(The Beast) & (The Two Witnesses) Will Be On This Earth Together For 3.5 Years (Then Cometh The End)

[WitnessX]

It's part of the 6th Seal, so yeah, we have... been discussing that subject of the coming false-Messiah, for that's what the stars falling as "untimely figs" is about. And I pretty much mentioned that to you from the start.

We disagree, the AC is clearly seen martyring believers at the 5th seal….he is the false Christ. That is when the abomination of the temple happens, that’s when believers in Jerusalem are told to flee into the mountains. Not the 6th seal as you presume.

 

[William Barton]

They died…their flesh no longer lives. That means they died the first death.

Neither Enoch nor Elijah ever died.

 

[William Barton]

The Bible clearly teaches that the Lord's vial plagues in judgement will be upon the entire unsaved humans upon earth, those who have the mark of the beast and worship the image, simple, clear, easy to understand

Revelation 16:2KJV
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

IMO:
There was no concept of planet earth in Biblical times. "Earth" in Revelation 16:2 is "land," as in "the farmer plows the earth."

 

[William Barton]

WitnessX noted:
<Once again, their flesh died.>

Once again, the Bible says Enoch and Elijah did not die.
I cited the scripture.

 

[WitnessX]

WitnessX noted:
<Once again, their flesh died.>

Once again, the Bible says Enoch and Elijah did not die.
I cited the scripture.

Here is the reality of scripture properly interpreted: Neither experienced death. They were translated. That doesn’t mean their flesh didn’t die…It means they passed go directly and were translated without experiencing the process of pyshical death.

Hebrews 11:5 (KJV) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

2 Kings 2:11 (KJV) And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, [there appeared] a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God:

1 Corinthians 15:50 (KJV) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

They are the witnesses too and the typology of those who will be caught up in 1 Thess 4:17 and changed in a twinkling of an eye in 1 Cor 15:51-52.

You are conflating them being translated with their flesh not dying….which is incorrect. They didn’t experience death…but their flesh still died.

 

[ewq1938]

Here is the reality of scripture properly interpreted: Neither experienced death. They were translated. That doesn’t mean their flesh didn’t die…It means they passed go directly and were translated without experiencing the process of pyshical death.

Hebrews 11:5 (KJV) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

It says he would not see death so that means his body did not die.

2 Kings 2:11 (KJV) And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, [there appeared] a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God:

Going to heaven is not the sme as inheriting the KoG.

1 Corinthians 15:50 (KJV) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

They are the witnesses too and the typology of those who will be caught up in 1 Thess 4:17 and changed in a twinkling of an eye in 1 Cor 15:51-52.

You are conflating them being translated with their flesh not dying….which is incorrect. They didn’t experience death…but their flesh still died.

No, that contradicts what the text says.

 

[Truth7t7]

Here is the reality of scripture properly interpreted: Neither experienced death. They were translated. That doesn’t mean their flesh didn’t die…It means they passed go directly and were translated without experiencing the process of pyshical death.

Hebrews 11:5 (KJV) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

2 Kings 2:11 (KJV) And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, [there appeared] a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God:

1 Corinthians 15:50 (KJV) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

They are the witnesses too and the typology of those who will be caught up in 1 Thess 4:17 and changed in a twinkling of an eye in 1 Cor 15:51-52.

You are conflating them being translated with their flesh not dying….which is incorrect. They didn’t experience death…but their flesh still died.

Not a point of argument, a minor issue in my opinion

It's my observation and opinion that their bodies didn't die, a mystery that we possibly don't understand

Hebrews 11:5 (KJV) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

2 Kings 2:11 (KJV) And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, [there appeared] a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

 

[William Barton]

Here is the reality of scripture properly interpreted: Neither experienced death. They were translated. That doesn’t mean their flesh didn’t die…It means they passed go directly and were translated without experiencing the process of pyshical death.

Hebrews 11:5 (KJV) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

2 Kings 2:11 (KJV) And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, [there appeared] a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God:

1 Corinthians 15:50 (KJV) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

They are the witnesses too and the typology of those who will be caught up in 1 Thess 4:17 and changed in a twinkling of an eye in 1 Cor 15:51-52.

You are conflating them being translated with their flesh not dying….which is incorrect. They didn’t experience death…but their flesh still died.

IMO:
o. Enoch and Elijah were/are flesh and blood, same as myself, and they are still flesh and blood, and they will eventually die, as will I.

o. The last two chapters of Revelation describe the new heavens and earth, when there will be no death.

o. Absence of death does not necessarily imply eternal existence. We were created, and we can be uncreated. What will occur in the new heavens and earth is largely a mystery to me.

Here is the reality of scripture properly interpreted: Neither experienced death. They were translated. That doesn’t mean their flesh didn’t die…It means they passed go directly and were translated without experiencing the process of pyshical death.

Hebrews 11:5 (KJV) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated

IMO:
"Translate" means "move from one place to another," nothing to do with death. Enoch was gone, not because he died, but because he moved from earth to heaven.

 

[Davy]

We disagree, the AC is clearly seen martyring believers at the 5th seal….he is the false Christ. That is when the abomination of the temple happens, that’s when believers in Jerusalem are told to flee into the mountains. Not the 6th seal as you presume.

How is it that you haven't understood that when they see the "abomination of desolation" setup in Jerusalem, that is what actually begins the "great tribulation" period, and... the very next Sign that Lord Jesus gave after that in His Olivet discourse is that of His coming?

 

[WitnessX]

It says he would not see death so that means his body did not die.





Going to heaven is not the sme as inheriting the KoG.




No, that contradicts what the text says.

Do you see their flesh walking around today? No, it passed away..no longer exists in its current form. Simple.

 

[WitnessX]

How is it that you haven't understood that when they see the "abomination of desolation" setup in Jerusalem, that is what actually begins the "great tribulation" period, and... the very next Sign that Lord Jesus gave after that in His Olivet discourse is that of His coming?

That’s what I said, the 5th seal begins the persecution and the great tribulation…not the 6th seal casting down of satan and his angels as you proclaim.

 

[WitnessX]

IMO:
o. Enoch and Elijah were/are flesh and blood, same as myself, and they are still flesh and blood, and they will eventually die, as will I.

o. The last two chapters of Revelation describe the new heavens and earth, when there will be no death.

o. Absence of death does not necessarily imply eternal existence. We were created, and we can be uncreated. What will occur in the new heavens and earth is largely a mystery to me.

IMO:
"Translate" means "move from one place to another," nothing to do with death. Enoch was gone, not because he died, but because he moved from earth to heaven.

Show me their flesh and blood….prove it…you can’t….they were translated….their flesh passed away just as the earth will in the twinkling of an eye.

 

[WitnessX]

Going to heaven is not the sme as inheriting the KoG.

False, they are the same thing.

Mark and Luke speak of the Kingdom of God.

Matthew speaks of the Kingdom of Heaven.

They are all speaking of the same thing when they do.

The mt of transfiguration in Matt 17 is the example of the eternal state and the kingdom of God/Heaven. Jesus is seen as a translated version just as Matt 16:28 says. (Preterists like to latch onto this as some kind of proof yet they fail to properly understand that Jesus being translated is the coming in His kingdom of God/Heaven being referred too)

Matthew 16:28 (KJV) Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. (Sounds like Elijah and Enoch to me)

Matthew 17:2 (KJV) And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Even Jesus uses them interchangeably:

Matthew 19:23-24 (KJV) 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Once again, being alive and then translated is skipping the “exeperiencing/seeing” death step being referred too in Hebrews 9:27. They passed death and went straight to the eternal state. This is consistent with scripture.

 

[6 Stories]

When Satan is cast down to earth in Revelation 12:12, he will seek to persecute the woman, Israel, for a time, times, half time, in Revelation 12:14.

So that is how long the third woe lasts. During that time, times, half time - Satan will be restricted to being on earth.

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As soon as Satan is cast down to earth at the beginning of the third woe, he will be tossed the key to bottomless pit. And as the falling star in Revelation 9:1, when he opens the bottomless pit, it releases the flesh tormenting locust described as the first woe.

I know that sounds strange, but the first woe and the beginning of third woe are tied together.



View attachment 87708

Rev 12:13 "And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child."
When Satan sees that he is on earth, he persecutes Israel.

Rev 12:14 "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."
If Satan is only on earth for 3.5 years, he doesn't persecute Israel at all because Israel has a place of refuge for 3.5 years, making verse 13 above null and void.

Logically, having woe number 3 start at the same time as woe number 1 and before woe number 2 just doesn't add up for me.

Were you able to see a correlation between the earthly events of the trumpets and the heavenly events of Rev 12?