The betrayal of America and its consequences

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,490
31,653
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Upon reading your post, I became disappointed. It is a condemnation post with many words of regret, and without saying where you really stand on the topic. Was it worth writing all this without coming to any real meaningful conclusion?
What meaningful conclusion should you expect other than that I am trusting in God? Am I leaning on Him? Am I humbling myself before Him? Am I listening to His voice and obeying Him? Would you really rather that I obey and follow you or any other man hoping and expecting me to jump on his bandwagon to accomplish his purpose? What about my purpose, the one for which God called me?

Do you want me to say that you are right and that I am wrong just to ease or eliminate your disappointment?
What direction is God leading me? Does it, or should it, or must it coincide precisely with yours?


I'm also disappointed because, not that you evidently do not share my view on this thread and topic. And not because I generally disagreed with it all, as an intellectual argument. No, because I sensed you do not see real major evil and spiritual warfare facing America today, for the first time since its creation. Furthermore, It seems though you believe taking an interest in America, its politics, social life and its institutions is not worth a believer's time nor should they get caught up into it as they most probably, by deduction of your text, are not on the Lord's side. If this is true, then this is a damming charge, bordering on self-righteousness.
I certainly see the evil within America and the world. However, I know that my pathway which God has put before me is not yours. I will not set aside the work that God has for me to do in favor of the 'save the nation' crusade you apparently believe is yours. Perhaps for you it is. Don't try to put that on me. I have always loved this country. It was very hard to understand why people would run to Canada to avoid military service when I was going to Viet Nam with so many others. I was there early for the war, but still I lost two friends there whose faces are etched forever in my brain. I have loved and love this country, but first things must be first.

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

In its best day, the USA was Not the kingdom Nor the righteousness of God. Certainly it has been involved as so
many Americans have been and are involved in the things of God, but don't presume that America is the kingdom of God or equal to it!


The children of Israel died in the wilderness with two exceptions. The ten northern tribes of Israel were carried away as their nation fell. The southern nation of Judah fell and Jerusalem also fell. Are the people of America today more 'the people of God' than those children of Jacob God led out of Egypt? Did the Israelites who died during 40 years in the desert due to rebellion against God rebel more strongly against Him than perhaps the majority of Americans today rebel against God? Those people had only the anointed Moses to trust. We, each one of us, have, or could have, the anointing of God in ourselves in the Holy Spirit to trust.
The 600,000 died because they were not worthy and they rebelled repeatedly. Are we, we Americans more worthy? Have we really done a better job since God has really given us the possibility of more with the Holy Ghost within us?

Should we gather ourselves together with some of these lesser devils and fight shedding if necessary the blood of those worse [in your opinion] devils on the other side? God did not draw a line between the two groups of devils. Men have done that and are continuing to do it. Are there any that are not devils or are without a devilish spirit on either side of that line? You or me or that other guy? Who is so much in the know as to judge that rightly? Were there any faithful Christian people in Germany during the time Hitler was coming to power? Is the USA better than Germany? Are the American people better than the German people?

Everyone get aboard this train heading toward God [Really?] even though we are to effectively
align ourselves with devils to accomplish it and we are to follow men rather than Jesus toward what? Not toward any Light of God that I can see not looking toward the front of that train.

If America has a good future it is through God, but not very much of what I see looks very much like Jesus. My vision is undoubtedly at times dim or blurred or darkened, but should I believe that yours [your vision] is always better and follow you?

Is it not the face of Jesus we are to seek? Is it not Jesus we are to become like? In what man do we see His face?

Yes, there are many carnal and fake Christians in America, as in all countries, as in the past, even in the tribes of Israel. None of that has changed and never will for now. And to then say by reading into your words that America will be damned and destroyed like Sodom. And so by implication there is no consequences if evil continues to penetrate and betray America and even if it succeeds into transforming it into a tyrannical communistic, godless and immoral nation. And there are godless men in America who are primarily from one political party today, driving this charge forward, being encourage and aided and abetted by foreign godless enemies of America, and I believe of our Lord.
So have you received a revelation from God that the salvation of men is bound up in the salvation of the nation called the United States of America? The USA is already a godless and immoral nation. Is your plan going to change that by supporting the lesser of two evils? Since every man is a liar, which one should I believe is to do the most good and the least harm?

"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged" Rom 3:4

I am concerned about the individuals [not only Americans, but whosoever will of those that God calls] especially those for whom I may be used as an instrument of God to help them move closer to God. Only God gives the increase, but He does use people either as His right hand or as His left hand. Are you sure you are working as or in the Right Hand of God and that me or anyone else not on your train must necessarily be must be Left hand workers?

God saves people! If God wanted to use a national government to save people, He certainly could, but I do not see our national government in that plan. His Plan, now. I do not see your plan as being His Plan. Will you convince me by the arguments of men, by your own logic that your plan is God's plan?

If only the few, the Joshuas, Calebs, Noahs and Daniels are to be saved, should we not then work with our might... as God leads us, to help Him to help them? Should I design my own plan or take hold of some other man's plan and strive to implement it? Is God's Way, God's plan, flawed?

The current events in America go far beyond any President or any Political party. It is part of the spiritual battle for the hearts and minds of people in this country, we call America. It will affect all other nations in the process. It affects true believers MORE than the carnal folks and the fake Christians you wrote about. Believers are much more sensitive to this spiritual war waging at the feet of this country today. It is not a time to 'hide' and say I want to be on the Lord's side. And what does that mean in your context, in your post anyway?
Do I look like I am hiding? I am following the Lord everyday doing the best that I can sometimes stumbling and falling down. but with God's help I keep on lifting up my eyes toward Jesus one more time. You don't see my work as perhaps I cannot see yours, but then neither one of us is the Head. Does He reveal everything to every member of his Body about every other member of the Body?

In the near future, and God forbid, this America we both live and pray in, could easily become a truly godless nation under Communism.

And if in this godless environment I happen to cross into your neighborhood, and see you at the mercy of communist thugs, can I fight for you and your family as as former member of the independent political Party we used to know, and a true believer of the congregation of the Lord?
How many good German Christians fought for the Jews, blacks, Gypsies and Jehovah's Witnesses in the German homeland when the 'Nazi thugs' went after them? We may read about members of those groups being attacked and killed, but how many not in those groups, like a Shindler, actually risked themselves to prevent or minimize the holocaust? Remember that this supposedly very Christian nation at the time was among those refusing to give sanctuary to people fleeing the merciless persecution of the German Reich!
 
Last edited:

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,490
31,653
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@APAK
Would I be on the Lord's side and doing his will? Could I be a Noah, or a Daniel? Or should I first save my own hide, and skedaddle into the darkness for safety, as a loser, one who shames Christ?

I for one must take a stand against any form of evil on whatever level that my Spirit within me compels me to do, at my doorstep or at my nation's shores. I will always do it God's way as he sees fit, and not my way.

Bless you,

APAK
You must do what you believe God is telling you to do. Do not presume, however, that everyone else has precisely the same function. Do not presume that everyone not where you are would not stand up with God in the worst of circumstances or threats! Who among us labeled Christian really loves God more than anything else? Only those who will stand with APAK?

"Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all." I Cor 12:4-6

"For the body is not one member, but many.
If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him." I Cor 12:14-18
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Addy

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
9,157
9,875
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@APAK

You must do what you believe God is telling you to do. Do not presume, however, that everyone else has precisely the same function. Do not presume that everyone not where you are would not stand up God in the worst of circumstances or threats! Who among us labeled Christian really loves God more than anything else? Only those who will stand with APAK?

"Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all." I Cor 12:4-6

"For the body is not one member, but many.
If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him." I Cor 12:14-18
Let me quickly answer your posts # 141 and 142, together.

I find your reply very confusing amadeus.

If all you wanted to say was that you do God's will, they go in peace and God bless you. I never would have arrived at this conclusion though as you had competing negative concerns about other believers involved in socio-politics and other national interests. And why you needed me in your reply to explain MY inquiries and concerns is beyond me. It just caused more confusion and even diminished the significance of writing these issues to you, openly and honestly.

Blessings,

APAK
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taken and amadeus

Reggie Belafonte

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2018
5,871
2,919
113
63
Brisbane
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Heck! I have a hard enough time trying to figure out what He is doing in my life so much of the time! :confused: Never mind what he is doing in teh whole world to accomplish His will ! We can guess, but guesses are not the will of God. they are us thinking we may know something we don't.



Well as you seem to be omniscient and pretend to know everything despite what people write. I won't anymore of my time responding to you.

When you believe I would write an answer you can write it for me as you pretend to know me better than I do.

Bye Bye!
The intentions that are in question. people like so are the like the ones who will not stand up for Jesus Christ.
It's all oh well lets sit around like mushrooms. we know nothing and no one knows nothing.

Do I claim to know everything or make any claim of being omniscient :rolleyes:.

As to Jesus Christ, it's His will is that you abide in him and him only, it's that's that simple and don't be led astray by the works and temptations of this world.

I am not claiming that it's you yourself, but that it's more to the point that it's the creations of delusions that have a hold on the majority, that I am on about and it irks me to see such topics just fobbed off hand with no real regard truly at all just because such is common line of though.
They claim to be the authority on an issue, yet they are truly only dilettante's on the subject who are only just going along with the flow or the trends.
Hey look at me I am politically correct, just to fit in with the majority of dupes.
Would not want to step out of line with the majority ? Oh that's what Jesus did :eek: maybe we should not do what he did because of this world is not of him. should we will live in fear like cowards not worthy of him, could one get to heaven by standing on the sideline ? remember Peter and the Cock crowing story. Boy I wonder who the Saints were ? Peter should of not bothered to turn around and Paul should of not bothered in all he did as well o_O ? that's Lukewarm Christianity for you nowadays. your saved by the great flying spaghetti monster.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus

Heart2Soul

Spiritual Warrior
Staff member
May 10, 2018
9,863
14,508
113
65
Tulsa
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You need to go back to the reason why the United States of America was founded, with a Constitution which guarantees liberty and justice for all. The pledge of allegiance also speaks of "one nation under God".
And to the Republic for which it stands...ONE NATION...UNDER GOD....WITH Liberty and Justice. .FOR ALL....
For anyone and all have these rights afforded to them....only some have decided they are above the Constitution....
We are first and foremost a REPUBLIC....yes there is some degree of a democracy as well but we are not A democracy.
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,490
31,653
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And to the Republic for which it stands...ONE NATION...UNDER GOD....WITH Liberty and Justice. .FOR ALL....
For anyone and all have these rights afforded to them....only some have decided they are above the Constitution....
We are first and foremost a REPUBLIC....yes there is some degree of a democracy as well but we are not A democracy.
When I began school as a 1st grader in 1949 [Harry Truman was President] I memorized that pledge without the words, "one nation under God". In 1954 while I was still in elementary school under President Dwight D. Eisenhower the "One nation under God" was officially added and from then until now that has been it. The "for all" was in there but it was never, in my experience, routinely and continuously practiced...
 

Heart2Soul

Spiritual Warrior
Staff member
May 10, 2018
9,863
14,508
113
65
Tulsa
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
When I began school as a 1st grader in 1949 [Harry Truman was President] I memorized that pledge without the words, "one nation under God". In 1954 while I was still in elementary school under President Dwight D. Eisenhower the "One nation under God" was officially added and from then until now that has been it. The "for all" was in there but it was never, in my experience, routinely and continuously practiced...
Praise God! It was there when I started school so good for Eisenhower!
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,997
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
All I know is everytime SCOTUS turns something down, it opens a new door for much bigger things.
Yes, SCOTUS, it was personal
By Leann Horrocks

The decision by SCOTUS not to take the Texas case was not just an abrogation of one of their few duties, it was a betrayal. Americans have been betrayed by an institution we believed in.

The justices, as all judges do, probably want to say, "It isn't personal." They couldn't be more wrong.

Judge Neil Gorsuch didn't have a hard time, but the other two Trump appointees sure did. We saw that and we fought for them. Many ordinary Americans demonstrated in the streets at their own physical peril; others lost their jobs supporting Justice Amy Coney Barrett and Justice Brett Kavanaugh. These patriots didn't take the easy way out -- they went out there for these people personally.

Justice Barrett's confirmation was a great source of hope for conservatives -- it meant the last institution standing had a chance. A chance of standing between ordinary Americans and the globalist barbarians at our gates.


When the call came, the three justices betrayed us. When the chips were down, they made not a single peep. Nothing. After all, they are home free -- a guaranteed cushy deal for the rest of their lives.

The people of Texas wanted Donald Trump to be president. So did 17 other states' people. So did the citizens of four cities that were the core of the Democrat theft strategy: Atlanta, Milwaukee, Detroit, and Philadelphia. The complainants in the Texas suit, if they could prove their case, were deprived of the president they voted for. This is a big loss.


Every day, the magnitude of the complainant's loss is being made more clear. Susan Rice back in the White House? Big tech oligarchs everywhere? A cross-dresser in the military leadership" (Do you find this accurate depiction offensive? Good!) As soon as they thought they were home free, the snakes came out of the woodwork and made their plans clear.

The goal is clear -- get the unelectable Harris into the presidency. Biden will be out; he and his family will be the subject of horrifying revelations of a special counsel investigation that will allow Harris to inoculate herself against blame for his demise. Globalist whispers in her ear will be the source of her policies. All complaints against her will be racist and sexist -- this worked before and it will work again.

Instead of standing in the way of this horror show, SCOTUS, especially the three newest justices, said something my U.S. Navy captain father used to say was common parlance in the upper ranks: "Pull up the gangplank, I'm aboard."

When your brief statement was released about how Texas' loss was not "cognizable" was released, we are left with the conclusion that you succumbed to Democrat bullies that threatened to pack your precious court. Breaking news -- they will anyway.

Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Barrett, you will have outcomes you may not see yet:
  • You will never regain your stature with the American people. There is nothing you can do about that.
  • You will languish in comfort, personally and professionally, but you will not be respected. There is nothing you can do about that.
  • You will have no credibility. There is nothing you can do about that.
  • You will know how we feel even though you think we are wrong. There is nothing you can do about that.
Ponder on these things and you might begin to understand how we feel.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/12/yes_scotus_it_was_personal.html
 
  • Like
Reactions: marks

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,184
9,752
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, SCOTUS, it was personal
By Leann Horrocks

The decision by SCOTUS not to take the Texas case was not just an abrogation of one of their few duties, it was a betrayal. Americans have been betrayed by an institution we believed in.

The justices, as all judges do, probably want to say, "It isn't personal." They couldn't be more wrong.

Judge Neil Gorsuch didn't have a hard time, but the other two Trump appointees sure did. We saw that and we fought for them. Many ordinary Americans demonstrated in the streets at their own physical peril; others lost their jobs supporting Justice Amy Coney Barrett and Justice Brett Kavanaugh. These patriots didn't take the easy way out -- they went out there for these people personally.

Justice Barrett's confirmation was a great source of hope for conservatives -- it meant the last institution standing had a chance. A chance of standing between ordinary Americans and the globalist barbarians at our gates.


When the call came, the three justices betrayed us. When the chips were down, they made not a single peep. Nothing. After all, they are home free -- a guaranteed cushy deal for the rest of their lives.

The people of Texas wanted Donald Trump to be president. So did 17 other states' people. So did the citizens of four cities that were the core of the Democrat theft strategy: Atlanta, Milwaukee, Detroit, and Philadelphia. The complainants in the Texas suit, if they could prove their case, were deprived of the president they voted for. This is a big loss.


Every day, the magnitude of the complainant's loss is being made more clear. Susan Rice back in the White House? Big tech oligarchs everywhere? A cross-dresser in the military leadership" (Do you find this accurate depiction offensive? Good!) As soon as they thought they were home free, the snakes came out of the woodwork and made their plans clear.

The goal is clear -- get the unelectable Harris into the presidency. Biden will be out; he and his family will be the subject of horrifying revelations of a special counsel investigation that will allow Harris to inoculate herself against blame for his demise. Globalist whispers in her ear will be the source of her policies. All complaints against her will be racist and sexist -- this worked before and it will work again.

Instead of standing in the way of this horror show, SCOTUS, especially the three newest justices, said something my U.S. Navy captain father used to say was common parlance in the upper ranks: "Pull up the gangplank, I'm aboard."

When your brief statement was released about how Texas' loss was not "cognizable" was released, we are left with the conclusion that you succumbed to Democrat bullies that threatened to pack your precious court. Breaking news -- they will anyway.

Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Barrett, you will have outcomes you may not see yet:
  • You will never regain your stature with the American people. There is nothing you can do about that.
  • You will languish in comfort, personally and professionally, but you will not be respected. There is nothing you can do about that.
  • You will have no credibility. There is nothing you can do about that.
  • You will know how we feel even though you think we are wrong. There is nothing you can do about that.
Ponder on these things and you might begin to understand how we feel.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/12/yes_scotus_it_was_personal.html
I know...
By their refusal to hear the case it will go to the congress.
Trump will win the re-election.

You remember, I'm the one who sees Paul as a wolf in sheep's clothing..
But there are things going on behind the scenes, or circumstances we are not aware of yet.
Sometimes a door has to close for another to be opened.

Something bigger than what we see is happening. It's got DC in panic mode.
Everyone is attacking everyone.
I think we are watching the reapers reap. Wheat and tares, good grapes bad grapes.
Not everything is as it seems.
Patience.

Hugs
 

Addy

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2020
4,288
4,467
113
61
Ontario
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
So have you received a revelation from God that the salvation of men is bound up in the salvation of the nation called the United States of America? The USA is already a godless and immoral nation. Is your plan going to change that by supporting the lesser of two evils? Since every man is a liar, which one should I believe is to do the most good and the least harm?

And there you have it... the entire crux of this mess.... Is America really a Christian nation? That is the issue that is being fought to the point of demanding and supporting the call of a Civil War. There has been complete trust placed in these evangelical pastors/"prophets" ... who have and keep proclaiming it's not over yet. Many of these "men of God" urging people to fight for what is right...

I doubt that people have a clue what all this civil un-rest could possibly boil down to... and none of it has to do with standing up for your FAITH...

Perhaps what God is actually doing is HUMBLING AMERICA.... for her arrogance... and hatred... as well as exposing the false prophets who simply wanted what they wanted.

I thought by coming to these forums... I would get more concise and true information regarding what is going on in the election... As it turns out... it is far more confusing here... not to mention way more toxic.

I pray that God's HOLY WILL be done... and that people would turn from their evil ways... humble themselves and commit themselves to GOD.

I will go back to watching the National News... and on January 20th... I will see who the president of the United States is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus and Rita
R

Rita

Guest
Since when did it become acceptable for Christians to choose lies over truth? The mainstream media all over the world are selectively broadcasting lies over truth.
Just because someone chooses to watch the news does not mean they are believing everything they hear or read. Look at all the rubbish that is posted on the forum, social media, you tube, news ect. It doesn’t mean it’s all believed. You presume that people can’t discern, dispel opinions from truth or see manipulation.
I believe the point being made is rather than listen to all the debating, all the arguing, all the speculation, Adoration will merely wait and see how it all works out in January rather than listen to all the opinions here, and please don’t convey that everything you post is proven to be true because it’s as much speculation and opinion as everything else that is stated here with regards to what is going on.
Rita
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus and marks

Addy

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2020
4,288
4,467
113
61
Ontario
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Since when did it become acceptable for Christians to choose lies over truth? The mainstream media all over the world are selectively broadcasting lies over truth.

The National news is a Canadian program that reports on the happenings of the day in CANADA... But you already know this as you are Canadian.
For the last few months... I have been watching it on my computer in the morning.... to get a GENERAL idea of what is happening with covid in this country. There is little to nil reporting on the United States.... I do not watch media news... therefore my views have not been "poisoned" as you have insinuated.

@Rita .... you expressed my heart on this matter excellently... The point is... I have decided that these forums are absolutely UNHELPFUL in trying to decipher what is truly happening... and I will stick to watching the NATIONAL until January 20th... where it will be revealed who the president of the United States is.

I once again reiterate that I pray for GOD's WILL to be done... Time will tell if it matches up with the evangelical prophets or not.

So... for what it's worth... I would not bother responding to this as I will not be returning to this thread to read any more posts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus and marks

historyb

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2011
2,990
2,701
113
52
in a house
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Since when did it become acceptable for Christians to choose lies over truth? The mainstream media all over the world are selectively broadcasting lies over truth.

That what happens when one sold one side of Christianity for life, a skewed view. Instead of standing up for belief modern evangelicalism has made sheep fit for the slaughter of the leftist lies. Modern people are cowards and will not stand for beliefs. Even though it was a movie this quote is becoming more true all the time:

“Is not this simpler? Is this not your natural state? It’s the unspoken truth of humanity that you crave subjugation. The bright lure of freedom diminishes your life’s joy in a mad scramble for power. For identity. You were made to be ruled. In the end, you will always kneel.” - Loki
 
  • Like
Reactions: Enoch111