The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

The Lamb of God
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Really means all people who believe from every nation, not just the Jewish nation, but non Jewish people in the gentile nations in the world will be saved by believing in Christ.
So yeah still the world of believers get saved having their sins taken away, and ONLY them.

Jesus Died for Judas

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

More talk no proof. Next time you make a statement about scripture trying proving it from scripture.

Jesus Died for Judas

 

[TahitiRun]

Jesus Died for Judas

Yes, He did. Jesus was sent to save lost souls, of which Judas was.

Joh 17:12 While I was with them, I kept them in thy name, which thou hast given me; I have guarded them, and none of them is lost but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled.

However, Judas will be saved (according to the spirit, not the flesh) in the age of judgment:

Luk 19:10 for the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.'

Php 2:10 that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Php 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

In the age of judgment, when Judas sees the risen Christ, he will confess that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. And Judas will do so exactly as scripture testifies.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Yes, He did. Jesus was sent to save lost souls, of which Judas was.

Joh 17:12 While I was with them, I kept them in thy name, which thou hast given me; I have guarded them, and none of them is lost but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled.

However, Judas will be saved (according to the spirit, not the flesh) in the age of judgment:

Luk 19:10 for the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.'

Php 2:10 that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Php 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

In the age of judgment, when Judas sees the risen Christ, he will confess that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. And Judas will do so exactly as scripture testifies.

Judas can never be saved as he is in hell

Acts 1:25
[25]to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place."

 

[TahitiRun]

Judas can never be saved as he is in hell

Acts 1:25
[25]to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place."

The phrase "his own place" is the earth from which all are formed (Gen 2:7)

Job 34:15 all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust.

Ecc 3:20 All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Ecc 12:5 they are afraid also of what is high, and terrors are in the way; the almond tree blossoms, the grasshopper drags itself along and desire fails; because man goes to his eternal home, and the mourners go about the streets;
Ecc 12:6 before the silver cord is snapped, or the golden bowl is broken, or the pitcher is broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern,
Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

The phrase "his own place" is the earth from which all are formed (Gen 2:7)

Job 34:15 all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust.

Ecc 3:20 All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Ecc 12:6 before the silver cord is snapped, or the golden bowl is broken, or the pitcher is broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern,
Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

This is about Judas

John 17:12
[12]While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled .

 

[TahitiRun]

Yes, it's about Judas. That's the scripture I also quoted in post #83 for context.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Yes, it's about Judas. That's the scripture I also quoted in post #83 for context.

Jesus says that Judas is not in heaven

 

[TahitiRun]

This is about Judas

John 17:12
[12]While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled .

Please excuse my previous post, I'm new here and learning the "reply" methods. But yes, that was the scripture I was also referencing. Judas was the son of perdition, called "lost" by Jesus. And that is specifically for whom Christ died. "To seek and to save the lost" (Luk 19:10)

 

[TahitiRun]

Jesus says that Judas is not in heaven

Who said Judas "was in heaven"? I specifically gave scriptures that testify where Judas is. Pertaining to both his flesh and spirit.

 

[TahitiRun]

I wasnt talking about the Gospel, but the atoning death of Christ, please pay attention !

The atoning death of Christ is the Gospel:

1Co 15:1 Now I would remind you, brethren, in what terms I preached to you the gospel, which you received, in which you stand,
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures,

I'll tell you what: I'll promise to pay attention if you promise to read the scriptures and not make stuff up.

 

[TahitiRun]

Judas can never be saved....

LOL...
Mat 19:25 When the disciples heard this they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?"
Mat 19:26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

It's hard to believe I'm on a "Christian" forum....

 

[brightfame52]

John Calvin

That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life”

Once again, Next time you make a statement about scripture trying proving it from scripture.

 

[TahitiRun]

The Atonement of Christ has reconciled the elect world to God. It secured and ensured for it [ the elect world] every spiritual blessing needed to live unto God and for His Glory through Jesus Christ.

Nowhere does scripture limit reconciliation to only an "elect world". Here are the scriptures regarding the reconciliation that Christ achieved using the terms "world" and "all things", by God in Christ to Himself:

Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

2Co 5:19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling a world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

I promised to pay attention, and you have to promise not to continually make things up. Ok?

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Once again, Next time you make a statement about scripture trying proving it from scripture.

God SO LOVES The Entire Human Race

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

LOL...
Mat 19:25 When the disciples heard this they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?"
Mat 19:26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

It's hard to believe I'm on a "Christian" forum....

Jesus says that Judas is the son of Perdition (John 17:12). Do you know what this means?

 

[TahitiRun]

Jesus says that Judas is the son of Perdition (John 17:12). Do you know what this means?

Yes.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Yes.

can you expalin?

 

[TahitiRun]

God SO LOVES The Entire Human Race

Yes, God does love the entire human race, however, He does not love us according to our flesh, but rather spirit.

There is nothing good in the flesh to be loved (Rom 7:18)
The flesh profits nothing (Joh 6:63)
The flesh is death (Rom 8:6)
Etc., etc.

Simply do a word study of the terms "flesh", "natural man", "carnal man", "old man", etc. All of these terms describe the soul according to the flesh. God does not love the flesh, and had it crucified with Christ on the cross (Rom 6:6).

 

[TahitiRun]

can you expalin?

Yes, the term "perdition" (Gk: ἀπώλεια) is a noun derived from the Greek term ἀπόλλυμι having a meaning of destroyed fully, complete ruin and total destruction.

It's the same term used by Jesus in Luk 19:10, the "lost" sheep of Israel (Mat 15:24), etc., of which we're told He came to seek and to save the "ἀπόλλυμι". The term ἀπόλλυμι is being used with reference to the flesh that is (or will be) destroyed fully to the saving of the spirit (a similar example of this found in 1Co 5:5), rather than destroying the spirit of Judas, the spirit of Judas being the breath of God, the candle of the Lord, that part of Judas' soul made in the image of God.

God does not destroy His own image and breath.