The Bible teaches repentance unto confession, not confession unto repentance

[CadyandZoe]

Already have proven it by the Bible sufficiently for me to do it. Your choice is your own.

Well, if you think you have proven it, I'm unsure whether you know what proof is.

You claim that the Biblical meaning of "repent" involves action. According to the Lexicon, It involves a change of attitude. When I say "prove your answer" I am not asking you to do something that I am unwilling to do.

I give you Bible passages and explain them, quoting the actual text for you to examine. I told you about John the Baptist who spoke of "fruits" of repentance, which indicates actions to be done after one has changed his mind/attitude on a particular issue. We can review several instances of the term "repent" or "repentance" that couple a command to repent with an action to be taken after repentance.

For instance, John exhorted his people to "repent and be baptized" which involves a mental activity (repent) followed by an action (be baptized.) John also exhorted his kinsmen to "bear fruit in keeping with repentance." And the crowds asked him, "So what do we do?" They meant, "What do we do in light of the fact that we changed our minds?" In one instance, John spoke to tax collectors telling them not to collect more tax than was due. In another instance, he told soldiers "do not take any money by force."

The point is, we can demonstrate that repentance is a mental activity associated with a change of mind or a change of attitude. What follows is the process of "bearing fruit in keeping with repentance." This is not the same thing as saying "go and never sin again."

The Bible doctrine of repentance is from all sinning at once.

Okay, now you cite or quote scripture to support your point.

It's faith alone without works having anything to do with being saved and justified with God.

Paul argues that we are saved by faith apart from works and in that context "works" are Jewish religious rituals. One does not need to perform Jewish religious rituals in order to attain justification from God. The Protestant phrase "faith alone" came out of the Reformation and in that context "works" were Catholic religious rituals. Same song different verse.

You might find a sect of Christianity, claiming that we are justified by "mental ascent" alone, but I would not consider that doctrine to be Christian. As I pointed out earlier, Paul argues that repentance and fruits of repentance are included in the Christian Faith. (Romans 6) To be baptized "into Christ" is to become a disciple of Christ. And one of his fundamental teachings is that he died so that we might be free of sin. Paul rhetorically asks, "How shall we who died to sin, still live in it?"

If we continue to read, we will see that repentance and righteous living are included in our Faith.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I no longer argue the normal sense of the Bible against the senselessness of alternative doctrine and definitions.

After hearing from you, I also see how double heartedness is the result of your mind repentance.

The hearers change their minds about sin, but not their hearts from sinning. And so they now know the law of Christ, but don't do it.

Romans 7 is about hearers of the word only, that only changes their minds about sinning with the devil, but not their hearts from sinning against God.

Haven't you learned by now that I can't be baited? I claimed that double-heartedness is not found in Romans 7. Your only plausible rebuttal is to cite the verse. Can't you do that? Do you have access to a Bible? I can recommend a couple of online Bibles if you like.

Romans chapter 7 is in two parts. The first half of the chapter continues the latter half of chapter 6, wherein Paul makes an analogy between those seeking justification to a married woman. By Law, a married woman cannot seek a new husband until her first husband dies. By analogy, those seeking justification through the law won't seek another basis for justification until the law "dies." But once the law "dies" then a person is free to seek another basis for justification, which is by faith.

In the second half of Chapter 7, Paul explains that it isn't the Law that dies, because once the Law is perfectly understood, he dies instead. The Law doesn't die, he dies instead. By "death" he refers to the death sentence we all face because of our sin. During his time as a Pharisee, he thought that he was "alive" meaning "justified by God and not condemned to death." But once the law "came" he says, "I died and sin became alive."

In all this, Paul has argued that we are not being judged for what we do; we are being judged for who we are. Coming from a devout, holy righteous, blameless practitioner of the Mosaic Law, Paul had an epiphany. No amount of doing acts of righteousness could negate the fact that sin existed at the core of his being. He says of himself, "Sin dwells in me." Sin is a fundamental aspect of his being. Sin is a quality of his inherent nature.

When I was a Christian in High School, we referred to this as "having a tiger by the tail." You couldn't get rid of it but you couldn't let go of it either. All we can do is work to keep it contained with the help of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Ghada]

You don't seem to understand what you read from the Bible.

We both understand what we read in the Bible. I believe what I read and you don't. The Bible is the only book in the world that says how to sin not and live forever through Jesus Christ. And yet it's the only Book in the world with the most people not believing it, who say they do believe it.

No other Book in the world has so many people saying they believe it, and yet spend so much time arguing against it. More words have been written than the Book itself, just to say the Book really isn't true. That it's not possible to sin not and live forever through Jesus Christ.

The alternative book twice as big as the Bible says to sin less and live forever through another Christ.

I suspect that you are attempting to read the Bible through a doctrinal set of glasses.

Well, yeah. The Bible is the doctrine of God.

 

[CadyandZoe]

We both understand what we read in the Bible. I believe what I read and you don't. The Bible is the only book in the world that says how to sin not and live forever through Jesus Christ. And yet it's the only Book in the world with the most people not believing it, who say they do believe it.

No other Book in the world has so many people saying they believe it, and yet spend so much time arguing against it. More words have been written than the Book itself, just to say the Book really isn't true. That it's not possible to sin not and live forever through Jesus Christ.

The alternative book twice as big as the Bible says to sin less and live forever through another Christ.


Well, yeah. The Bible is the doctrine of God.

Did Jesus tell the woman "Go and sin no more"? Yes, he did. Did Jesus tell her how to do that? No, he didn't. Why? Because she didn't need to be taught how to stop sinning. We all know how to stop sinning. It isn't a matter of knowledge, it's a matter of our intent and commitments.

Did Paul teach that sin was a fundamental characteristic of human beings? Yes, he did. Moral failures are inevitable.

What is "glorification"?

 

[mailmandan]

Did Jesus tell the woman "Go and sin no more"? Yes, he did. Did Jesus tell her how to do that? No, he didn't. Why? Because she didn't need to be taught how to stop sinning. We all know how to stop sinning. It isn't a matter of knowledge, it's a matter of our intent and commitments.

Did Paul teach that sin was a fundamental characteristic of human beings? Yes, he did. Moral failures are inevitable.

What is "glorification"?

I often hear people who promote "sinless perfection" quote John 8:11, in which Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to "go and sin no more." Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery. Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit." PERFECTION is where the Lord's bar is set and NONE of us have cleared that bar. (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:10-12; 23; 1 John 1:8-10)

 

[Ghada]

a command to repent with an action to be taken after repentance.

"Repent after repentance". Sooner or later the give away of an unbiblical doctrine is by a nonsensical statement. The Bible never talks such double-speak nonsense.

This is nothing but man's doctrine of believing and repenting to be saved and justified first, with works of faith and acts of repentance only coming after.

It just compounds repentance alone without acts, to faith alone without works. And so the break down occurs with the the nonsense of repenting after repentance.

The Christians sinners gospel of being saved by faith alone without works, is the gospel of hearers and agreers only.

And the end result is always the same: Double heartedness toward God, with sometimes doing His will and sometimes not doing His will.

 

[Ghada]

Because of the efforts top change Bible teaching in so many ways, it sometimes becomes necessary to teach the obvious from the Bible.

In the Bible neither faith nor repentance is unto works. Bible repentance is an act, not a thought alone.

In the Bible there are no such words about repenting in the mind, nor repenting by changing thoughts. The reason is clear: because changing thoughts is only becoming more agreeable. God doesn't save nor justify any man by changing our mind to agree with Him, but only by changing our life to do His will.

But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.

He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.

Whether of them twain did the will of his father?

When the son went, is when he repented. Until he went, he did not repent.

With God in the Bible it's all about doing His will, not just about agreeing with His will or not. Only by doing God's will today, are we working in His vineyard. Only agreeing with the work is nothing to God. Doing the work agreeably is justified with God.

Not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

God always perfectly clarifies His own word: Repentance is from dead works, which is faith toward God.

Repenting to do God's will is having faith toward God. Faith toward God is an act toward God. Without the doing, there is no repenting nor faith toward God, that is justified by God.

Faith without works is dead, and repentance without acts is vain agreement only.

 

[mailmandan]

 

[Ghada]

Did Jesus tell the woman "Go and sin no more"? Yes, he did. Did Jesus tell her how to do that? No, he didn't. Why? Because she didn't need to be taught how to stop sinning.

Correct. Repenting from sinning is to stop the sinning.

We all know how to stop sinning.

Then why haven't you?

Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Rather than doing what you know to do, you preach against it and make up a new commandment to sin and always say you have sin instead of ceasing to sin.

Did Paul teach that sin was a fundamental characteristic of human beings? Yes, he did.

Your Paul of your doctrine yes. Not the Paul of the Bible.

Moral failures are inevitable.

So says all sinners such as yourself who know how to repent and sin not, but refuse to and instead minister sinning to the people.

You use yourself as a prime example of your ministry of sin.

 

[Ghada]

You claimed that Jesus commanded that we repent from lust, which he never did.

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

As a sinner with unrepented lust, you don't want to know what Jesus is talking about, when commanding us to repent within the heart first.

Unrepented sinners remain in their own darkness, that will not comprehend the light. You also say that light has never so shined on earth.

But he can't.

Your Paul can't. If Paul of the Bible ever did find himself like you, he certainly repented of it.

We know this, since Paul could not have possibly penned the words of God, while being like you, no more than God uses you to pen his pure words of life.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Only holy prophets and apostles ever penned God's own words.

And only repented holy saints believing God's words as written can teach them in righteousness. Unrepented sinners cannot possibly pen nor teach the holy doctrine of Christ, which first begins with Repent ye.

That is why repented believers teach unto righteousness of God, and you unrepented sinners teach unto unrighteousness of man. I teach all words of God as a repented saint with the light of true righteousness. You teach those same words as an unrepented sinner with your own light of continued unrighteousness.

Your ministering of 'inaccessible' lust and 'unceasable' sinning, is therefore exact opposite of Repent ye, and believe Jesus unto righteousness, and go and sin no more.

Your gospel is Believe unto your own justification, and repent in part, and continue sinning in part.

Conclusion: The doctrine of Christ in the Bible is not for unrepented sinners. The reason being that darkness will not comprehend the light. But will only change it to another kind of light of their own. And even at times denying the true light has ever even shined unto men.

Ex:

You claimed that Jesus commanded that we repent from lust, which he never did.

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

 

[Ghada]

-- Paul refers to this as his 'body of death'

Then you acknowledge lust and death within you, not the purity and life of Christ.

 

[Ghada]

Paul tells you that lust is located at an inaccessible part of our being

Your Paul tells a lot of things against the Bible.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Rather than cleansing within your own heart and spirit first, as Jesus and His' Paul commands, you instead make your own lust 'inaccessible' to your own soul and spirit, whereby you then make ceasing from sinning doctrinally 'impossible' as well.

God will judge our works, whether they be of our own lust, or by His will. Self-indoctrination for excuse not to repent of lusting and sinning, ends in the grave.

Don't you understand? If Paul could repent of his lust, he would do that.

He did do that. Through Christ Jesus.

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

He sought deliverance from knowing the law with the mind, while still transgressing the law with the body.

You make it a ministry of sin and death for life.

Romans 7 is a rebuke to your ministry of mind repentance, while continuing to sin bodily. It's the unrepented sinner's life of changing the mind about sin, without changing the heart from sinning.

You repent of 'enjoying' sin with the mind, but not of lusting from the heart to sin again. (Unenjoyably no doubt)

He confesses that his mind is right about the issue, but his mind is at war with his members.

No, a mind knowledge of the law is of no use to cease transgressing the law.

So long as his heart does not repent of lusting first, even as the Lord commands, then hearers only are not doers of the word.

 

[Ghada]

He confesses that his mind is right about the issue, but his mind is at war with his members.

Neither the Bible nor Paul of the Bible ever blames the guiltless natural body made by Christ, for men sinning with their own flesh.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Only the most childish people want to hold their own bodies responsible for what they do in life, as though the trouble is in the body, and not in their own hearts. They, are rightly mocked by the world of mature adults, that take responsibility for what they do on earth.

It's you that teach another Paul of another book of your own making, by taking Romans 7 of the Bible as your very own go-to gospel manual for sinful living.

Your mind is made right about sin and death, but you refuse to repent of lusting from an unchanged heart. And so you make effective spiritual warfare against sin and death 'inaccessible' to your spirit.

Christ does not make sinful bodies of flesh, neither of man nor animals alike. And the devil has not become a Maker of anything on earth.

The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

This is another example of how them in darkness will not comprehend the light of Christ. He is the Maker of all things, and makes all things good, and without Him is nothing made on earth. Yet you say He is the Maker of sin on earth in sinful bodies of flesh and blood.

Your inner darkness of unrepented lust, willfully blinds you to the truth. When you teach man has bodies made of sin, then you teach Christ as the Maker of sinful bodies. You teach a god and creator that is of the devil, not the only true God and Maker of all things, who lightens every man coming into the world.

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The gospel and doctrine of Jesus Christ is not for unrepented sinners, whose only word they have spoken to them from the Bible is, Repent ye.

 

[Ghada]

The concept of "doing righteousness through him" is not a Biblical concept. That is a false doctrine.

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

And so once again you show how your heart of lust does not believe in something that you cannot do, because you repent not.

I'm losing interest in your unbelief in the Bible.

But I asked you about Titus, which clearly contradicts your point of view. I asked you to prove your point of view in light of what Paul said in his epistle to Titus.

Useless to quote Bible to people that openly oppose it.

We are NOT saved on the basis of deeds. Period.

Justified by it. No salvation without justification.

Whether our motive is pure or corrupted, we are not saved on the basis of our deeds.

Your motives are always corrupted by lust unrepented of.

It's the reason you openly oppose the Bible.

The purity of motive doesn't enter into it.

More unbelief.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place? He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.

Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

Your unrepented corrupt heart of lust keeps your mind carnal, and blind to the truth of the Spirit of life through Christ Jesus.

Now that you are an open unbeliever in the Bible, then argument with you is as vain as arguing with the world.

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

 

[Ghada]

We call this circular logic. In your view, a man must repent from a pure heart before God will give him a pure heart.

That's true for your wrong teaching of what I say. Once again your darkened heart cannot comprehend the light of the Bible nor even teaching of that light. It's not possible for you to even accurately quote the teacher's words of the Bible.

There is no need of repentance from a pure heart, in whom is no lust to sin.

Once a sinner repents of His sinning, the heart is changed by God from that of lust of the world, to that of purity in Christ Jesus.

That change is the circumcision of Christ, which we have by repenting for our sinning from the heart.

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

God commands all men everywhere to do our part in being circumcised of Christ, which is our part to first be saved and justified by Christ.

Repenting is what we do first, that Christ may circumcise our heart from lust of the world.

For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

Guarding our hearts from lust, is what then keeps our circumcision by the Spirit of Christ.

This is the gospel light and promise to all men, that repent of their sinning, in order to believe Jesus unto doing His righteousness from a pure heart.

It's what you call false and the curse of man's works alone.

 

[CadyandZoe]

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

As a sinner with unrepented lust, you don't want to know what Jesus is talking about, when commanding us to repent within the heart first.

Unrepented sinners remain in their own darkness, that will not comprehend the light. You also say that light has never so shined on earth.



Your Paul can't. If Paul of the Bible ever did find himself like you, he certainly repented of it.

We know this, since Paul could not have possibly penned the words of God, while being like you, no more than God uses you to pen his pure words of life.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Only holy prophets and apostles ever penned God's own words.

And only repented holy saints believing God's words as written can teach them in righteousness. Unrepented sinners cannot possibly pen nor teach the holy doctrine of Christ, which first begins with Repent ye.

That is why repented believers teach unto righteousness of God, and you unrepented sinners teach unto unrighteousness of man. I teach all words of God as a repented saint with the light of true righteousness. You teach those same words as an unrepented sinner with your own light of continued unrighteousness.

Your ministering of 'inaccessible' lust and 'unceasable' sinning, is therefore exact opposite of Repent ye, and believe Jesus unto righteousness, and go and sin no more.

Your gospel is Believe unto your own justification, and repent in part, and continue sinning in part.

Conclusion: The doctrine of Christ in the Bible is not for unrepented sinners. The reason being that darkness will not comprehend the light. But will only change it to another kind of light of their own. And even at times denying the true light has ever even shined unto men.

Ex:

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

And so once again you show how your heart of lust does not believe in something that you cannot do, because you repent not.

I'm losing interest in your unbelief in the Bible.

Useless to quote Bible to people that openly oppose it.



Justified by it. No salvation without justification.

Your motives are always corrupted by lust unrepented of.

It's the reason you openly oppose the Bible.

More unbelief.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place? He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.

Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

Your unrepented corrupt heart of lust keeps your mind carnal, and blind to the truth of the Spirit of life through Christ Jesus.

Now that you are an open unbeliever in the Bible, then argument with you is as vain as arguing with the world.

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

You are taking verses out of context in order to make them say what you want them to say. This is why you don't understand what is being said.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

You are taking verses out of context in order to make them say what you want them to say. This is why you don't understand what is being said.

We have a few of these kind here. They ONLY know what they think they know and are unwilling to hear the truth of God's word. Ever learning but unwilling to come to the knowledge of truth.
Truly gagging at gnats while swallowing camels.
Broken cisterns refusing the POTTER at his will to transform them.
God did once wink at ignorance but no more for he sent Jesus, whom said "I am the way, the truth and the life,", but they refuse.

 

[Ghada]

To repent of sin doesn't simply mean to stop sinning.

I'm not talking about your ideas. I'm talking about the Bible.

Rather, it entails changing one's perspective about the harm and evil that comes with sinning and resolving to avoid it as much as possible in the future.

Resolutions are for new year's day, not the day of the Lord.

 

[Ghada]

It does not necessarily follow that when I admit my lust, that I also reject purity of heart. The one does not follow from the other. But purity of heart is not the opposite of lust as you suggest. Purity of Heart, as K. wrote, is to will one thing.

I'm also not talking about 'k' ideas, but the Bible only.

Sincerity of heart is not necessarily purity of heart. Purity is without lust of uncleanness. Sincerity is about single minded intent.

It's never wrong to be pure of heart, but we can be sincerely wrong in our intents of heart.

This is Bible teaching.

K. illustrated the principle in a couple of ways, but to be brief, let's consider the woman who wants to marry a rich man.

When a woman courts a rich man, we assume one of at least two possibilities: 1) she loves him for his heart and mind, or 2) She is attracted to his money and power. A woman with a pure heart will love the man only; a double-minded woman will desire both the man AND his money and if the man should lose all of his money in the stock market, divorce will suddenly be a consideration.

This is also humanist psychology. I only teach the Bible.

The pure hearted saint does not Biblically consider divorce except in lawful NT cases of death, adultery, and desertion.

And any pure hearted saint that does not consider the man or woman with what they bring to the marriage table, is behaving as foolishly as a star-struck world.

 

[Ghada]

we first need to repent of unbelief.

This is one of things that sounds good, but isn't found in the Bible. The Bible never speaks of repentance in terms of belief or thoughts being changed. Unbelief is not repented of. Sinning is repented of to have faith toward God. (Heb 6:1)

People who have not heard the gospel are not unbelievers, but only ignorant of the truth. Hearers that do not repent of sinning, become the unbelievers, which cannot be repented of.

Repentance with God is always an act of change. It's the same with faith toward God, that is never alone without doing it.

After that we begin repenting of specific sins,

Bible repentance is of all sinning, including lusting within the heart.

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Afterward, repenting of specific sins can come, if we sin.

and some of that may come as an initial gift of grace in the beginning of our walk and for other sins the repentance comes through being washed and instructed in the word.

You've unfortunately have it backwards here. Washing comes by repentance. If we confess sin with godly sorrow, then He washes us clean.

Being washed first by faith alone without repenting first, is another gospel than that of Jesus Christ.

We repent to have faith toward God, that we may be washed newborn clean with all things in heart and life now being harmless and blameless of God.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God,

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And so far as 'learning' the word to repent, who has to learn not to fornicate? Not to be drunken? Not to steal and blaspheme? Not to be a cursing liar? These things are all repented at once, so that we are also washed and sanctified at once, from all such unrighteous works of the flesh.

Being saved and washed by new faith alone, with piecemeal repentance to follow, is not the pure religion of Jesus Christ in the Bible.

Progressive Christianity to believe unto saving reconciliation first, with repentance following to only sin less in life, is made by unrepented Christian sinners.