(The Beast) & (The Two Witnesses) Will Be On This Earth Together For 3.5 Years (Then Cometh The End)

[WitnessX]

It's part of the 6th Seal, so yeah, we have... been discussing that subject of the coming false-Messiah, for that's what the stars falling as "untimely figs" is about. And I pretty much mentioned that to you from the start.

We disagree, the AC is clearly seen martyring believers at the 5th seal….he is the false Christ. That is when the abomination of the temple happens, that’s when believers in Jerusalem are told to flee into the mountains. Not the 6th seal as you presume.

 

[William Barton]

They died…their flesh no longer lives. That means they died the first death.

Neither Enoch nor Elijah ever died.

 

[William Barton]

The Bible clearly teaches that the Lord's vial plagues in judgement will be upon the entire unsaved humans upon earth, those who have the mark of the beast and worship the image, simple, clear, easy to understand

Revelation 16:2KJV
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

IMO:
There was no concept of planet earth in Biblical times. "Earth" in Revelation 16:2 is "land," as in "the farmer plows the earth."

 

[William Barton]

WitnessX noted:
<Once again, their flesh died.>

Once again, the Bible says Enoch and Elijah did not die.
I cited the scripture.

 

[WitnessX]

WitnessX noted:
<Once again, their flesh died.>

Once again, the Bible says Enoch and Elijah did not die.
I cited the scripture.

Here is the reality of scripture properly interpreted: Neither experienced death. They were translated. That doesn’t mean their flesh didn’t die…It means they passed go directly and were translated without experiencing the process of pyshical death.

Hebrews 11:5 (KJV) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

2 Kings 2:11 (KJV) And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, [there appeared] a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God:

1 Corinthians 15:50 (KJV) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

They are the witnesses too and the typology of those who will be caught up in 1 Thess 4:17 and changed in a twinkling of an eye in 1 Cor 15:51-52.

You are conflating them being translated with their flesh not dying….which is incorrect. They didn’t experience death…but their flesh still died.

 

[ewq1938]

Here is the reality of scripture properly interpreted: Neither experienced death. They were translated. That doesn’t mean their flesh didn’t die…It means they passed go directly and were translated without experiencing the process of pyshical death.

Hebrews 11:5 (KJV) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

It says he would not see death so that means his body did not die.

2 Kings 2:11 (KJV) And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, [there appeared] a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God:

Going to heaven is not the sme as inheriting the KoG.

1 Corinthians 15:50 (KJV) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

They are the witnesses too and the typology of those who will be caught up in 1 Thess 4:17 and changed in a twinkling of an eye in 1 Cor 15:51-52.

You are conflating them being translated with their flesh not dying….which is incorrect. They didn’t experience death…but their flesh still died.

No, that contradicts what the text says.

 

[Truth7t7]

Here is the reality of scripture properly interpreted: Neither experienced death. They were translated. That doesn’t mean their flesh didn’t die…It means they passed go directly and were translated without experiencing the process of pyshical death.

Hebrews 11:5 (KJV) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

2 Kings 2:11 (KJV) And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, [there appeared] a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God:

1 Corinthians 15:50 (KJV) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

They are the witnesses too and the typology of those who will be caught up in 1 Thess 4:17 and changed in a twinkling of an eye in 1 Cor 15:51-52.

You are conflating them being translated with their flesh not dying….which is incorrect. They didn’t experience death…but their flesh still died.

Not a point of argument, a minor issue in my opinion

It's my observation and opinion that their bodies didn't die, a mystery that we possibly don't understand

Hebrews 11:5 (KJV) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

2 Kings 2:11 (KJV) And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, [there appeared] a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

 

[William Barton]

Here is the reality of scripture properly interpreted: Neither experienced death. They were translated. That doesn’t mean their flesh didn’t die…It means they passed go directly and were translated without experiencing the process of pyshical death.

Hebrews 11:5 (KJV) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

2 Kings 2:11 (KJV) And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, [there appeared] a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God:

1 Corinthians 15:50 (KJV) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

They are the witnesses too and the typology of those who will be caught up in 1 Thess 4:17 and changed in a twinkling of an eye in 1 Cor 15:51-52.

You are conflating them being translated with their flesh not dying….which is incorrect. They didn’t experience death…but their flesh still died.

IMO:
o. Enoch and Elijah were/are flesh and blood, same as myself, and they are still flesh and blood, and they will eventually die, as will I.

o. The last two chapters of Revelation describe the new heavens and earth, when there will be no death.

o. Absence of death does not necessarily imply eternal existence. We were created, and we can be uncreated. What will occur in the new heavens and earth is largely a mystery to me.

Here is the reality of scripture properly interpreted: Neither experienced death. They were translated. That doesn’t mean their flesh didn’t die…It means they passed go directly and were translated without experiencing the process of pyshical death.

Hebrews 11:5 (KJV) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated

IMO:
"Translate" means "move from one place to another," nothing to do with death. Enoch was gone, not because he died, but because he moved from earth to heaven.

 

[Davy]

We disagree, the AC is clearly seen martyring believers at the 5th seal….he is the false Christ. That is when the abomination of the temple happens, that’s when believers in Jerusalem are told to flee into the mountains. Not the 6th seal as you presume.

How is it that you haven't understood that when they see the "abomination of desolation" setup in Jerusalem, that is what actually begins the "great tribulation" period, and... the very next Sign that Lord Jesus gave after that in His Olivet discourse is that of His coming?

 

[WitnessX]

It says he would not see death so that means his body did not die.





Going to heaven is not the sme as inheriting the KoG.




No, that contradicts what the text says.

Do you see their flesh walking around today? No, it passed away..no longer exists in its current form. Simple.

 

[WitnessX]

How is it that you haven't understood that when they see the "abomination of desolation" setup in Jerusalem, that is what actually begins the "great tribulation" period, and... the very next Sign that Lord Jesus gave after that in His Olivet discourse is that of His coming?

That’s what I said, the 5th seal begins the persecution and the great tribulation…not the 6th seal casting down of satan and his angels as you proclaim.

 

[WitnessX]

IMO:
o. Enoch and Elijah were/are flesh and blood, same as myself, and they are still flesh and blood, and they will eventually die, as will I.

o. The last two chapters of Revelation describe the new heavens and earth, when there will be no death.

o. Absence of death does not necessarily imply eternal existence. We were created, and we can be uncreated. What will occur in the new heavens and earth is largely a mystery to me.

IMO:
"Translate" means "move from one place to another," nothing to do with death. Enoch was gone, not because he died, but because he moved from earth to heaven.

Show me their flesh and blood….prove it…you can’t….they were translated….their flesh passed away just as the earth will in the twinkling of an eye.

 

[WitnessX]

Going to heaven is not the sme as inheriting the KoG.

False, they are the same thing.

Mark and Luke speak of the Kingdom of God.

Matthew speaks of the Kingdom of Heaven.

They are all speaking of the same thing when they do.

The mt of transfiguration in Matt 17 is the example of the eternal state and the kingdom of God/Heaven. Jesus is seen as a translated version just as Matt 16:28 says. (Preterists like to latch onto this as some kind of proof yet they fail to properly understand that Jesus being translated is the coming in His kingdom of God/Heaven being referred too)

Matthew 16:28 (KJV) Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. (Sounds like Elijah and Enoch to me)

Matthew 17:2 (KJV) And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Even Jesus uses them interchangeably:

Matthew 19:23-24 (KJV) 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Once again, being alive and then translated is skipping the “exeperiencing/seeing” death step being referred too in Hebrews 9:27. They passed death and went straight to the eternal state. This is consistent with scripture.

 

[6 Stories]

When Satan is cast down to earth in Revelation 12:12, he will seek to persecute the woman, Israel, for a time, times, half time, in Revelation 12:14.

So that is how long the third woe lasts. During that time, times, half time - Satan will be restricted to being on earth.

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As soon as Satan is cast down to earth at the beginning of the third woe, he will be tossed the key to bottomless pit. And as the falling star in Revelation 9:1, when he opens the bottomless pit, it releases the flesh tormenting locust described as the first woe.

I know that sounds strange, but the first woe and the beginning of third woe are tied together.



View attachment 87708

Rev 12:13 "And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child."
When Satan sees that he is on earth, he persecutes Israel.

Rev 12:14 "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."
If Satan is only on earth for 3.5 years, he doesn't persecute Israel at all because Israel has a place of refuge for 3.5 years, making verse 13 above null and void.

Logically, having woe number 3 start at the same time as woe number 1 and before woe number 2 just doesn't add up for me.

Were you able to see a correlation between the earthly events of the trumpets and the heavenly events of Rev 12?

 

[6 Stories]

Zechariah Chapter 14 Is The Eternal Kingdom​

Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.

(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below

(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.

(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 22:1KJV
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

"The Eternal Kingdom"!

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lordshall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Zech 14 is a type/shadow of what will come.
v4 When God is on the mount of Olives, the earth doesn't dissolve, just an earthquake. In a perfect new earth, there won't be any earthquakes.

v5 Unsaved Israelites will flee as those just given new bodies return to this same earth with Jesus. Compare with Zech 12:6 " In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
Zech 12:11 "In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem."
Zech 12:12 "And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;" No mourning in heavenly Jerusalem.

v8 Living waters in this context means fresh waters.
Zech 13:1 "In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness." Will there be sin in New Jerusalem?
Ez 47:9-10 "9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh. 10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.

v9 Zech 9:8 "And I will encamp about mine house because of the army, because of him that passeth by, and because of him that returneth: and no oppressor shall pass through them any more: for now have I seen with mine eyes.

The measurements of the temple of the millennial kingdom describe a temple that is 6 times as big as the former temples. This is made possible by the earthquake changing the topography.

God's eternal kingdom begins in Rev 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." Even after 1000 years, when Satan is free of his chain, Christ will be reigning on earth. When this earth is destroyed at the last trumpet of God, Christ will still be reigning over a new heaven and a new earth. At that last trumpet there will be a second resurrection of the dead. That's the reason the first resurrection is called the first resurrection and not just the resurrection.

 

[6 Stories]

Once again Jesus Christ, God manifest in the flesh clearly tells the reader, simple, clear, and before your eyes, there's no need to compare or look elsewhere "God Has Spoken" heed what you read!

(I Beheld Satan As Lightning Fall From Heaven)

Luke 10:17-18KJV
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Did Satan fall to earth in v18 or did he just lose some authority?

Is v18 above the equivalent of Rev 12:7-9?
"7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

 

[Douggg]

Rev 12:14 "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."
If Satan is only on earth for 3.5 years, he doesn't persecute Israel at all because Israel has a place of refuge for 3.5 years, making verse 13 above null and void.

The woman being in the wilderness for the time, times, half are the ones in Israel who heeded Jesus's instructions in Matthew 24:15-21, to flee into the mountains when they see the abomination of desolation set up. Flee without delay.

Those who don't flee without delay will have their escape routes blocked and are the remnant of the woman in Revelation 12:17.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[ewq1938]

False, they are the same thing.

Nope. Entering a place does not mean you inherit that place. Try it by entering into a Walmart.

 

[ewq1938]

Do you see their flesh walking around today? No, it passed away..no longer exists in its current form. Simple.

They are in heaven and they entered heaven in flesh bodies.

 

[William Barton]

Show me their flesh and blood….prove it…you can’t….they were translated….their flesh passed away just as the earth will in the twinkling of an eye.

The two witnesses still have their flesh in Revelation 11:3-12, as they are caught up to heaven.