We disagree, the AC is clearly seen martyring believers at the 5th seal….he is the false Christ. That is when the abomination of the temple happens, that’s when believers in Jerusalem are told to flee into the mountains. Not the 6th seal as you presume.
(The Beast) & (The Two Witnesses) Will Be On This Earth Together For 3.5 Years (Then Cometh The End)
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IMO:
There was no concept of planet earth in Biblical times. "Earth" in Revelation 16:2 is "land," as in "the farmer plows the earth."
WitnessX noted:
<Once again, their flesh died.>
Once again, the Bible says Enoch and Elijah did not die.
I cited the scripture.
<Once again, their flesh died.>
Once again, the Bible says Enoch and Elijah did not die.
I cited the scripture.
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Here is the reality of scripture properly interpreted: Neither experienced death. They were translated. That doesn’t mean their flesh didn’t die…It means they passed go directly and were translated without experiencing the process of pyshical death.
Hebrews 11:5 (KJV) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
2 Kings 2:11 (KJV) And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, [there appeared] a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God:
1 Corinthians 15:50 (KJV) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
They are the witnesses too and the typology of those who will be caught up in 1 Thess 4:17 and changed in a twinkling of an eye in 1 Cor 15:51-52.
You are conflating them being translated with their flesh not dying….which is incorrect. They didn’t experience death…but their flesh still died.
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It says he would not see death so that means his body did not die.
Going to heaven is not the sme as inheriting the KoG.
No, that contradicts what the text says.
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Not a point of argument, a minor issue in my opinion
It's my observation and opinion that their bodies didn't die, a mystery that we possibly don't understand
Hebrews 11:5 (KJV) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
2 Kings 2:11 (KJV) And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, [there appeared] a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
IMO:
o. Enoch and Elijah were/are flesh and blood, same as myself, and they are still flesh and blood, and they will eventually die, as will I.
o. The last two chapters of Revelation describe the new heavens and earth, when there will be no death.
o. Absence of death does not necessarily imply eternal existence. We were created, and we can be uncreated. What will occur in the new heavens and earth is largely a mystery to me.
IMO:
"Translate" means "move from one place to another," nothing to do with death. Enoch was gone, not because he died, but because he moved from earth to heaven.
Davy
Well-Known Member
How is it that you haven't understood that when they see the "abomination of desolation" setup in Jerusalem, that is what actually begins the "great tribulation" period, and... the very next Sign that Lord Jesus gave after that in His Olivet discourse is that of His coming?
Do you see their flesh walking around today? No, it passed away..no longer exists in its current form. Simple.
That’s what I said, the 5th seal begins the persecution and the great tribulation…not the 6th seal casting down of satan and his angels as you proclaim.
Show me their flesh and blood….prove it…you can’t….they were translated….their flesh passed away just as the earth will in the twinkling of an eye.
False, they are the same thing.
Mark and Luke speak of the Kingdom of God.
Matthew speaks of the Kingdom of Heaven.
They are all speaking of the same thing when they do.
The mt of transfiguration in Matt 17 is the example of the eternal state and the kingdom of God/Heaven. Jesus is seen as a translated version just as Matt 16:28 says. (Preterists like to latch onto this as some kind of proof yet they fail to properly understand that Jesus being translated is the coming in His kingdom of God/Heaven being referred too)
Matthew 16:28 (KJV) Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. (Sounds like Elijah and Enoch to me)
Matthew 17:2 (KJV) And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Even Jesus uses them interchangeably:
Matthew 19:23-24 (KJV) 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Once again, being alive and then translated is skipping the “exeperiencing/seeing” death step being referred too in Hebrews 9:27. They passed death and went straight to the eternal state. This is consistent with scripture.
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