The 9 incredible verses of Romans 6:15-23

[williemac]

Bravo!!! All kinds of verses quoted! Such wonderful language, too! However, why don't you clearly speak your mind?

I'll speak plainly... The bottom line is that we live by faith. And we live it day by day. There is no guarentee of tomorrow. Yes, we have Word of predestination. Yes we have assurance that if we follow the plan, we have it. Yes, we have a guarentee of eternal security, but only if we follow the plan day by day. In other words, our faith is only sufficient for today. Tomorrow it must be renewed and it will be. We don't have a lifetime membership, but we do have a perpetual and renewable daily membership. And that will last for ever, on a daily basis, but it still ain't a lifetime membership.

Yes we have a promise of salvation which was ordained before the foundations of the world. Let me clearly point it out, we are chosen and we will persevere. But we do it day by day by day... I have a guarentee of eternal salvation, but it's only good for today. Renewable tomorrow, but good only for today.

I gave my verses on that and told why it was so. Furthermore, the Holy Spirit told me I was right! Yea! The Holy Spirit himself! See, I know who the Holy Spirit is, and I've seen him face to face. Hell, if you folks can claim it, so can I. The difference is I can identify the Holy Spirit and there are folks who see him as Casper the friendly Holy Ghost! Claimed to have been taught by them in a dream!!!!! That spirit told them all kinds of wonderful things!!!! Private revelations no less!!!!

I got a Bible and a man of God who explains it to me. What do you got????

Jumping in, here. What we got is everlasting life (John5:24). What we got is a new man (Eph.4:24), which is what qualifies us to be called a new creation (2 Cor.5:17). Old things have passed away and all things have become new. Faith does not need to be renewed daily. We do not need to repeat the process over and over again. We are born again once and no more. (Heb.6:1-6) . What we are told is that we simply need to not fall back (Heb.10:39). This is not a renewing, but simply remaining as we are. Jesus said "abide in Me", also translated "remain in Me". The bottom line is, just don't change your mind. The mind does not reset while sleeping. Our faith is the same tomorrow as it was today if we don't deliberately change our mind and fall away from it.

A little, advice. The Holy Spirit cannot be seen face to face. If we see the heavens opened up as Stephen did, we will see the Father and the Son. Their presence is brought to our inner man by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. If you saw anyone face to face, it would have been Jesus, your Lord. The Holy Spirit came to deliver Him to the world. He testifies of Jesus.

But the advice is to refrain from using the old "God told me" line. We all could do that. That would get us nowhere. He is not divided against Himself. If we have disagreements it is because we are humans who are fallible. Besides, if everyone was right, there'd be no one left .

 

[FHII]

Number 1: I do believe that faith has to be renewed day by day, and I can give you verses.
Number 2: We can see the Holy Ghost and God face to face if you know who the Holy Ghost is and you know the requirement for seeing God.

Yea.... I actually believe that!

Nlumber 3: I agree with you. We can all use the line "God told me". And I do. God has told me many things. But he did it through the Bible and the ministry. Not Casper the Friendly Holy Ghost. There is nothing that God has told me that he hasn't told you if you read the Bible and if you sit under a man of God who is annointed. I'll place an "*" after that last part, because that'll need some explaining. But when Peter, Paul or John spoke.... Folks got the Holy Spirit.
Number 4: We are human (well, at least trapped in bone and sinew) and are fallible. And if we were all right, yep... There would be on one left. Well, THAT'S MY GOAL!!! Either I will convince you of the Truth or you will convince me and correct me. Either way.... One mind and one heart.... Then we can get the hell out of here.

But thanks for the advice.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

Not sure.... But there is some thing off about this. I love Romans 6! But there is something off about the presentation. It might have something to do with Romans 5. And Romans 8. Well, Romans 5 tells me that no matter how much sin I have, grace abounds even more so. And Romans 8 tells me that nothing can separate me from the love of Christ. Not even me!

I have never defended sin.... But I always defend God's grace as sufficient for any sin I do.

But again.... Maybe I'm off in understanding this post. I just think we can't isolate a few verses from the message as a whole.

And let's be real... This post is nothing more than an effort to discredit predestination and introduce works into the equation. For example.... The Holy Ghost (the spirit of truth, Jesus' spirit, the Father's spirit, the Truth) really doesn't need my help, as this post suggests.

If you notice in Romans 8 it ASKS Who:
Rom 8:36
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
KJV

Will you throw down the love of the Truth(thy Word is truth) when these things come against you? Will you like Peter did 3 times deny the Lord for fear of persecution? How about tribulation? distress?famine? nakedness? peril? sword?

If you are able to keep your faith and faithfulness to abide in the Word and the Word in you as you seek God to strengthen you from these things above and not fall into temptation to be overtaken to fall away, then God WILL give you the victory in these areas below for your faithfulness:
Rom 8:36-39
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
KJV

We must first seek the spiritual thing to do and then the natural manifestation of our victory FROM GOD will follow

Number 1: I do believe that faith has to be renewed day by day, and I can give you verses.
Number 2: We can see the Holy Ghost and God face to face if you know who the Holy Ghost is and you know the requirement for seeing God.

Yea.... I actually believe that!

Nlumber 3: I agree with you. We can all use the line "God told me". And I do. God has told me many things. But he did it through the Bible and the ministry. Not Casper the Friendly Holy Ghost. There is nothing that God has told me that he hasn't told you if you read the Bible and if you sit under a man of God who is annointed. I'll place an "*" after that last part, because that'll need some explaining. But when Peter, Paul or John spoke.... Folks got the Holy Spirit.
Number 4: We are human (well, at least trapped in bone and sinew) and are fallible. And if we were all right, yep... There would be on one left. Well, THAT'S MY GOAL!!! Either I will convince you of the Truth or you will convince me and correct me. Either way.... One mind and one heart.... Then we can get the hell out of here.

But thanks for the advice.

The Spirit does speak to our spirit and reveals truth and convicts our hearts to open our eyes of sin that needs to be dealt with in our ways, for that is the purpose of having a better covenant for we have the HELPER the Spirit of God who guides the TRUE believer to perfect them into the image of Christ.

Here is only one of many examples of God speaking directly to my spirit for a conviction to open my eyes to give me opportunity to renew my mind. Our con-science is for our good.
I had a bad heart issue of greed and idolatry regarding an item that I really wanted to keep for I use it all the time, I had offered to someone because I thought it would be of help to them(Good motive). But once I offered it and they agreed to accept it, I could tell by their response that they really did not care about the item and was only taking it to not reject a gift. So what I did is I never mentioned it again because I thought why give it to someone who really shows no interest in it? And I kept it. I kept having conscience about it, so I talked to God about how I could see that this person was only taking it because I offered and was not really interested in it at all so I am going to quit feeling guilty about it. And just as soon as I said "they don't really care about it" I heard (not audible, but as in the words thought) NO, BUT YOU DO! God was showing me that I kept it because I was walking in idolatry and greed. We must be good to our word and not go back on it for our lusts of the flesh.

 

[Prentis]

Sorry Prentis..... I've followed your posts a long time and I think I know your mind.... Maybe not. Sometimes you come off TO ME (maybe my fault) as like Joel Osteen. I'm a warrior in the Word.... I don't have time for playing around. Humble? Sure.... I'm humble to God. Not to others who believe false doctrine. I am loving to them, just not "Joel Osteen" humble....

"The servant of God must have a humble attitude..."

Um.... Samuel hewed with a sword pagans.... He forsaked Saul in the process. AND God was mad at Saul for not KILLING the pagans!

Jehu.... Well.... Where do I begin!

Isaiah went naked.... Showed his full monty and said, "This is what you are to God!"

Jesus beat people out of a temple with a whip which he made, so he had plenty of time to think about it.

Peter asked, "Why have you lied to the Holy Ghost" and pronounced a death sentance.

Paul threatened to "bewail" the Corinthians.



But... OK... Maybe I was a bit harsh on you.... Sorry.

I don't think you understood what I was getting to... and I'm not sure I'm getting what you're trying to get to.

The verse I used was about being humble towards God. My point is about not claiming more than we have. Men love to claim justification for themselves. But we must be careful of this, the Pharisees did this also ('We are sons of Abraham'). We could be the unfaithful servant for all we know, and rejected. The point is don't proclaim a judgment upon yourself, let God do it. Paul said 'I do not even judge myself'.

1 Cor 4:3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.

The prophet who is sent must be bold towards men, but that's because he is sent. To be bold in what God has shown us is one thing. To claim for ourselves salvation and justification is an entirely other one. As I had said 'We need to patiently endure that we might receive the promises given us, In this we need to remain humble and not claim more for ourselves.' That's my point.

Blessings! :)

 

[musterion]

To claim for ourselves salvation and justification is an entirely other [matter].

But what of this?

"BEING JUSTIFIED FREELY BY HIS GRACE through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith is His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; to declare, I say, at this time His righteousness: that He might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus." Rom. 3:24-26.

My understanding of the Greek here is that "being justified" is in a continuous sense. If so, that does not mean the believer in Christ in a yet-to-be-finalized, conditional state of justification which may be lost, and so he must work to keep his justification. Just the opposite: the believer is CONTINUALLY justified before God, meaning permanently. Justification from sin by God is never the work of the individial, neither before, at nor after his coming to Christ.This harmonizes completely with,

“In whom WE HAVE REDEMPTION through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace”
(Eph. 1:7).

See the connection? We are continually justified by God because we HAVE received redemption, the forgiveness of all sin, in Christ, by the cross.

It is on this same basis God can (and did) declare the believer in Christ DEAD to the condemning Law, both as a source of condemnation and as a way of life until called home. I like the way a friend of mine put it:

The letter of the law of holiness is expressed well in Proverbs 17:15:

“He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord.”

But isn’t that what God did at the Cross, when He condemned “that Just One” (Acts 22:14) and justified wicked sinners such as ourselves? In so doing, He surely broke the letter of the law of holiness.

Or did He?

For those who would argue that God was not acting in accord with the law of holiness, we would reply that when God the Father took your sins and placed them on the Lord Jesus Christ at Calvary, He justly condemned the One who, in our place, was made wicked (2 Cor. 5:21). Then when you believed the gospel, God took Christ's righteousness and put it on you, enabling God to justify the ones who were made the very righteousness of God in Christ (2 Cor. 5:21). The resurrection of Christ then proved that this was also done in perfect accord with the spirit of holiness, for Christ’s sacrifice surely satisfied the just demands of God’s righteousness.

If you haven’t yet trusted Christ as your Savior, however, God has not yet given you the righteousness that is available only in Christ. Speaking of the Lord Jesus, the Apostle Paul says,

“In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Eph. 1:7).

The forgiveness of sins purchased by Christ’s blood is only available in Him. If you are not in Christ, you are still “in trespasses and sins” (Eph. 2:1).

Note again that the redemption "is in Christ Jesus."

Believers are in Christ Jesus.

Inseparable.

What He is, as to holiness, all who are in Him also are by God's decree. What He has, as to righteousness, all who are in Him also possess. God has said it. God does not lie.

If you've truly trusted Him, Prentis, rest in that truth.

 

[Prentis]

He has indeed freely cleansed us from the sins that are past. :)

In Christ we are indeed justified... But how can we then ignore the warnings to the one who has been grafted in, that he could be again cut out? How can we say abiding in Christ requires nothing of our will and selves if Jesus exhorts us to do so?

The truth is we have freely received all these things, and as the Word exhorts us, we must now add to our fait (2 Peter) and with patient endurance continue until we receive the promises.

2 Peter 1: 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins

When we think that end of the gospel is to cleanse us from our sins, we stop short of the true purpose. The gospel is that God cleanses us from our past sins for the purpose that we might now walk in the new nature and be as he is. The ground that receives the Word and produces good fruit is accepted, but the ground that receives the word and produces nothing but thorns and briers is rejected.

We have a high calling in Christ Jesus, so we must 'perfect holiness in the fear of God'.

Otherwise we might as well throw out all the warnings, the exhortations, the talks of the high calling and the power of God towards us.... But we want to receive the whole counsel of God. :)

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. (Titus 2)

That's the purpose of the gospel, that we be as he is. Blessings!

 

[musterion]

He has indeed freely cleansed us from the sins that are past. :)

ALL sins ( Col 2:13-14 ), friend Prentis, not just those that are past.

Closely contemplate v. 14. The means by which any condemnation is justly issued by God has been CANCELLED for those in Christ because HE took it upon Himself once and for all. That IS what it says. Do you deny it?

In Christ we are indeed justified... But how can we then ignore the warnings to the one who has been grafted in, that he could be again cut out? How can we say abiding in Christ requires nothing of our will and selves if Jesus exhorts us to do so?

I've dealt with Romans 9-11 elsehwere, as I think you read (you were at least on the thread, I think, though you never replied to those points as best I recall). Paul is not speaking of the salvation of individuals but of positions of usefulness to God, which Gentiles did not have until Christ brought us to God.

The truth is we have freely received all these things, and as the Word exhorts us, we must now add to our fait (2 Peter) and with patient endurance continue until we receive the promises.

2 Peter 1: 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins

If you would be so kind, please post 1 Peter 1:1 and 2 Peter 3.1. It may bring light on an important factor you're overlooking.

When we think that end of the gospel is to cleanse us from our sins, we stop short of the true purpose. The gospel is that God cleanses us from our past ALL sins for the purpose that we might now walk in the new nature and be as he is.

Agreed and amen.

The ground that receives the Word and produces good fruit is accepted, but the ground that receives the word and produces nothing but thorns and briers is rejected.

Who was being addressed when those warnings were given?

We have a high calling in Christ Jesus, so we must 'perfect holiness in the fear of God'. Otherwise we might as well throw out all the warnings, the exhortations, the talks of the high calling and the power of God towards us.... But we want to receive the whole counsel of God. :)

Prentis, you cannot be free of condemnation and dead to the Law before God, AND subject to potential damnation by Him at the same time. One of them has to go - you cannot have both. Pick one.

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. (Titus 2)

And in that very verse, whose job is it to see to it all that happens? Not yours. Not mine. His. We are HIS workmanship. You do not realize this but you are seeking to take burdens unto yourself which no man can shoulder, nor were we meant to...we ARE to desire it, to seek after it, to strive for it, but by His Spirit, not by our strength. It is HIS task to accomplish in us, not a level WE are to attain "or else."

 

[afaithfulone4u]

We must remember that righteousness is NOT the same as holiness. Job was righteous, Abraham was righteous but they still needed the blood of Jesus the very Spirit of the Word to be released to cleanse those who are able to receive him as the truth to live by. Our life or spirit, resides in our blood says God and that is why the blood of Jesus(Wine to drink in the Spirit of our adoption), which represents the Spirit of God, being the Spirit or Breath of life had to be shed to bring forth son's for God.
Jesus is the Word of Life (Bread of life) that we must feed upon. The Spirit and the Word indwell us to operate on our inwardly parts(heart) to imprint the Word upon our hearts so that we now longer need a law to just tell us what to do.. because we have it instilled in us to KNOW the Word personally.

Many just want their sins to just be covered saying that we can never change so Jesus died to take them away so that we can live without consequences.
No, Jesus died to ERASE our Past sins so that no man could boast of why they were accepted(clean slate)... but Jesus came to take away our sins little by little, by our daily SELF-sacrificing of our old man that is a slave to sin. The Spirit and the Word work in us to help shed those lustful ways and to raise us up in our spirit man so that we will eventually be INCORRUPTABLE for we will be trained in the Word as overcomers. No more temptation shall have dominion over our body.

Just to cover up sin and not deal with it, brings us back to square one.. To a world full of Darkness, Chaos, Destruction,Disease and eventually Death.

Rom 3:25
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of
sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
KJV
Rom 8:2
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
KJV
1 John 1:1-2
1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
KJV
Lev 17:11
11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
KJV

This is not saying that only if you loose your blood you loose your life.. for you can die without shedding a drop. OUR actual life or spirit resides in our bloodline. The seed of the man contains the bloodline of a child, that is why it is was allowed for a man to have many wives, but a woman must be faithful to one man so as not to contaminate the man's bloodline.Jesus is THE SEED of God and when we receive the Word into our hearts, The Seed grows to change us being born again of the Spirit of the Word. The SEED is the Word himself.
If this were to literally feed upon Jesus' flesh and blood body, the disciples would have been cannibals and instead of him being nailed to HIS Cross, his body would have been eaten. Feed upon the Word and Drink in the Spirit for they are life and health to our bones and flesh.
John 6:53-58
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
KJV

Man shall not live by natural bread alone... but by every WORD that proceedeth from the MOUTH OF GOD. My sheep(are those who) HEAR MY VOICE

John 15:26-27
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
KJV

John 8:42-44
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
KJV

In the beginning was THE Word.

He has indeed freely cleansed us from the sins that are past. :)

In Christ we are indeed justified... But how can we then ignore the warnings to the one who has been grafted in, that he could be again cut out? How can we say abiding in Christ requires nothing of our will and selves if Jesus exhorts us to do so?

The truth is we have freely received all these things, and as the Word exhorts us, we must now add to our fait (2 Peter) and with patient endurance continue until we receive the promises.

2 Peter 1: 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins

When we think that end of the gospel is to cleanse us from our sins, we stop short of the true purpose. The gospel is that God cleanses us from our past sins for the purpose that we might now walk in the new nature and be as he is. The ground that receives the Word and produces good fruit is accepted, but the ground that receives the word and produces nothing but thorns and briers is rejected.

We have a high calling in Christ Jesus, so we must 'perfect holiness in the fear of God'.

Otherwise we might as well throw out all the warnings, the exhortations, the talks of the high calling and the power of God towards us.... But we want to receive the whole counsel of God. :)

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. (Titus 2)

That's the purpose of the gospel, that we be as he is. Blessings!

Keep up the good works Prentis!!! : )

He has indeed freely cleansed us from the sins that are past. :)

ALL sins ( Col 2:13-14 ), friend Prentis, not just those that are past.

Closely contemplate v. 14. The means by which any condemnation is justly issued by God has been CANCELLED for those in Christ because HE took it upon Himself once and for all. That IS what it says. Do you deny it?

In Christ we are indeed justified... But how can we then ignore the warnings to the one who has been grafted in, that he could be again cut out? How can we say abiding in Christ requires nothing of our will and selves if Jesus exhorts us to do so?

I've dealt with Romans 9-11 elsehwere, as I think you read (you were at least on the thread, I think, though you never replied to those points as best I recall). Paul is not speaking of the salvation of individuals but of positions of usefulness to God, which Gentiles did not have until Christ brought us to God.

The truth is we have freely received all these things, and as the Word exhorts us, we must now add to our fait (2 Peter) and with patient endurance continue until we receive the promises.

2 Peter 1: 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins

If you would be so kind, please post 1 Peter 1:1 and 2 Peter 3.1. It may bring light on an important factor you're overlooking.

When we think that end of the gospel is to cleanse us from our sins, we stop short of the true purpose. The gospel is that God cleanses us from our past ALL sins for the purpose that we might now walk in the new nature and be as he is.

Agreed and amen.

The ground that receives the Word and produces good fruit is accepted, but the ground that receives the word and produces nothing but thorns and briers is rejected.

Who was being addressed when those warnings were given?

We have a high calling in Christ Jesus, so we must 'perfect holiness in the fear of God'. Otherwise we might as well throw out all the warnings, the exhortations, the talks of the high calling and the power of God towards us.... But we want to receive the whole counsel of God. :)

Prentis, you cannot be free of condemnation and dead to the Law before God, AND subject to potential damnation by Him at the same time. One of them has to go - you cannot have both. Pick one.

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. (Titus 2)

And in that very verse, whose job is it to see to it all that happens? Not yours. Not mine. His. We are HIS workmanship. You do not realize this but you are seeking to take burdens unto yourself which no man can shoulder, nor were we meant to...we ARE to desire it, to seek after it, to strive for it, but by His Spirit, not by our strength. It is HIS task to accomplish in us, not a level WE are to attain "or else."

I see the problem you are having musterion. You are not realizing that, saved, and chosen to inherit the KINGDOM Rule of God are two different things.
Our works of the Spirit do matter for our rewards in heaven. To believe that Jesus is the Son of God who died and was resurrected gives us a right standing with God to receive the Spirit, but we must SUBMIT for the Spirit to be able to work in us... Surely you must know believers who are just that and have not grown in the Word. Who are not worthy to be a king or priest of God?

1 Cor 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
KJV
Christ died for ALL, the living and the dead so that all could live again for he could only do it ONCE.
So all will be resurrected in the GWTJ which is the second resurrection, but most will be going to the lake of fire for their rejecting the gift of God to be salvaged by His Word and Spirit. And some will be the meek being the saved that will inherit the rest of the earth(saved nations) outside of the Bride or heavenly Jerusalem for they were not found worthy to enter in.
Heavenly Jerusalem shall come down and sit on the earth once all sin has been removed as the true body of Christ (Those of the first resurrection being martyr's and holy ones) will come soon to prepare a place for her at his return.
2 Cor 5:14-15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
KJV
Rom 14:10
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
KJV

He died for our sins Past.. but we do have repentance for any sin that we stumble in as we are learning as babes how to walk in the Word. But we should not willfully sin when we have come to the knowledge of the Truth, otherwise we will not be found worthy of inheriting the kingdom of God.

 

[FHII]

The prophet who is sent must be bold towards men, but that's because he is sent. To be bold in what God has shown us is one thing. To claim for ourselves salvation and justification is an entirely other one. As I had said 'We need to patiently endure that we might receive the promises given us, In this we need to remain humble and not claim more for ourselves.' That's my point.

Blessings! :)

Ok.... Gotcha....

 

[Prentis]

Amen faithfulone4u! Well said. :)

Paul himself feared that 'having preached to many, I myself might be a cast away.' The warnings of the unfaithful servant are so many...

Man loves to write off the warnings and find a way to make them meaningless. But this is not right: we are eradicating the fear of God. The warnings are real. The call to 'perfect holiness in the fear of God', 'add to our faith', and 'endure to the end' are real.

Being saved as through fire is not a good thing. The unfaithful servant is cast out into outer darkness. His life his saved, but he goes to shame. If we are to be part of the bride, we must obey the Word.

We have been equipped with all things pertaining to godliness, but we must put to work what we have received and submit to the Spirit.

 

[FHII]

Well, all I want to say is that I am glad that Jesus has covered my sins, and that he does not -- no, excuse me, WILL NOT -- impute sin to me whatsoever. Thanks Jesus!

 

[musterion]

Paul himself feared that 'having preached to many, I myself might be a cast away.'

From his ministry, not from Christ.

All the difference in the world there, Prentis.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
†. 1Cor 9:27 . . But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest
that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a
castaway.

The koiné Greek word for "castaway" in that verse doesn't mean discarding
someone as so much rubbish into an incinerator. It simply means worthless
and/or unapproved; as in a job not well done; but poorly done; for example:

†. 2Tim 2:15 . . Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker
who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Some folks construe rightly dividing the word of truth as a mandate to keep
the Old Testament completely separate from the New. But that's not even
close.

Paul was a blue collar worker who fabricated portable shelters for a living
(Acts 18:3). The koiné Greek word for "rightly dividing" is orthotomeo (or
thot-om-eh'-o) which means: to make a straight cut as opposed to a
crooked cut, or a cut that misses the line and yields a piece of material
that's either too long, too short, or the wrong contour; thus resulting in a
tent whose pieces won't join properly when it comes time to sew them
together. In other words: not only are the pieces are unacceptable but the
finished product is unacceptable too.

It's hard to see in the KJV, but what Paul is talking about in 1Cor 9:27 is
related to sports. For example: before any athletic event that involves
crowns, belts, medals, or trophies; serious competitors undergo rigorous
training to prepare themselves for it. If they don't get in shape; there's a
very real risk of them failing to qualify for the main event and thus losing
their opportunity for the big win. That's what Paul meant by keeping under
his body and bringing it into subjection. In other words: the secret to
success in any endeavor is discipline.

Let's say, for example, that J.Vernon McGee was the greatest preacher who
ever lived while secretly keeping a honey on the side without anybody
knowing about it. Well; that's what Paul called not playing by the rules.

†. 2Tim 2:5 . .When anyone competes as an athlete, he does not receive the
victor's crown unless he competes according to the rules.

That very thing happened to the Rev. Jesse Jackson. Will Christ award him a
victor's crown for his work as a preacher? No; it's all been for nothing.
Jackson would have been better off going to welding school instead of
divinity school. Messing around with women disqualifies Jackson. He is
completely out of the running. The same goes for Martin Luther King Jr, the
great civil rights icon. He shot himself in the preacher's foot by messing
around with a woman. And in his case, King shot himself in both feet by not
only messing around with a woman; but also by marginalizing Christ's best
interests in order to get involved in politics. Sadly, King had even been using
his pulpit to stump for civil rights.

You know, it wasn't King's religion that got him killed. It was his politics.
Had he stayed in the pulpit where he belonged; and focused on preaching
Christ instead of preaching civil rights, King might yet still be alive.

†. 2Tim 2:4-6 . . As Christ's soldier, do not let yourself become tied up in
the affairs of this life, for then you cannot satisfy the one who has enlisted
you in his army. Follow the Lord's rules for doing his work, just as an athlete
either follows the rules or is disqualified and wins no prize.

The "prize" isn't heaven. That much is certain according to John 5:24 and
Rom 8:1-2. In point of fact, there are many prizes up for grabs; but
preachers have to play by the rules if they expect to win one.

According to 1Cor 3:10-15, King can still go to heaven; but he may come
away from the judgment seat of Christ smelling like somebody who barely
escaped late at night from a burning home, taking nothing out with them but
the clothes they wore to bed.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Prentis]

From his ministry, not from Christ.

All the difference in the world there, Prentis.

That is your own personal interpretation of scripture.

ἀδόκιμος
adokimos
ad-ok'-ee-mos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.

If we let the scriptures interpret themselves, we find the same Greek word in a few places.

Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

These are not speaking of a man being received in glory yet not approved in his ministry, they speak of men wholly rejected of God. The one who is adokimos is unapproved of God, and 'nigh unto cursing, whose end is to be burned'. Paul doesn't say 'lest my ministry be castaway', he says 'lest I myself be a castaway. The meaning is clear, we only change it because it doesn't fit our doctrinal stance.

2Co 10:18 For not he that commendeth himself is approved (dokimos, without the a which is negating), but whom the Lord commendeth.

 

[musterion]

2 Cor 13:6 refutes your whole point.

Interesting, and very telling about your integrity, that you chose to leave it off your list.

If we let the scriptures interpret themselves, we find the same Greek word in a few places.

Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

All four of the passages you DID choose to cite refer to the faithless. Not to believers. That actually militates against the main point you were trying to make. If, in your haste to reply, you couldn't even see that, well...there's nothing more I can say to you, friend Prentis.

The "prize" isn't heaven. That much is certain according to John 5:24 and Rom 8:1-2. In point of fact, there are many prizes up for grabs; but preachers have to play by the rules if they expect to win one.

Exactly right. Heaven is not the prize to be won. Even if we could win it (and we couldn't) there's no need - it's already been GIVEN to us freely by grace; so much so that Paul says believers are already seated there in Christ and so should let it occupy our thoughts here on earth.

So sad that so many people here either can't see that in Christ they're already in Heaven, or for some reason just refuse to believe it. Baffling, but mostly sad.

Then again...if one believes salvation can be lost - and so MUST logically believe that it must be earned to be kept - then, eto them, Heaven would be a prize to be won. Which would mean they are truly trusting not Christ but ultimately their own works to get them there, to 'win the prize.'

Which would explain a lot around here.

 

[Prentis]

2 Cor 13:6 refutes your whole point.

Interesting, and very telling about your integrity, that you chose to leave it off your list.

Paul indicating his trust that people are indeed going to be faithful does not make other verses less true. I have shown the clear meaning of 'lest I myself be a castaway', which you have ignored. It is the same word as in those verses, rejected, reprobate. And it is 'I myself'.

All four of the passages you DID choose to cite refer to the faithless. Not to believers. That actually militates against the main point you were trying to make. If, in your haste to reply, you couldn't even see that, well...there's nothing more I can say to you, friend Prentis.

Janne and Jambres were of the Israelites in the desert, and Paul says they are an example unto US, Christians. So no, that doesn't work.

6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. (Hebrews 6 quoted in previous post)

Paul is here speaking about those who were made 'partakers of the Holy Ghost'. I posted so fast and could not 'see' that they are unbelievers as you say, because it isn't there. It is about believers. They refer to unbelievers in your mind because you are already indoctrinated. But I have demonstrated through the context that at least these two are about believers.

You've got to free your mind from the modern day Laodicean indoctrination that says 'we are rich, we have need of nothing'. Unless we bear the fruit the Bible speaks of, we are poor and destitute before him. Jesus says he would reject the Laodicean Church, so let us not be highminded and confident of our approval but let us fear lest we fall. (Paul says 'Let the one who thinks he stands fear, lest he fall') Even if we bear this fruit, we must bear it in humility.

 

[musterion]

Paul indicating his trust that people are indeed going to be faithful does not make other verses less true. I have shown the clear meaning of 'lest I myself be a castaway', which you have ignored. It is the same word as in those verses, rejected, reprobate. And it is 'I myself'.

Once again, you're ignoring the point. Paul said he was not a castaway. That's the end of your whole argument. Deal with it.

Janne and Jambres were of the Israelites in the desert, and Paul says they are an example unto US, Christians. So no, that doesn't work.

Uh...J and J were Israelites?

Okay, we're done now. So long, Prentis.

 

[Prentis]

Paul indicating his trust that people are indeed going to be faithful does not make other verses less true. I have shown the clear meaning of 'lest I myself be a castaway', which you have ignored. It is the same word as in those verses, rejected, reprobate. And it is 'I myself'.

Once again, you're ignoring the point. Paul said he was not a castaway. That's the end of your whole argument. Deal with it.

Janne and Jambres were of the Israelites in the desert, and Paul says they are an example unto US, Christians. So no, that doesn't work.

Uh...J and J were Israelites?

Okay, we're done now. So long, Prentis.

So Paul affirming that he is as of now not a castaway makes his previous statement of being careful lest he be one meaningless? One of Paul's statements makes the other meaningless and empty, and false? Is Paul bipolar? ;)

If our interpretation of one verse makes the other verse false in our own interpretation, we cannot just discard that verse, but we must find where the reconciliation is.

If Paul is working miracles and walking in the power and life of the Gospel, he knows then that as of now he is not a reprobate. He bears the witness in him and upon him that he is a son of God, doing the works of the Father. Why then would he buffet his body, and pay close attention lest he be castaway?

Because a race is not won before it is over. One can be a faithful servant for many days, but fall away in the end. Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

God has no pleasure in the soul that draws back. Paul said also that he did not even judge himself. Was Paul also there being bipolar, once declaring himself eternally saved, and once still awaiting the final judgment? Or could it be that all scriptures are true and in harmony, and Paul spoke of his current state, saying 'we are not reprobates'?

Could the one who warned those who stand to 'fear, lest you fall', not himself fear, though he is standing?

So many warnings are pointed to the believer... How can we honestly use the promises to discard the warnings and say 'they are not for me'? We must be careful of this.

 

[John Zain]

But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord,
are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory,
just as by the Spirit of the Lord. (2 Cor. 3:18)

Prentis ... IYO, does this apply for all BACs,
or only for the ones who choose to co-operate with the Holy Spirit
during their sanctification-unto-holiness process?

 

[Prentis]

But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord,
are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory,
just as by the Spirit of the Lord. (2 Cor. 3:18)

Prentis ... IYO, does this apply for all BACs,
or only for the ones who choose to co-operate with the Holy Spirit
during their sanctification-unto-holiness process?

It is true for those who seek honestly with all their hearts, open before him.

It is easy for men to declare a love for God, to declare they want to please us. But this confession must be followed with the appropriate walk. We are to present ourselves daily as a living sacrifice to God. If we do this, he transforms our lives, if we do not, he does not force our hand.

It is up to us if we will serve God and die daily, that we might do the will of the Father and not our own. Do we see the fruits of such a life?

Many who claim the new birth do not even believe in this transforming power. But this is the fruit that testifies to new life in Christ Jesus. We must enter the gate and walk the narrow way.