The Authority of Man

[theefaith]

I was going to make mention of the hierarchy of the family unit.
Father/Mother/Child as a type.
But I'm even having trouble finding that in today's society.

I have come to believe that when a child grows up and steps out on their own,
Then the Lord steps in as Father of that child.

It is up to the parents to lay that foundation though:
Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

There are father's and then there is The Father:

1Jo 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
1Jo 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

I don't see any authority over the household coming from any other than the parents and God himself.
It is man who wants to rule over other men. It makes them feel superior, powerful, dominant.

Personally, I just follow the Lord and the Good Book.
Hugs

good but God also established authority in the civil government and the holy church

 

[Ziggy]

good but God also established authority in the civil government and the holy church

Then that's where you should be.. right?
If that's where God has led YOU, then GO there.
He hasn't led me THERE, He led me HERE.

And HERE, God is the ONLY authority (besides the Admin and the mods)
But they don't set themselves ABOVE us. They serve us by preparing a place for us to worship in.
Now YOU can always GO and serve the civil governments and the Worldly church.
But I pray the Lord let's me STAY HERE, where HE planted ME.

Hugs

 

[theefaith]

Then that's where you should be.. right?
If that's where God has led YOU, then GO there.
He hasn't led me THERE, He led me HERE.

And HERE, God is the ONLY authority (besides the Admin and the mods)
But they don't set themselves ABOVE us. They serve us by preparing a place for us to worship in.
Now YOU can always GO and serve the civil governments and the Worldly church.
But I pray the Lord let's me STAY HERE, where HE planted ME.

Hugs

I understand

no one is above us all are one in Christ
Only we have different roles like mother and father

but we must be in the new covenant church for salvation
And obey our superiors
As scripture says

 

[amigo de christo]

I understand

no one is above us all are one in Christ
Only we have different roles like mother and father

but we must be in the new covenant church for salvation
And obey our superiors
As scripture says

As i said my friend you are truly a solider of the RCC . And by new covenant church , ya mean the RCC .
Well , all i can say is praise be to GOD that he kept me far from that direction . I will continue to pray for you my friend .

 

[Ziggy]

I understand

no one is above us all are one in Christ
Only we have different roles like mother and father

but we must be in the new covenant church for salvation
And obey our superiors
As scripture says

In the OT, right after a heavy battle among kings,
Melchizadek showed up and brought Abraham bread and wine.
Melchizedek is/was the Lord's High Priest.
And Abraham paid tithes to him.
Tithes in those days was sheep and cattle, grains and fruits.
It was the increase or profit from their labours.

Today Jesus is Melchizedek. He is our High Priest that we go to and give our tithes,
our fruits of the spirit, the seeds we have sown and their increase, the children we bare and lead them to Him.
Even our enemies we offer to him in our prayers so that he may bless or chastise whichever way seems right in His eyes.

Knowing this then,
That God is Our Father and Jesus Christ is our High Priest that we make offerings to,
What need is there for a civil/worldly heirarchy of leaders over the sheep?
It is Jesus that is the Shepherd, He is the keeper of our souls.
He is the one we pray to and confess our sins to.
He provides us with whatever we need and whatever we ask in good faith.

What can man give us, that God hasn't already provided?

Hugs

 

[theefaith]

In the OT, right after a heavy battle among kings,
Melchizadek showed up and brought Abraham bread and wine.
Melchizedek is/was the Lord's High Priest.
And Abraham paid tithes to him.
Tithes in those days was sheep and cattle, grains and fruits.
It was the increase or profit from their labours.

Today Jesus is Melchizedek. He is our High Priest that we go to and give our tithes,
our fruits of the spirit, the seeds we have sown and their increase, the children we bare and lead them to Him.
Even our enemies we offer to him in our prayers so that he may bless or chastise whichever way seems right in His eyes.

Knowing this then,
That God is Our Father and Jesus Christ is our High Priest that we make offerings to,
What need is there for a civil/worldly heirarchy of leaders over the sheep?
It is Jesus that is the Shepherd, He is the keeper of our souls.
He is the one we pray to and confess our sins to.
He provides us with whatever we need and whatever we ask in good faith.

What can man give us, that God hasn't already provided?

Hugs

so who are the low priests?

 

[DPMartin]

I was having a conversation with the Lord about authority and discussed about a church pastor who tried to tell me to come under his authority, and how I gave the puffed up peacock the bum's rush. A verse of Scripture came to me:
"You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men" (1 Corinthians 7:23)

What this means that we have only one master - Christ. This is not to say that we have mentors who give us sound discipleship and confirm our faith in Christ. But the attitude of these ones is "Be followers of me as I am of Christ" (1 Corinthians 11:1). The good discipler shows an example of following Christ, and instead of forcing his own authority on his disciple, he points to the only Master of believers. Jesus Christ Himself.

The bottom line is this:
"No one can serve two masters: Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other" (Matthew 6:24).
I know that Jesus referred to having money as a master instead of God, but the principle is still the same, we cannot have Christ as our Master, and be under the authority of a man or group of men as masters.

If we put ourselves under the authority of men, we are no longer under the lordship of Christ. He is no longer our Master, the man or group of men are our masters instead. It means that as soon as we place ourselves under man's authority, we are no longer following Christ. We are rejecting Christ in favour of men, putting ourselves in a very serious situation concerning whether we are really committed to Christ or not.

This shows the the corruption of the Shepherding Movement, where "disciplers" and "shepherds" exerted their own authority on believers, causing immeasurable harm.

An example was in a New Zealand small town where there was a Pentecostal church. A group of people wanted to plant their own church, and the leader went, out of respect to the pastor of the existing church to inform him that a new Pentecostal church group was being planted and that they could work together in harmony. The pastor said, "This is my town, and I'm going to make sure that your church never gets off the ground". In six months, that Pentecostal church folded, and the pastor was out of the ministry, while the new church grew and flourished. This is an example where a pastor was setting up his own authority and not following Christ. The consequence was that the Holy Spirit took his ministry away from him and probably got into heaven by the skin of his teeth. The tragedy is that by asserting his own authority, he was deceiving his people and getting in between them and Christ.

Eph_6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
1Ti_6:1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.
1Ti_6:2 And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
Tit_2:9 Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;


so your idea of one should not have a master, is in error according to scripture. heck if you work for a living then your boss can tell you what to do, or you can look for another job seeing you agreed to do accordingly.


but many of these authorities of church organizations assume they are your master, actually try to convince you to do for them for free what they would not do themselves for nothing, of which they are out of bounds on that.

 

[Ziggy]

I don't believe there were any before Moses.

When Jethro, Moses's father-in-law meets him out in the wilderness, he coaches Moses as to how to form this new people.
There are mostly judges put in place to keep the law.
Aaron, Moses's brother was placed as the High Priest at that time and his sons to oversee the tabernacle in which God resided, and the body of believers who would come and make offerings daily to the temple.

Now I have a small issue with this because there is a passage in Isaiah:

Isa 1:10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
Isa 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
Isa 1:12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

The question is "who hath required all these sacrifices" ?
He is speaking to the "rulers of Sodom and the people of Gomorrah"
And yet we know that it is symbolic because Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed a long long time before Isaiah.
So who is the Lord speaking to? And who required them to tread his courts?

I believe most of the Priests throughout the Bible served the King and not so much the people.
They were like the Seers and the Prophets.

When we get to Jerusalem in the NT, there is a whole New World Order.
Only the High Priests and Pharisees and Saducees are placed in roles of authority over the people by Rome.
These are not people God placed there. Those they killed like Zacharias between the altar and the court.
They invaded the capital so to speak. They took it over and ran it according to their own understanding.

When Jesus came on the scene, he was explaining to them and to the people, exactly what God required of them.
Now the Apostles and Disciples had no Priests or Lawyers ruling them, because they brought themselves under the authority of
God himself through Jesus Christ our High Priest.

It wasn't until people were being scattered about throughout Asia and forming churches in their homes, that certain people from the churches were placed to oversee and feed the flock. People brought their tithes and increases and shared everything among themselves.
They reached out to the poor and the hungry, the sick and the elderly and they all prospered even in evil times.

The Church that assumes authority over the flock today is not the same as the one in the book of Acts.
This Church was founded on Roman festivals and their rules mixed with a bit of Judaism to attract more people.
When they got tired of people following Judaism, which contained God's laws and His Holy Days,
They removed them. And placed instead their own dieties that they choose to worship.

Another New World Order. Not based on God as they proclaimed but based on falliable man.

 

[amadeus]

In the OT, right after a heavy battle among kings,
Melchizadek showed up and brought Abraham bread and wine.
Melchizedek is/was the Lord's High Priest.
And Abraham paid tithes to him.
Tithes in those days was sheep and cattle, grains and fruits.
It was the increase or profit from their labours.

Today Jesus is Melchizedek. He is our High Priest that we go to and give our tithes,
our fruits of the spirit, the seeds we have sown and their increase, the children we bare and lead them to Him.
Even our enemies we offer to him in our prayers so that he may bless or chastise whichever way seems right in His eyes.

Knowing this then,
That God is Our Father and Jesus Christ is our High Priest that we make offerings to,
What need is there for a civil/worldly heirarchy of leaders over the sheep?
It is Jesus that is the Shepherd, He is the keeper of our souls.
He is the one we pray to and confess our sins to.
He provides us with whatever we need and whatever we ask in good faith.

What can man give us, that God hasn't already provided?

Hugs

Indeed and what can man give us that did not originally come from God?

"But who am I, and what is my people, that we should be able to offer so willingly after this sort? for all things come of thee, and of thine own have we given thee." I Chron 29:14

 

[theefaith]

Eph_6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
1Ti_6:1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.
1Ti_6:2 And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
Tit_2:9 Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;


so your idea of one should not have a master, is in error according to scripture. heck if you work for a living then your boss can tell you what to do, or you can look for another job seeing you agreed to do accordingly.


but many of these authorities of church organizations assume they are your master, actually try to convince you to do for them for free what they would not do themselves for nothing, of which they are out of bounds on that.

but peter the apostles and their successors have real authority from Christ


Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

 

[DPMartin]

but peter the apostles and their successors have real authority from Christ


Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

feeding the sheep and administering the ins and outs of organizational necessities has nothing to do with the assumption that members of a church organization are subordinates to the wants of a priest or preacher.

if one volunteers or one agrees to contribute ones time then its according to what is a greed, or if one is being paid to do a job for the church then the obvious applies.


and nothing you've posted justifies what the OP has described. the scriptural refences are to those in the ministerial work, such as feed the sheep. no instruction there to make the sheep do what you want, is there?

 

[amadeus]

I don't believe there were any before Moses.

When Jethro, Moses's father-in-law meets him out in the wilderness, he coaches Moses as to how to form this new people.
There are mostly judges put in place to keep the law.
Aaron, Moses's brother was placed as the High Priest at that time and his sons to oversee the tabernacle in which God resided, and the body of believers who would come and make offerings daily to the temple.

Now I have a small issue with this because there is a passage in Isaiah:

Isa 1:10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
Isa 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
Isa 1:12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

The question is "who hath required all these sacrifices" ?
He is speaking to the "rulers of Sodom and the people of Gomorrah"
And yet we know that it is symbolic because Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed a long long time before Isaiah.
So who is the Lord speaking to? And who required them to tread his courts?

I believe most of the Priests throughout the Bible served the King and not so much the people.
They were like the Seers and the Prophets.

When we get to Jerusalem in the NT, there is a whole New World Order.
Only the High Priests and Pharisees and Saducees are placed in roles of authority over the people by Rome.
These are not people God placed there. Those they killed like Zacharias between the altar and the court.
They invaded the capital so to speak. They took it over and ran it according to their own understanding.

When Jesus came on the scene, he was explaining to them and to the people, exactly what God required of them.
Now the Apostles and Disciples had no Priests or Lawyers ruling them, because they brought themselves under the authority of
God himself through Jesus Christ our High Priest.

It wasn't until people were being scattered about throughout Asia and forming churches in their homes, that certain people from the churches were placed to oversee and feed the flock. People brought their tithes and increases and shared everything among themselves.
They reached out to the poor and the hungry, the sick and the elderly and they all prospered even in evil times.

The Church that assumes authority over the flock today is not the same as the one in the book of Acts.
This Church was founded on Roman festivals and their rules mixed with a bit of Judaism to attract more people.
When they got tired of people following Judaism, which contained God's laws and His Holy Days,
They removed them. And placed instead their own dieties that they choose to worship.

Another New World Order. Not based on God as they proclaimed but based on falliable man.

In the OT we read of the types and shadows, the temporary things to point out what was to come, from school master to Reality! Even in the NT, we are still involved in too many types and shadows and not many people even want to move to the Reality God has in place. "What is it"? They mostly still do not know at all.

This is not so only with those yet in formal Catholicism also among the Protestants. What is the Reality God has for whosoever will? As I see it, it is not to be found in more type and shadows like crackers and grape juice nor in wafers and wine.

In the OT the priest made daily temporary offerings of slain 'lower' animals and then once a year the high priest [Aaronic] entered into the holy of holies. Then cometh the Reality, no more temporary types and shadows are needed...

"Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself." Heb 7:27

Still looking for tomorrow when now, today, is the time! What is anyone doing today? Again and again, What is it?

 

[Ziggy]

Still looking for tomorrow when now, today, is the time! What is anyone doing today? Again and again, What is it?

If we could only be like Abraham and see the promise afar off.
Only if we could realize that day is To Day.
But we are still blinded. There is too much thickness.
Aren't we supposed to be living as if we already have recieved?
Are we living in the Kingdom or still living of the world?

Lord open our eyes so we can see!
Hugs

 

[amadeus]

If we could only be like Abraham and see the promise afar off.
Only if we could realize that day is To Day.
But we are still blinded. There is too much thickness.
Aren't we supposed to be living as if we already have recieved?
Are we living in the Kingdom or still living of the world?

Lord open our eyes so we can see!
Hugs

Too many people still following leaders and too many of the leaders are blind leading their following into a ditch. Especially people in the Lord with primarily a diet of milk cannot understand. They are not lost, but also they understand very little. God understand its all, which is why walking really by faith is so important, but people depend on in depth logical Bible studies using what they name, hermeneutics instead getting hold of the Holy Spirit to lead and guide them.

The "eyes to see", the eyesalve needed is the Holy Spirit.

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Rom 8:1

How does one get the place of always walking after the Spirit?

The problem I see commonly is in churches and ministers teaching people to quench the Holy Spirit of God...

 

[Stumpmaster]

What about them?

John the Baptist and Jesus clashed with Pharisees and Sadducees because they dominated, intimidated, manipulated, and seduced the people they had authority over. This sort of abuse of authority comes from man, not God.

Mat 3:7-8 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for his baptism, he said to them, “You offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? (8) Therefore produce fruit worthy of repentance!


Mat 23:1-4 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, (2) saying, “The scribes and the Pharisees sat on Moses’ seat. (3) All things therefore whatever they tell you to observe, observe and do, but don’t do their works; for they say, and don’t do. (4) For they bind heavy burdens that are grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not lift a finger to help them.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Eph_6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
1Ti_6:1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.
1Ti_6:2 And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
Tit_2:9 Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;


so your idea of one should not have a master, is in error according to scripture. heck if you work for a living then your boss can tell you what to do, or you can look for another job seeing you agreed to do accordingly.


but many of these authorities of church organizations assume they are your master, actually try to convince you to do for them for free what they would not do themselves for nothing, of which they are out of bounds on that.

I assume that you have not read my other posts where I have made the comparison between following a mentor as they follow Christ, and rejecting someone who is an authoritarian spiritual bully.

 

[Ziggy]

Master/masters

Jhn 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
Jhn 13:14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.

Jhn 13:6 Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?
Jhn 13:7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.

Col 4:1 Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.

Washing each others feet and being just and equal.

Makes me think about everyone stepping on everyone's heads to get to the top of the corporate ladder.
Only in this case, who will be placed higher in a church or administration.

Preeminence is the word that comes to mind:

Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

3Jo 1:9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.

We're talking about slaves obeying their masters. Jesus is the Preeminent Master of All.
Everyone who serves him aught to treat everyone justly and equally.
But there are some who place themselves preeminently above others.
And if they make themselves Lord and Master, then they are not washing everyone's feet the same.
In fact, they require their own feet washed first.

I went to a church once, a long time ago. After the service the Pastor was standing to the side and I went to ask him a question.
I don't remember the question, but I remember being brushed aside as if my question had no merit.
Being young in the faith, perhaps it was a childish question.. I don't remember.
But I do remember just having my question dismissed with a toss of the hand.
I never went back to that church.

How many people in Jesus's day had to make an appointment to see him?
They came from all around. Different people, different nationalities, even the Roman soldiers (centurion) didn't need an appointment to speak or ask questions, or ask for healing.
Today, you want to talk to a Pastor you need an appointment. And if you call for an appointment you get put on hold.
Dial one for english. Please hold. Leave a message. He/She can't see you right now...

It's become a business where those that contribute the most or have the most influence are heard above the others.
It's not supposed to be that way.
Now there could be good Pastors and good churches where everyone gets treated the same.

But you need a SPECIAL appointment and you need to BE SOMEBODY to see the Pope.
You can't just walk up and say Master, what is this or what does that mean.
You don't ask questions. The edict flows downhill. You just do as your told.

Jesus did something new:
Jhn 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Which made me think of Judas.. Jesus called him Friend. Because Judas knew the plan.
Jesus washed Judas' feet the same as the others. They all had a mission to perform and Jesus treated them all equal.
off topic..

thinking..

 

[Ziggy]

3Jo 1:9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.

How is it that Diotrephes who appears to be a leader of the church will not even hear the ones building the foundation of it?

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Diotrephes was a man mentioned in the Third Epistle of John (verses 9–11). His name means "nourished by Jupiter". As Raymond E. Brown comments, "Diotrephes is not a particularly common name."

In addition to being ambitious, proud, disrespectful of apostolic authority, rebellious, and inhospitable, the author of the letter says that Diotrephes tried to hinder those desiring to show hospitality to the brothers and to expel these from the congregation. Not even the location of Diotrephes' church can be determined from the letter. It is debatable whether the antipathy expressed in 3 John is based on "a theological dispute, a clash of competing ecclesiastical authorities, a disagreement about financial responsibilities for the mission, or personal dislike".

Adolf von Harnack was of the view that Diotrephes was the earliest monarchical bishop whose name has survived.

That reminds me of the church of:
Rev 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
Rev 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

How many churches today are run by Diotrephes figures?

So should we obey these masters who do not obey The Master?
I guess that's my question.

Hugs

 

[DPMartin]

I assume that you have not read my other posts where I have made the comparison between following a mentor as they follow Christ, and rejecting someone who is an authoritarian spiritual bully.

authoritarian spiritual bully? really? by your wording you follow media. there is no such thing as "spiritual bully" besides, this isn't high school here.

 

[Mungo]

John the Baptist and Jesus clashed with Pharisees and Sadducees because they dominated, intimidated, manipulated, and seduced the people they had authority over. This sort of abuse of authority comes from man, not God.

Mat 3:7-8 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for his baptism, he said to them, “You offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? (8) Therefore produce fruit worthy of repentance!


Mat 23:1-4 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, (2) saying, “The scribes and the Pharisees sat on Moses’ seat. (3) All things therefore whatever they tell you to observe, observe and do, but don’t do their works; for they say, and don’t do. (4) For they bind heavy burdens that are grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not lift a finger to help them.

I still don't see your point.