempts as "replacement ideology" to distinguish them from "replacement theology".

 

[Douggg]

I described your replacement attempts as "replacement ideology" to distinguish them from "replacement theology".

I did not replace anything in Daniel 9. Instead, you have many misunderstandings of the contents in Daniel 9.

What is the vision in Daniel 9:21-24 ?

 

[covenantee]

I did not replace anything in Daniel 9. Instead, you have many misunderstandings of the contents in Daniel 9.

What is the vision in Daniel 9:21-24 ?

Let's first resolve what we're already discussing, the identity of "the prince who shall come".

Grammatically, he is "Messiah the Prince".

 

[Douggg]

Let's first resolve what we're already discussing, the identity of "the prince who shall come".

Grammatically, he is "Messiah the Prince".

You are struck saying the same thing over and over, as if that makes it correct.

I am asking you about the vision in Daniel 9:21-24. That will prove the 70th week is still unfulfilled.