The answer of hell and its origins

[St. SteVen]

Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell. The really sad part is that they lead their loved ones to Hell with them.

Wow. That's ridiculous.

Christian: "You're going to hell!"
Atheist: "I don't believe in hell."
Christian: "That's why you are going there."
Atheist: "Say what?"
Christian: "You and your loved ones!"
Atheist: "If there is a hell, this is it. Goodbye."

 

[St. SteVen]

You're playing word games that won't hold up on Judgment Day. "Hell fire", "everlasting fire", "forever and ever" are Bible.

Word games? Good idea. See if you can beat this one. Good luck.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.

All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.

Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)

 

[Jack]

well, surely Jesus was aware of them, so my guess would be that a literary style is being taken too literally

You don't even believe that Christian salvation is "literal"?

Wow. That's ridiculous.

Christian: "You're going to hell!"

Well yeah, that's what Jesus said. Have you read the NT?

Atheist: "I don't believe in hell."
Christian: "That's why you are going there."

That's YOUR fairy tale. Not mine.

Atheist: "Say what?"
Christian: "You and your loved ones!"
Atheist: "If there is a hell, this is it. Goodbye."

Have you read the NT where Jesus said that unbelievers will burn in Hell Fire "forever and ever"?

 

[Jack]

Word games? Good idea. See if you can beat this one. Good luck.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.

All of our Bibles are wrong? You lose!!!

 

[St. SteVen]

Questions from the OP. Great questions, thanks.

Is the idea of eternal torture in keeping with a Merciful God?

No. Not in the least. Ten seconds would be enough to get the message.

If gave someone ten seconds and then asked them if they would prefer to repent or return there forever...
what do we suppose the vast majority would say in response? Save me, or burn me?

If so, what is the purpose of torturing people indefinitely?

Any rational being would have to conclude that this is the most sadistic thing imaginable.
Unless this supposed hell (as described) does exist, it is part of God's creation.
And therefore is carefully and thoughtfully designed, like everything else.

It sickens me to think that God is being blamed for such a thing.
But no one talks about it. Preferring rather to blame the victims who "sent themselves there."

What does God get from this?

An eternal headache? Pain in the rear? Eternal annoyance? He's omnipresent, right?
There would be no escape for Him either. Why would he do that to himself? He's omniscient, right?

And what about those of us with loved ones there? (assuming)
What would this mean for us? Knowing that souls were being incinerated in the basement for eternity.
And what does this say about God? Do I dare say?

Also, how can an immortal soul be burned?

To be clear, I do believe there will be fire. (for everyone) Jesus said:
"Everyone will be salted with fire." - Mark 9:49 NIV

However, this fire is purifying, refining, corrective, and restorative.

I like this description.

Malachi 3:2
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears?
For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

 

[St. SteVen]

All of our Bibles are wrong? You lose!!!

Probably a bad idea to make a god out of a book.
Is this in your Bible?

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

 

[bbyrd009]

Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell. The really sad part is that they lead their loved ones to Hell with them.

well Jack, you can believe that if you like, you can state it as an Absolute Truth, but you cannot really Quote that, and being as how it almost surely is not true, you might leave a little room for Yah having a better idea, imo.

you might contemplate how much you need for there to be a hel, so that you might ascend to heaven and become an immortal after death...
just a suggestion

 

[bbyrd009]

You don't even believe that Christian salvation is "literal"?

salvation from what, Jack? Can you Quote that one, single time?
so its funny you ask me if i believe salvation is literal or not, since mine is about herenow, and easily demonstrated
yes, i believe it is more literal than your concept of salvation, with all due respect
and i wish you the best of luck in your walk ok

 

[St. SteVen]

That's YOUR fairy tale. Not mine.

The parody was based completely on your post.
My fairy tale? - LOL

Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell. The really sad part is that they lead their loved ones to Hell with them.

Wow. That's ridiculous.

Christian: "You're going to hell!"
Atheist: "I don't believe in hell."
Christian: "That's why you are going there."
Atheist: "Say what?"
Christian: "You and your loved ones!"
Atheist: "If there is a hell, this is it. Goodbye."

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:

Wow. That's ridiculous.

Christian: "You're going to hell!"

Well yeah, that's what Jesus said. Have you read the NT?

I don't recall that quote. Chapter and verse, please. Thanks.

 

[St. SteVen]

... i wish you the best of luck in your walk ok

For some... a walk is more like a sit. - LOL

Paris is so beautiful. I read about it in a travel brochure.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Wait a minute, other JWs have told me that as one of the 144,000 Paul didn’t have to wait. Which is it? Did he have the “Heavenly Hope “?

A genuine Jehovah's Witness wouldn't speak against scripture. So the person who told you that, wasn't a Jehovah's Witness, or not a loyal one at least. In scripture Paul was inspired to say at 1 Thessalonians 4:15, 16 "For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first." Paul wasn't saying he would go to heaven before the second presence of Jesus Christ. He said that those who are dead in union with Christ would rise first. You can believe all you want that Paul wasn't dead and in union with Christ but Paul did die and he died in union with Christ, so just as the scriptures show, those who died in union with Christ, will rise first during the second presence of Jesus Christ.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Nice Kingdom Hall smoke screen! Why don't you quote one Scripture at a time? You're not qualified to rewrite our Bible.

Again all you can do is insult when someone reasons on the scriptures and shows you're in error.

 

[RLT63]

A genuine Jehovah's Witness wouldn't speak against scripture. So the person who told you that, wasn't a Jehovah's Witness, or not a loyal one at least. In scripture Paul was inspired to say at 1 Thessalonians 4:15, 16 "For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first." Paul wasn't saying he would go to heaven before the second presence of Jesus Christ. He said that those who are dead in union with Christ would rise first. You can believe all you want that Paul wasn't dead and in union with Christ but Paul did die and he died in union with Christ, so just as the scriptures show, those who died in union with Christ, will rise first during the second presence of Jesus Christ.

Phl 1:21 - For to me to live-is Christ, and to die is gain.

Phl 1:22 - But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

Phl 1:23 - For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: @Aunty Jane didn’t you tell me Paul wrote this because he had the heavenly hope?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Phl 1:21 - For to me to live-is Christ, and to die is gain.

Phl 1:22 - But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

Phl 1:23 - For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: @Aunty Jane didn’t you tell me Paul wrote this because he had the heavenly hope?

All Aunty Jane said was that Paul had a heavenly hope, which is true, she didn't say that Paul when he died went to heaven that very day. She didn't say that Paul was resurrected before the second presence of Jesus Christ.

It seems to me when you quote Philippians 1:21-23 you're trying to take these scriptures and trying to make them contradict other scriptures but one Scripture or scriptures doesn't contradict others.

Paul explained at 1 Corinthians 15:23, “those who belong to the Christ” would be resurrected to heavenly life “during Christ’s second presence.” So Paul is here expressing his desire to finish his earthly course faithfully so that he could later be resurrected to heavenly life. 1 Corinthians 15:23 is very clear, you want to deny it, or contradict it, that's on you. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 and 1 Corinthians 15:23 agree with one another, they don't contradict one another. So anyone who tries to use Philippians 1:21-23 to contradict 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 and 1 Corinthians 15:23, I'm not going to agree with them.

 

[RLT63]

All Aunty Jane said was that Paul had a heavenly hope, which is true, she didn't say that Paul when he died went to heaven that very day. She didn't say that Paul was resurrected before the second presence of Jesus Christ.

It seems to me when you quote Philippians 1:21-23 you're trying to take these scriptures and trying to make them contradict other scriptures but one Scripture or scriptures doesn't contradict others.

Paul explained at 1 Corinthians 15:23, “those who belong to the Christ” would be resurrected to heavenly life “during Christ’s second presence.” So Paul is here expressing his desire to finish his earthly course faithfully so that he could later be resurrected to heavenly life. 1 Corinthians 15:23 is very clear, you want to deny it, or contradict it, that's on you. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 and 1 Corinthians 15:23 agree with one another, they don't contradict one another. So anyone who tries to use Philippians 1:21-23 to contradict 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 and 1 Corinthians 15:23, I'm not going to agree with them.

I doubt you saw my conversation with @Aunty Jane but about the scripture you quoted 1Th 4:17 - Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.- Why do those who are alive meet the Lord in the air if they are going to live on the earth?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I doubt you saw my conversation with @Aunty Jane but about the scripture you quoted 1Th 4:17 - Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.- Why do those who are alive meet the Lord in the air if they are going to live on the earth?

To comfort first-century Christians who were bereaved of “those who have fallen asleep in death through Christ,” the apostle Paul wrote:

We the living [those of the heavenly calling] who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those [of the heavenly calling] who have fallen asleep in death; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ [of the heavenly calling] will rise first. Afterward we the living [of the heavenly calling] who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with the Lord.” 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

So Paul is saying that at the time the second presence of Jesus Christ begins there will be humans of the heavenly calling living on earth. First those of the heavenly calling who have died and have been sleeping in death for thousands of years are resurrected from the dead first. Then those of the heavenly calling who are alive on earth when the second presence of Jesus Christ begins, at the time of each of their deaths, at the moment of death are changed in a twinkling of an eye, then caught up to be with Jesus Christ.

The reason these who are alive on earth are changed in the twinkling of an eye at death instead of sleeping in death as those who were resurrected first did for thousands of years is because these humans who are alive on earth who are of the heavenly calling are living during the second presence of Jesus Christ, they don't have to wait for the second presence of Jesus Christ to begin to be resurrected, since they are already living in the second presence of Jesus Christ.

 

[RLT63]

To comfort first-century Christians who were bereaved of “those who have fallen asleep in death through Christ,” the apostle Paul wrote:

We the living [those of the heavenly calling] who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those [of the heavenly calling] who have fallen asleep in death; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ [of the heavenly calling] will rise first. Afterward we the living [of the heavenly calling] who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with the Lord.” 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

So Paul is saying that at the time the second presence of Jesus Christ begins there will be humans of the heavenly calling living on earth. First those of the heavenly calling who have died and have been sleeping in death for thousands of years are resurrected from the dead first. Then those of the heavenly calling who are alive on earth when the second presence of Jesus Christ begins, at the time of each of their deaths, at the moment of death are changed in a twinkling of an eye, then caught up to be with Jesus Christ.

The reason these who are alive on earth are changed in the twinkling of an eye at death instead of sleeping in death as those who were resurrected first did for thousands of years is because these humans who are alive on earth who are of the heavenly calling are living during the second presence of Jesus Christ, they don't have to wait for the second presence of Jesus Christ to begin to be resurrected, since they are already living in the second presence of Jesus Christ.

That is what JWs believe. It will do no good to argue with you that is what you have accepted.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

That is what JWs believe. It will do no good to argue with you that is what you have accepted.

Yes I accept the truth not what men say I must believe. Like I said Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:23 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 that he and others of the heavenly calling would be resurrected when the second presence of Jesus Christ began.

 

[bbyrd009]

Atheist: "If there is a hell, this is it. Goodbye."

Matthew 5:22 Lexicon: "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' sha

i mean, just call someone a fool and see, if you dont believe it eh