(The Beast) & (The Two Witnesses) Will Be On This Earth Together For 3.5 Years (Then Cometh The End)

[Douggg]

So the question you should be asking is what will YOU do when it becomes crystal clear that there is no pre-tribulation apture/resurrection? Or maybe they will claim there was and you are still here?

.................................................

They were beheaded for the witness (their testimony and not denying His name), didn’t take the mark of the beast, nor worshipped its image. This is clear POST great tribulation language just as scripture says.

My resurrection/rapture event timing view is at any time before the Antichrist commits the 2Thessalonians2:4 act.


Yes, you are correct that the dead in Christ rise first. But what you are not understanding is Jesus will circle the earth resurrecting the dead in Christ, rapturing the living in Christ as he goes.

 

[Douggg]

They were beheaded for the witness (their testimony and not denying His name), didn’t take the mark of the beast, nor worshipped its image. This is clear POST great tribulation language just as scripture says.

The first resurrection in Revelation 20 is not the resurrection/rapture event. No-one is said to be raptured (the living in Christ changed, caught up to meet Jesus in the air) in those verses.

The first resurrection in Revelation 20, that of the martyred great tribulation saints will take place at the start of the thousand years. The next resurrection of Revelation 20 will be at the end of the thousand years for the rest of the dead (i.e. everyone who does not partake in either the resurrection/rapture event or in the first resurrection of the thousand years.)

Please look at my any time rapture chart again. See to the right the Day of the Lord ? And under it the sequence of events,...

the AOD > the great tribulation > Jesus's second coming > the millennium > GWT judgement > eternity

 

[WitnessX]

My resurrection/rapture event timing view is at any time before the Antichrist commits the 2Thessalonians2:4 act.

View attachment 87355
Yes, you are correct that the dead in Christ rise first. But what you are not understanding is Jesus will circle the earth resurrecting the dead in Christ, rapturing the living in Christ as he goes.

View attachment 87357

What does 2 Thess 2 say:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (KJV) 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

So no, you are deceived and a deceiver. Scripture is clear, the truth is not in you.

Joel further says:

Joel 2:31 (KJV) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Peter quotes Joel 2:31 in Acts 2:20:

Acts 2:20 (KJV) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

Isaiah 13:9-10 agrees and witnesses to Joel and Peter, as do others:

Isaiah 13:9-10 (KJV) 9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. 10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

That is the 6th seal cosmic signs in Rev 6:12:

Revelation 6:12-13 (KJV) 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

The same 6th seal signs in Matt 24:29, Luke 21:25, and Mark 13:24-25:

Matthew 24:29 (KJV) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Luke 21:25 (KJV) And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Mark 13:24-25 (KJV) 24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

So, the scripture refutes what you are claiming. The truth is not in you. I won’t be responding to you again. You’ve been warned.

 

[WitnessX]

The first resurrection in Revelation 20 is not the resurrection/rapture event. No-one is said to be raptured (the living in Christ changed, caught up to meet Jesus in the air) in those verses.

The first resurrection in Revelation 20, that of the martyred great tribulation saints will take place at the start of the thousand years. The next resurrection of Revelation 20 will be at the end of the thousand years for the rest of the dead (i.e. everyone who does not partake in either the resurrection/rapture event or in the first resurrection of the thousand years.)

Please look at my any time rapture chart again. See to the right the Day of the Lord ? And under it the sequence of events,...

the AOD > the great tribulation > Jesus's second coming > the millennium > GWT judgement > eternity



View attachment 87358

There is no resurrection before the FIRST resurrection, therefore there is no catching up before the FIRST resurrection in Rev 20:4-6.

You are under delusion, deceived, and a deceiver. The Truth is not in you.

 

[Douggg]

What does 2 Thess 2 say:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (KJV) 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

So no, you are deceived and a deceiver. Scripture is clear, the truth is not in you.

What ? The man of sin will be revealed by the 2Thessalonians2:4 act. You did not include that verse in your quote for some reason.

The resurrection/rapture will take place before then.

The same 6th seal signs in Matt 24:29, Luke 21:25, and Mark 13:24-25:

Matthew 24:29 (KJV) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Luke 21:25 (KJV) And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Mark 13:24-25 (KJV) 24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

So, the scripture refutes what you are claiming. The truth is not in you. I won’t be responding to you again. You’ve been warned.

What ? My chart shows the sixth seal event. Right after "the tribulation of those days" Matthew 24:29.

Look again at my chart. Do see Matthew 24:29 and the sixth seal event annotated ?

The truth is not in you. I won’t be responding to you again. You’ve been warned.

@WitnessX

Show some of your charts.

 

[Douggg]

There is no resurrection before the FIRST resurrection, therefore there is no catching up before the FIRST resurrection in Rev 20:4-6.

You are not understanding what the first resurrection of Revelation 20:4 is referring to.

It is referring to the first resurrection relative to the 1000 year millennium. It only applies to the martyred great tribulation saints - no else

Here is the verse. Do you see anyone else in the verse other than the martyred great tribulation saints ?

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

[William Barton]

You’ve been thoroughly rebutted. I’ve provided clear and precise scriptures to the timing and manner of a Christ Jesus’s one and only return.

"And I looked, and lo, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a Son of Man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat upon the cloud, "Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe." So he who sat upon the cloud swung his sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped."
(Revelation 14:14-16)

"He who sat upon the cloud" = "Jesus."
"Reap" = " rapture."

"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will *rise first.* " (1Thessalonians 4:16).

RAPTURE !

Also consider:
"Earth" is Greek γη = "land." There was no concept of *planet earth* in Biblical times.

This is pre-great-tribulation rapture. The purpose is to remove believers from the coming carnage.

 

[Douggg]

"And I looked, and lo, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a Son of Man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat upon the cloud, "Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe." So he who sat upon the cloud swung his sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped."
(Revelation 14:14-16)

Hi William,

I don't think those verses are referring to the rapture but to the judgement on the wicked at Jesus's return.

If you look at verses 17-20, an angel is also given a sickle. Now look at verse 20...

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

That is the length of the nation of Israel top to bottom. Without the city means outside of Jerusalem.

So all kings of the earth armies packed into Israel to make war on Jesus and His armies of heaven are going to be destroyed by that angel.

Within Jerusalem, Jesus is going to destroy the armies there. Relation19:19-21.

 

[Douggg]

@William Barton

Jesus sickle in hand in Revelation 14:14 will be the sign of the Son of man in heaven in Matthew 24:30a.

 

[ewq1938]

I’m going to concede that you are likely correct and we are maybe talking past each other on the meaning here.

Appreciate that.

I do believe in two prophets who will stand in opposition to the AC and false prophet in Jerusalem just as the scriptures state during the great tribulation.

I also believe there are two groups of witnesses in the latter days beyond these two prophets. These groups make up the 144k.

Possibly. As i explained, my understanding of the 2W is that they are made up of two persons and two churches, which are an unknown amount of ppl. There is also the 144k but I do not know if they are one or both of those churches or a third group with a different purpose.

Though they are not literal virgins, they are spiritual virgins, having never worshipped false gods, follow Jesus wheresoever He may go and they are called jews in line with Romans 2:29.

For sure spiritual virgins. I haven't decided if they might also be literal virgins or not. Seems less important but who knows, maybe they are super-virgins.

Romans 2:29 (KJV) But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

Peace and Blessings.

Same to you, thanks.

 

[ewq1938]

If they fall away - they are no longer a Christian.

Of course. They are Apostates that commit Apostasy.

How can the rapture, the sudden disappearance of Christians, be faked ?

The sudden disappearance of people who think they are Christians? The AC won't only be deceiving people, he will be able to perform miracles to do so.

 

[Douggg]

The sudden disappearance of people who think they are Christians? The AC won't only be deceiving people, he will be able to perform miracles to do so.

No, I am asking how can the Antichrist execute a fake rapture of actual Christians ?

There is nothing in the bible that speaks about a fake rapture event.

 

[Truth7t7]

There is no resurrection before the FIRST resurrection, therefore there is no catching up before the FIRST resurrection in Rev 20:4-6.

You are under delusion, deceived, and a deceiver. The Truth is not in you.

Revelation 20:6 "The First Resurrection" Explained

There will be "Two Future Resurrections" on "The Last Day" the righteous saved are "Blessed" to be in "The First Resurrection" to eternal life, the second death resurrection has no power over the righteous saved

The second death will see the unsaved wicked being in "The Second Resurrection" to eternal damnation in the lake of fire, or the "Second Death"

"The Last Day" Resurrection of "All"

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Revelation 20:6KJV
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

1.) The First Resurrection To Eternal Life
2.) The Second Resurrection To Eternal Damnation, Second Death

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

(The First Resurrection Of The Righteous Saved) The Dead In Christ Shall Rise "First"

1 Thessalonians 4:16KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

(The Second Resurrection Of The Wicked To The Second Death In Eternal Damnation)

Revelation 20:13-14KJV
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

[Truth7t7]

This is pre-great-tribulation rapture. The purpose is to remove believers from the coming carnage.

You can't provide one scripture in the Bible that teaches of your claim in a (Pre-Trib Rapture/Catching Up)

 

[PeterAndroz]

"And I looked, and lo, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a Son of Man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat upon the cloud, "Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe." So he who sat upon the cloud swung his sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped."
(Revelation 14:14-16)

"He who sat upon the cloud" = "Jesus."
"Reap" = " rapture."

"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will *rise first.* " (1Thessalonians 4:16).

RAPTURE !

Also consider:
"Earth" is Greek γη = "land." There was no concept of *planet earth* in Biblical times.

This is pre-great-tribulation rapture. The purpose is to remove believers from the coming carnage.

WB >> ""This is pre-great-tribulation rapture. The purpose is to remove believers from the coming carnage.""
Agreed since this is taught by Christ through Paul.
Get your baseball bat ready Will because there are many here who want to be around when the 'carnage' starts.