The Authority of Man

[theefaith]

Yes . And it aint the RCC . Come ye out of her my friend . Come to the one true church of JESUS CHRIST .
The lambs who gather in His name are His church .

what is it?

 

[theefaith]

Every time i see the RCC at work , i wonder the same thing . Come ye out my friend . You are loved and prayed for my friend .

you are too though I confess it’s not easy

 

[Brakelite]

The abuse of authority throughout history, and the assumption of authority over scripture is all the reason one needs to exercise his prerogative to choose not to surrender to papal authority.

 

[theefaith]

The abuse of authority throughout history, and the assumption of authority over scripture is all the reason one needs to exercise his prerogative to choose not to surrender to papal authority.

the popes are accountable to Christ not you!

 

[theefaith]

Or are you usurping Christ’s authority to be the just judge?

 

[Brakelite]

the popes are accountable to Christ not you!

And I am accountable to Christ and not the Pope.

Or are you usurping Christ’s authority to be the just judge?

So why does the pope usurp Christ's authority to judge?

 

[michaelvpardo]

I was having a conversation with the Lord about authority and discussed about a church pastor who tried to tell me to come under his authority, and how I gave the puffed up peacock the bum's rush. A verse of Scripture came to me:
"You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men" (1 Corinthians 7:23)

What this means that we have only one master - Christ. This is not to say that we have mentors who give us sound discipleship and confirm our faith in Christ. But the attitude of these ones is "Be followers of me as I am of Christ" (1 Corinthians 11:1). The good discipler shows an example of following Christ, and instead of forcing his own authority on his disciple, he points to the only Master of believers. Jesus Christ Himself.

The bottom line is this:
"No one can serve two masters: Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other" (Matthew 6:24).
I know that Jesus referred to having money as a master instead of God, but the principle is still the same, we cannot have Christ as our Master, and be under the authority of a man or group of men as masters.

If we put ourselves under the authority of men, we are no longer under the lordship of Christ. He is no longer our Master, the man or group of men are our masters instead. It means that as soon as we place ourselves under man's authority, we are no longer following Christ. We are rejecting Christ in favour of men, putting ourselves in a very serious situation concerning whether we are really committed to Christ or not.

This shows the the corruption of the Shepherding Movement, where "disciplers" and "shepherds" exerted their own authority on believers, causing immeasurable harm.

An example was in a New Zealand small town where there was a Pentecostal church. A group of people wanted to plant their own church, and the leader went, out of respect to the pastor of the existing church to inform him that a new Pentecostal church group was being planted and that they could work together in harmony. The pastor said, "This is my town, and I'm going to make sure that your church never gets off the ground". In six months, that Pentecostal church folded, and the pastor was out of the ministry, while the new church grew and flourished. This is an example where a pastor was setting up his own authority and not following Christ. The consequence was that the Holy Spirit took his ministry away from him and probably got into heaven by the skin of his teeth. The tragedy is that by asserting his own authority, he was deceiving his people and getting in between them and Christ.

Hmmm. Mutual submission is the rule in the church and Paul laid out an order of authority starting with the Apostles but all under the head, Jesus Christ. There are plenty of pastors out there that were never called to the office of pastor, but a pastor is an under shepherd to the great shepherd. His church is a body and we don't get to be the head. All ministry is servant ministry. Your age is showing.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Hmmm. Mutual submission is the rule in the church and Paul laid out an order of authority starting with the Apostles but all under the head, Jesus Christ. There are plenty of pastors out there that were never called to the office of pastor, but a pastor is an under shepherd to the great shepherd. His church is a body and we don't get to be the head. All ministry is servant ministry. Your age is showing.

I read something interesting in Calvin's commentary to 1 Corinthians where he writes about church ministers. He says that it is not the minister who grows the church. He quotes, "I planted, and Apollos watered". He says that Paul sees Apollos as the guy who holds the watering can to ensure that the conditions are always the best to ensure healthy growth. In fact, that is all a minister is - a guy who holds the watering can. Calvin also says that when a man is put up on a pedestal as more important than Christ, he can actually be a block to the working of the Holy Spirit and that is the reason why a church fails to achieve the results it should in terms of the power of the Holy Spirit to save souls and to build up the Body of Christ. Therefore when a pastor or minister calls the shots in a church, he effectively throws the watering can away and tried to achieve results and growth by himself. Of course, that is as ridiculous as a gardener out in his garden demanding that his seeds and flowers grow according to his own expectations, instead of doing his job of weeding and watering the garden.

Of course there are "weeds" (the lunatic fringe) in every church, and it is the pastor's job to ensure that they don't get so big in their boots that they don't hinder the good, godly members growing in grace.

It is true that the lunatic fringe brigade wastes much of a pastor or minister's time, and often causes burnout in a pastor. I've know of good ministers quitting the ministry because the lunatics have gained so much control that it was impossible for the pastors to continue their ministry effectively.

I am very thankful to have been discipled in a church with a very strict, godly pastor, who, when a lunatic tried to hijack a meeting, he would tell that person in no uncertain terms to "Sit down!" One leader told me about a lunatic going around giving personal prophecies to people, and so he pointed to a very large but friendly usher who could assist him to leave the premises if he didn't want to go, and the lunatic suddenly felt "guided", and God was telling him that it was time for him to leave!

 

[Brakelite]

I read something interesting in Calvin's commentary to 1 Corinthians where he writes about church ministers. He says that it is not the minister who grows the church. He quotes, "I planted, and Apollos watered". He says that Paul sees Apollos as the guy who holds the watering can to ensure that the conditions are always the best to ensure healthy growth. In fact, that is all a minister is - a guy who holds the watering can. Calvin also says that when a man is put up on a pedestal as more important than Christ, he can actually be a block to the working of the Holy Spirit and that is the reason why a church fails to achieve the results it should in terms of the power of the Holy Spirit to save souls and to build up the Body of Christ. Therefore when a pastor or minister calls the shots in a church, he effectively throws the watering can away and tried to achieve results and growth by himself. Of course, that is as ridiculous as a gardener out in his garden demanding that his seeds and flowers grow according to his own expectations, instead of doing his job of weeding and watering the garden.

Of course there are "weeds" (the lunatic fringe) in every church, and it is the pastor's job to ensure that they don't get so big in their boots that they don't hinder the good, godly members growing in grace.

It is true that the lunatic fringe brigade wastes much of a pastor or minister's time, and often causes burnout in a pastor. I've know of good ministers quitting the ministry because the lunatics have gained so much control that it was impossible for the pastors to continue their ministry effectively.

I am very thankful to have been discipled in a church with a very strict, godly pastor, who, when a lunatic tried to hijack a meeting, he would tell that person in no uncertain terms to "Sit down!" One leader told me about a lunatic going around giving personal prophecies to people, and so he pointed to a very large but friendly usher who could assist him to leave the premises if he didn't want to go, and the lunatic suddenly felt "guided", and God was telling him that it was time for him to leave!

Remembering of course that the watering can is Christ Himself... The fountain of living water. So long as we uphold Christ, the church will grow.

 

[michaelvpardo]

The faith is a soldier of the RCC . His heart , his life , his mind has he surrended to her will .
thus marvel not if he always tries to point one in that direction . As for the lambs , WE MUST FOLLOW CHRIST .

I don't disagree at all but the RCC is very much like Ephraim, their idolatry very much like the sin of Samaria. Ephraim is a silly dove, but still one that belongs to the Lord. Judgment begins in the house of God and it started long ago in Rome.
When I believed and received, I wasn't in a congregation and it took a while before the Lord gave me the unction to find a spiritual congregation. I eventually found one with a little strength, a small community Baptist church just a few blocks from my home. Nearly half the congregation was formerly Roman Catholic. After my adult baptism before that congregation I was anxious to serve in ministry, but no ministry leaders were willing to make room, none needed any help with their ministry, not even the AV guy who was curt with me and rude to me (I was a communication equipment specialist for a public agency with over a decade of experience at the time,) The pastor was not inclined to give control of anything away and his ministry leaders learned that error from him, but at least he answered to the church elders, who were spiritual men. I took my wife to another congregation that the Lord pointed out, also Baptist (reformed theology) called Grace Tabernacle where we became members and were welcomed into ministry almost immediately as there was always a need in this growing and lively church. That congregation was also nearly 50% former Catholic. We did mundane things without complaint, honored to be of some use and the Lord "promoted" us to more spiritual things (though my wife became increasingly jealous of my time. It's hard to please your wife and also please God and I didn't do so well with the wife. ) That congregation was vibrant with life and the Lord did healings, and honored proper church discipline, and the raising up of spiritual men as elders and deacons following the pattern of the first century church, and in just about everything except communal living. At some point trouble arose over changes in ministry imposed by the pastor. He's a sincere gifted and called pastor, but never had the full responsibility of pastoring a congregation by himself before he was hired (in the most democratic fashion) and made a few mistakes.
There are no perfect congregations, no perfect leaders but Christ, no perfect understandings, and certainly increasing error with all the Cultic notions, biblical misinterpretations, worldly administrations, professional ministry for money rather than God's glory, and lack of faith in the word itself.
The prophets were called to spiritual healing in the church, course correction, pointing always to the authority of the word, but we were silenced by contrived doctrine, labeled divisive, heretical, even as tares among the wheat, just for believing the word of God without discrimination.
Oy.
I don't sweat these things. God is in control and uses everything for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purposes. But our faith is challenged by what we see and what we see is not of faith.
Zerubbabel means born in Babylon.
“This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel:
‘Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’
Says the Lord of hosts.
7 ‘Who are you, O great mountain?
Before Zerubbabel you shall become a plain!
And he shall bring forth the capstone
With shouts of “Grace, grace to it! Zechariah 4:6-7
I really like the book of Zechariah. Some of the symbolism is tough, but there are a lot of prophetic passages relating to Christ, the church " age", and even to the millennial kingdom, all in one book. Strangely enough I've never heard anyone preach through it.

 

[amigo de christo]

I find it very good for the soul to simply keep the pattern and approach to all things like they did in the beginning .
Its a very good pattern to learn well . We can find it in the gospels as well as all the letters written from the apostels .
In acts , in revelation with the seven messages to the seven churches .
If anyone is in a dangerous place with seducers who seduce we need to warn them to get out of and away from such teachings .
We must look out for the people . Let us increase in time in the bible , as well as prayer and doing the things
of God . These days are getting only more deceptive .

 

[theefaith]

And I am accountable to Christ and not the Pope.

not according to Christ
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

So why does the pope usurp Christ's authority to judge?

not usurps but establishes

Matt 19:28