The Bible.

[FHII]

Sorry but really ? That's rich....I truly think you need to spend a little time in prayer over that statement.

That is not an outrageous statement when taken in context. I was not saying we figured God out in general. I was speaking of the making of our Bible. God gave his final revelation and commission to John around 96 AD. He finished giving out ccmmissions and he finished the Bible. We can debate about the dates, but it was in 367 AD that we had a form of what we call the Bible today. Nearly 300 years. It took time not only to dodge persecution but to sort out forgeries, fakes, heretical writings and books that weren't really inspired.

God already finished. It took man 270 years to catch up to what he had already done and to figure out what exactly was his word and what wasn't. That isn't saying we figured God out or even figured out what he was saying in the Bible.

So barring misunderstanding what I said or you believing some books in the bible aren't inspired (or omitted books are inspired) I don't see a reason for your objection.

 

[pia]

I really didn't want to have this conversation with you, but when you say the bible is not enough

I am merely totally gob smacked at everyone who says they don't want to get to KNOW the real Jesus, the one they read and study about all day long..... I have not ONCE said that the Bible wasn't enough, merely pointing out that He has more to give us, if we are willing. One example :" To he who has EARS to HEAR, more will be given."...Not a demand, but a wonderful offer...
It's so tiresome that people make these comments like you just did, and it becomes very clear, that you skim over what I write and don't give it any real thought and don't compare it with what you read....Just not interested in the real resurrected Christ for yourself and that's fine, it is totally your choice...... Just don't do to me, what you just accused me of doing to you.

 

[pia]

Let God write the truth in us rather than taking down as final what our logical minds might tell us...

Hello Amedeus.....A HUGE amen Brother ! Yes I recall you saying that you understood German, which is really good as you have a 'front row seat' so to speak on the very first language other than Latin, which the Bible was translated into.
I remember when I first realized that the word 'Kirche' had been used ( meaning the physical temple ) instead of 'Ecclesia' which literally means 'the called out ones' ( thus an assembly of believers, called by God ).....Makes a big difference and has made a ton of believers come up against each other because of it.
I was brought up speaking Danish which can be similar to German in some bits....Danes also use the term 'Kirke' which again is the description of a physical structure....I actually learned German for 4 years at school, as I didn't leave Denmark till I was 16 years old, but here in Australia they learned French before German, so when I came here it was all so very different.
Last night it had occurred to me that the way we speak of the Word coming alive when we read it in the Bible, can be understood another way....
We, who believe in the living Christ and the Living Word and who have received His Holy Spirit, have the LIVING Word ALIVE in us, through Him.....We don't have awareness of ALL the Truth all at once, but He will reveal it to us little by little..
So when we do read something in the pages of the Bible, which IS TRUTH, The Spirit of Truth reacts within us, and we feel that surge of Life, which comes with it.....Thereby we see it as the word on the page coming to life, when it is merely TRUTH, which because we have access to the Spirit of Truth, being recognized within us , recognized by the very author of it.
Thank you for not ignoring all I have written about my love for the Bible, I just believe that men need to be careful what they demand others to believe, from whatever understanding they think they have of it...
What a wonderful world we could have lived in by now, if all those, over the past 2000 years, who became believers in Jesus, could have just done what He said and come to Him, received The Holy Spirit and then been in complete unity through the Spirit.......But as Jesus warned, evil men would come in and sow discord and lies and try to bring them into bondage once again.
What an awful shame just how many people got caught up in all that and still do to this day....So in that way the enemy SEEMS to have succeeded in that, but I know by now that God has 'aces' up His sleeves, of which we know nothing....Thankfully.
Oh my.......ALL the glory truly belongs to Him and to Him alone....He shouldn't have to share His place with any amount of temples, or a pope or a deified Mary or a bunch of so called 'saints' ( a true believer in Christ is a saint ), or any of the hundreds of books written on His life, His purpose and everything else.
I do love the Bible though and it constantly reminds me of the saying :" Jesus, the same yesterday , today and tomorrow"........almost every time I read it, I find something I hadn't seen or understood before, and sometimes I can hear His voice pointing something out, or asking me a question in relation to what I am reading....The realization of all the people who have gone before us, who have ALSO received revelation from Him, some of which were written down for posterity.......PROVES the Word in there about Him always staying the same, and ought to inspire us to go to Him for more....It is so wonderful when He takes us to a place in the Bible and we see the very proof right there in front of us, written down by another believer 2000 years ago, astonishing isn't it ?
Thanks again 'Amedeus', always a delight reading your posts. Very concise and informative and most of all easy to follow. I for one appreciate that, that it doesn't get so over learned that the rest of us can't follow it lol.
Blessings to you and to your dear wife Pia

 

[amadeus]

I guess I'm not as blessed as you are. All I have is my bible and the Holy Spirit to guide me through those second hand accounts.

And here I thought...

o

Take it slow, Job! Each of us has only what God has given him. The differences between us should never be a bone of contention between us. If it is, then we need to back up and talk to God about it. Remember these words:

"Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me." John 21:21-22

What cannot set another person's walk with God. If you really believe that a person so wrong, once you have stated your case why not leave in the hands of God? If it wrong, is God not able to handle it? If it is right remember these wise words of Gamaliel:

"And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God." Acts 5:38-39

 

[amadeus]

@pia
Thank you for your kind words and blessings for my wife. She is healing slowly, but definitely on the mend from her surgery.

All we can do here on these questions people ask and the problems they have regarding His Word is keep on trusting God and ultimately leaving it all in His hands. He can do it... and maybe sometimes He will use you or me to let someone see a little bit of Light.

On Sunday mornings, more often than not, I teach or preach in our little assembly here in Oklahoma. On Wednesdays when the pastor is gone out of town I'll teach a Bible study. I used to believe I had to have at least an outline or some notes or some such thing to be able to teach or preach. I knew that that should not be necessary and I began to pray for His help in it.

Somewhere along the way He finally helped me to really put it in His hands, I stopped with that prepared stuff most of the time. [Sometimes He gives me verses before hand to read on make notes on, but that does not happen very often.] I will nearly always read a verse or several verses from the Bible for the benefit of the congregation so they can read the verses themselves, but then once He gets hold of me, the words sometimes seem to just flow from my mouth saying things that I did not even think of beforehand.

My preparation is my reading and studying and praying each morning to start my day, but it is never done with the purpose of preparing a sermon or an outline or any such thing. It is simply my time with God.

 

[amadeus]

I prefer to confront the individual. That's how I'm wired.

o

So then talk to God about your wiring.

 

[pia]

@Job

I would say it is the rejection of The Living Word of God which brings a person to destruction...Those who take it upon themselves to lead others purely by their understanding of what has been written is a GROSS error and a misuse of what was written.
The Holy Spirit was supposed to lead us and guide us into ALL the truth, not men's attempt

Hey Job...I just came across this post I wrote which you quoted somewhere else, accusing me of speaking against you for using The Bible AND the leading of the Holy Spirit....Which I most certainly did not...
Many many times I have made it abundantly clear, that as long as men are being lead by the Holy Spirit in order to
understand and subsequently try to pass on ANY truth from the Bible to others, that is the right way to go !!! Have I not ?????
I have very much enjoyed some of what you have written and have even requested of you to hear more, but you didn't respond to that.
You have stayed very much on the 'cool' side, not much warmth detected from you, so where is the LOVE Job ?
It's all fine teaching other men the understanding of the Bible, but the call was for us to "Love others as I have loved you."So far I have been unaware of if and how you do this in your walk with Him ? In particular because you too, along with a couple of others on the forum, just want to belittle Jesus' ability to go and to do what so ever He wishes and manifest Himself to whom so ever He wishes and trying to 'command' that He must ONLY do or say the very same words He spoke two centuries ago, which happens to have been written down.
Who is ANY man, to try to tell the Lord what He can and cannot do? Is allowed to and not allowed to do or to say ?
Heavens above !!.............. Really really try to think on that a little and hopefully even pray and listen for the Holy Spirit within you...Perhaps He will lead you to a written section of the Bible, perhaps He will speak to you as one of Gods new Creation....Either way, I would hope that you would want to KNOW, what He thinks, feels and has to say about this matter? Or any other matter for that matter.........
I sure do, and I don't think that gives you the right to accuse me of things I didn't do or say, or in any way to belittle my wonderful experiences with Him.....I get the idea that some on this forum wants me to feel embarrassed over having met Jesus face to face.
Well I am not nor will I ever be that !!! I am super humbled over His willingness and ability in responding to even someone like me, a total nobody, with no strength of my own, with no intelligence of my own ( in comparison with those who have studied for years to in Bible schools and alike ), who had really zero knowledge of Him or the Bible.......................
Someone who hadn't given Him the time of day until I needed rescuing from a black void, where I found myself one night..............And He did, He DID rescue me, save me and He set me on the right path, even though religious folks have tried their best in getting me to try to veer away from Him and into whichever thing they were following after instead, over the years...
So, apologies if I am a little sensitive when it comes to what some people claim. But as you can clearly see, even you don't read what I write and you also misquote me, and claim I write things which I don't.....So ???
Are we still able to come to a place of peace in Him ?

 

[pia]

@Job

Nonsense Job, that's a cop out.......Do you not believe Him to be a Resurrected being ? A real being with flesh and bone ? Well I sure didn't, until confronted with it.....
Are you trying to belittle me over that ?
I have been saying all along, that as long as people do it ( go through the Bible ) with Him or with The Holy spirit, that is the way to the Truth, how can you have ignored all the times I have made that clear....???
Another is :" Blessed is he who has believed and yet not seen."
Don't belittle what / who saved me and set me on the path to the Truth......

Hey Job.......Here is another example of how I made it clear about the Bible and The Holy Spirit...this is yet another post you did not respond to. Although I do believe you got on to a bit about Jesus not being flesh and blood...Again !!! Clearly NOT what I stated there...
May I ask ? Why are you doing this to me exactly ? Why are you trying to pull me away from my 'immovable' position of believing in Jesus the Christ, my Redeemer, my Savior.......The One who showed me that I am loved beyond anything I could have ever even begun to imagine........Was 'precious' to Him....ME ???? This ( in my view at the time ) useless person, good for nothing and nobody ( I had been through a few years of not being able to do much because of spinal surgeries ) He made it clear how He felt about me AND everyone else....He made His love for us clear, more than any other thing that night as well as His utter faithfulness toward us.
That is all I really want to pass on to people, telling them how much He loves them and how I got to KNOW that, but most others are only content if they can be in some form of debate over what He said and what He meant and / or which denomination is right, or which leader or prophet is right and on and on the merry go around goes.
Crud, I had forgotten to hit post and went to reply to something else, so I hope it doesn't tack on as I always have a hard time deleting anything out of this box

 

[pia]

@Job

Nonsense Job, that's a cop out.......Do you not believe Him to be a Resurrected being ? A real being with flesh and bone ? Well I sure didn't, until confronted with it.....
Are you trying to belittle me over that ?
I have been saying all along, that as long as people do it ( go through the Bible ) with Him or with The Holy spirit, that is the way to the Truth, how can you have ignored all the times I have made that clear....???
Another is :" Blessed is he who has believed and yet not seen."
Don't belittle what / who saved me and set me on the path to the Truth......

Hey Job.......Here is another example of how I made it clear about the Bible and The Holy Spirit...this is yet another post you did not respond to. Although I do believe you got on to a bit about Jesus not being flesh and blood...Again !!! Clearly NOT what I stated there...
May I ask ? Why are you doing this to me exactly ? Why are you trying to pull me away from my 'immovable' position of believing in Jesus the Christ, my Redeemer, my Savior.......The One who showed me that I am loved beyond anything I could have ever even begun to imagine........Was 'precious' to Him....ME ???? This ( in my view at the time ) useless person, good for nothing and nobody ( I had been through a few years of not being able to do much because of spinal surgeries ) He made it clear how He felt about me AND everyone else....He made His love for us clear, more than any other thing that night as well as His utter faithfulness toward us.
That is all I really want to pass on to people, telling them how much He loves them and how I got to KNOW that, but most others are only content if they can be in some form of debate over what He said and what He meant and / or which denomination is right, or which leader or prophet is right and on and on the merry go around goes.

 

[pia]

@FHII .
In relation to your reply to the Bible you say:" It took men 270 years to catch up to what He had said etc." all I'm saying is....Why???? They had the Holy Spirit right there with them all that time.
Can't you see there is something amiss in all that ? Also not to forget that the Roman Catholic church simply didn't allow people to read the Bible or to know that God had sent the Holy Spirit to be received by anyone who asked, and they didn't know to ask, because in their religion things like that were reserved for the pope and or the cardinals or whatever.
It wasn't till the 15th century I think that the Bible was even translated into a language others could understand...first it was in German then into English and on from there.
I am not on the forum to cause any ill wind, I just think it is a shame how often the Holy Spirit, as such a truly precious gift from our Father, is kind of put to the back, ignored or not much taught about , as compared with what OTHER people, a long time ago, experienced with and through the Holy Spirit.....It didn't have a use by date.......The church insisted it ended with the apostles, but that was never meant to be so, as we can thankfully now see today, that He has been able to bring His Holy Spirit back into focus in some circles, and we see the truth manifested, of Him being the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. The Father, the Holy Spirit and Jesus being ONE, and he in us and us in Him......AWESOME !!!!

 

[pia]

Ok, show me something you learned from your meeting with Jesus that isn't covered in His Word.

o

Well I didn't have a single clue about the Bible for a long time even after, and I haven't read it all, so I really can't answer that... Certainly there were very personal things which could not be in the Bible, and things about my then 5 year old daughter.
But as far as the things I have shared with others, they are usually the ones showing me, where something is covered in the Bible..which I have found is great for them , it really helps them which is terrific, feeds faith, it also helps me to find things to seek Him about, exciting things I didn't know before......... But some of it doesn't matter to me as much as to them, because I don't doubt Him either way, it wouldn't matter to me now, if something had been written or not, because I know who He is and that I can trust Him 100% at all times with absolutely everything. If I really need to know something at a particular time I am sure He has it all under control, so I don't have to try to be ahead of Him.
Can you at all see where I am coming from Job ? I am in no way against you, all along all I have been saying is, that I am against those who claim themselves prophets or teachers and then turn out to be nothing more than learned men in the flesh trying to explain spiritual things, just because they have read a Bible.
I have personally met quite a few people like that, and to see the misery they have brought upon some people, it's just unacceptable.

 

[pia]

It is simply my time with God.

Hallelujah......Is it not just the best thing in this world, to be able to have fellowship with Him, to have time together...just so precious.
I am glad to hear your wife is mending. I know it can take a long time. I was a lot younger when I had my 2nd lower back surgery and it took just on a year then, so I think she is doing well to be doing already what she is. Mind you perhaps the surgery techniques have improved since back then, I recall you mentioned staples, I had no such thing lol.
She will be fine, slow and steady, little by little....Praise His name.....

 

[pia]

I need for you to respond to that post.

If you can't or won't, then I believe we're done here.

o

I did

 

[tabletalk]

@Job


Hey Job...I just came across this post I wrote which you quoted somewhere else, accusing me of speaking against you for using The Bible AND the leading of the Holy Spirit....Which I most certainly did not...
Many many times I have made it abundantly clear, that as long as men are being lead by the Holy Spirit in order to
understand and subsequently try to pass on ANY truth from the Bible to others, that is the right way to go !!! Have I not ?????
I have very much enjoyed some of what you have written and have even requested of you to hear more, but you didn't respond to that.
You have stayed very much on the 'cool' side, not much warmth detected from you, so where is the LOVE Job ?
It's all fine teaching other men the understanding of the Bible, but the call was for us to "Love others as I have loved you."So far I have been unaware of if and how you do this in your walk with Him ? In particular because you too, along with a couple of others on the forum, just want to belittle Jesus' ability to go and to do what so ever He wishes and manifest Himself to whom so ever He wishes and trying to 'command' that He must ONLY do or say the very same words He spoke two centuries ago, which happens to have been written down.
Who is ANY man, to try to tell the Lord what He can and cannot do? Is allowed to and not allowed to do or to say ?
Heavens above !!.............. Really really try to think on that a little and hopefully even pray and listen for the Holy Spirit within you...Perhaps He will lead you to a written section of the Bible, perhaps He will speak to you as one of Gods new Creation....Either way, I would hope that you would want to KNOW, what He thinks, feels and has to say about this matter? Or any other matter for that matter.........
I sure do, and I don't think that gives you the right to accuse me of things I didn't do or say, or in any way to belittle my wonderful experiences with Him.....I get the idea that some on this forum wants me to feel embarrassed over having met Jesus face to face.
Well I am not nor will I ever be that !!! I am super humbled over His willingness and ability in responding to even someone like me, a total nobody, with no strength of my own, with no intelligence of my own ( in comparison with those who have studied for years to in Bible schools and alike ), who had really zero knowledge of Him or the Bible.......................
Someone who hadn't given Him the time of day until I needed rescuing from a black void, where I found myself one night..............And He did, He DID rescue me, save me and He set me on the right path, even though religious folks have tried their best in getting me to try to veer away from Him and into whichever thing they were following after instead, over the years...
So, apologies if I am a little sensitive when it comes to what some people claim. But as you can clearly see, even you don't read what I write and you also misquote me, and claim I write things which I don't.....So ???
Are we still able to come to a place of peace in Him ?

It's me again, trying to explain why some people (like Job) may be uncomfortable with your statements about God. You've probably heard these things before, I imagine.
You said above: "...trying to 'command' that He must ONLY do or say the very same words He spoke two centuries ago, which happens to have been written down." The Bible-thumpers (me included) don't believe (by faith) that the collection of books which is called the Bible was happenstance. Maybe I am nit-picking about your word happens, but I think it describes your over-all approach to the Scriptures. You are overwhelmed with the man you see face to face, and he is your authority, before any other Scripture or word anyone else proclaims. Please correct me if I am faulty concerning these things.
One issue is "unity of the Spirit". It seems to me that you believe, and worship, a different Jesus than the one presented in the Scriptures. Therefore, I don't think I have unity of the Spirit with you, even though I do not have all knowledge or even know for certain if you are saved or not. So, if there is no unity then discussion is limited, as far as I am concerned. But, there are many others on these forums who do believe they have unity of the Spirit with you.
Hope that makes some sense.

 

[amadeus]

Well I didn't have a single clue about the Bible for a long time even after, and I haven't read it all, so I really can't answer that... Certainly there were very personal things which could not be in the Bible, and things about my then 5 year old daughter.
But as far as the things I have shared with others, they are usually the ones showing me, where something is covered in the Bible..which I have found is great for them , it really helps them which is terrific, feeds faith, it also helps me to find things to seek Him about, exciting things I didn't know before......... But some of it doesn't matter to me as much as to them, because I don't doubt Him either way, it wouldn't matter to me now, if something had been written or not, because I know who He is and that I can trust Him 100% at all times with absolutely everything. If I really need to know something at a particular time I am sure He has it all under control, so I don't have to try to be ahead of Him.
Can you at all see where I am coming from Job ? I am in no way against you, all along all I have been saying is, that I am against those who claim themselves prophets or teachers and then turn out to be nothing more than learned men in the flesh trying to explain spiritual things, just because they have read a Bible.
I have personally met quite a few people like that, and to see the misery they have brought upon some people, it's just unacceptable.

To help others hopefully understand better your experience a bit of mine might fit in here. I was drawn to the Lord in 1976 at age 32 and began for the first time in my life to read the Bible. I fell in love with the Bible and although I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost. I only though I knew what that meant. For years and read and studied and figured that eventually I would get very close to God by doing that. It wasn't all for nought, but alone it would have been...

In the early 1990's I backslid. I stopped reading the Bible and with my wife went my own way instead of God's Way. I won't give all the details here, but in about 2001 I really wanted to come back to God. For more than a year I tried to come back and eventually He drew me back in... If He was not in it I could not have done. What I learned that time which I should have learned the first time is just what the Holy Ghost can do... and what we cannot do without the Holy Ghost. All my Bible learning from those early years [1976 to early 1990's] was effectively lost to my brain. I had been able to quote a multitude of scriptures. Now God has been writing His Word in my heart as I read, but none of the verses but the very shortest stick in my mind anymore. I can quote "Jesus wept" and "Pray without ceasing" and a few other similar ones short in length, but even John 3:16 causes me to stumble when I try to quote it word for word.

People see me quoting scriptures here but that is under the direction of the Holy Ghost. When I need it, I know where it is and I copy and pasted it from an Bible program in my computer. I do the same thing when I preach or teach at my local assembly. I read my verses or paraphrase them because the exact words won't come to my mouth otherwise. But, I know that God is working in me. It is not my brain like I thought in those early years that's important. It is and must be my heart.

Give God the glory!

 

[pia]

It's me again, trying to explain why some people (like Job) may be uncomfortable with your statements about God. You've probably heard these things before, I imagine.
You said above: "...trying to 'command' that He must ONLY do or say the very same words He spoke two centuries ago, which happens to have been written down." The Bible-thumpers (me included) don't believe (by faith) that the collection of books which is called the Bible was happenstance. Maybe I am nit-picking about your word happens, but I think it describes your over-all approach to the Scriptures. You are overwhelmed with the man you see face to face, and he is your authority, before any other Scripture or word anyone else proclaims. Please correct me if I am faulty concerning these things.
One issue is "unity of the Spirit". It seems to me that you believe, and worship, a different Jesus than the one presented in the Scriptures. Therefore, I don't think I have unity of the Spirit with you, even though I do not have all knowledge or even know for certain if you are saved or not. So, if there is no unity then discussion is limited, as far as I am concerned. But, there are many others on these forums who do believe they have unity of the Spirit with you.
Hope that makes some sense.

A different Jesus ???????

 

[pia]

But, I know that God is working in me.

Thanks Amedeus....yep that's the size of it ! So we two came from opposite directions but He has brought us extremely close together in His Truth, just the way it was supposed to be.
Hallelujah and rightly so ALL THE GLORY TO GOD.......
Thank you so much for sharing that

 

[amadeus]

Thanks Amedeus....yep that's the size of it ! So we two came from opposite directions but He has brought us extremely close together in His Truth, just the way it was supposed to be.
Hallelujah and rightly so ALL THE GLORY TO GOD.......
Thank you so much for sharing that

We serve a great God!

 

[pia]

We serve a great God!

That we most certainly do...Much greater than we are even able to imagine. I am sure you too have come up against simply not finding words appropriate enough to describe His Wonder..

 

[amadeus]

That we most certainly do...Much greater than we are even able to imagine. I am sure you too have come up against simply not finding words appropriate enough to describe His Wonder..

Amen, sister!