The Biblical Basis for Catholic Distinctives

[BreadOfLife]

So then the church will tell you which are mortal and which are venial. And mortal sin severs your relationship with God, and must be confessed to a priest, and receive priestly absolution (I know we haven't talked about that yet), to restore relationship, is that the correct understanding?

So the reasonable thinking to me is that sins would need to be confessed in detail to the priest, so he could help sort which may be mortal and which venial. Again, am I thinking on the right path here?

Much love!

How did YOU learn what sin is? The Bible?
WHO told you which Books belog in the Bible?

We don't just read and guess theese things.
We learn from those in the Church who have been appointed to teach us (1 Cor. 12:28, 1 Thess. 5:12, 1 Tim. 5:17).

 

[BreadOfLife]

If by bishop you mean 'overseer', yes.
Another was appointed to take his place, in having witnessed Jesus' ministry and death and resurrection.
Are you saying after Matthias died, someone else was chosen for his place, so there were always 12, continuing to today?

When Stephen was stoned, another was chosen for the 7 deacons, so that those 7 continue today? How far do you apply this? Or is it just to Peter and the pope?

Much love!

Bishop/Overseer are synonyms.
Thatr's what a Bishop is.

As to your question above in RED - NO.
The Apostles - the original Bishops - continued to appoint Bishops for every region that they ministered to. In 1 Tim. 3, Paul explains the criteria for these Bishops that they were ordaining.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Melchezedeck

And all the others, with the exception of Judas.

Where else do you see someone chosen to fill another person's vacant spot? I'm not saying we don't do that for instance with a group of elders in a church, if one leaves, we may choose another. But we may also choose another if the church grows, or, we may not chose to replace a leaving elder if the church has become smaller. It's not a matter of succession per se, it's simply proper ministry.

Much love!

Thgis simply isn't true.
ALL of the Apostles's offices were successive.

Tell me - why is history ONLY true for the secular world - but NOT for the Church? For example - history tells us that Ignatius succeeded Peter as Bishop of Antioch.

Irenaeus, writing in the 2nd century in his treatise, Against Heresies, lists ALL of the Bishops of Rome from his time, going ALL the way back to Peter. This is attested to in the Protestent work, The Oxford Dictionary of Popes, written by eminent Protestant hiustorian, J.N.D. Kelly.

So, why would YOU say that there was NO Apostolic Succession?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Precious friend, rcc catechism could have fooled me:

"Is the Church necessary for salvation?
Answered By: Gregory Long Date: created: Aug 15 2021
The Church IS necessary for salvation because as Catholics we believe it’s in the church that we most fully encounter Christ, Where he is most present. Christ instituted the church and it’s the visible organization through which he gives us grace, truth and salvation."
+
Apparently, THIS catholic, Tim Staples, is NOT content
To Let God "Be The Judge," since he recently Insists:

"The Catholic Church teaches infallibly, “extra ecclesiam nulla salus,” or, “OUTSIDE the Church there is NO salvation.” But as with all dogmas of the Faith, this has to be qualified and understood properly. The Catechism of the Catholic Church lays out the truth of the matter succinctly in paragraphs 846-848, but I would recommend backing up to CCC 830 for a context that will help in understanding these three essential points concerning this teaching:

1. There is no salvation apart from Christ AND his One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Again, this is an infallible teaching and not up for debate among Catholics."

Doesn't sound like "content to let God Be The Judge," IF "the church" saves you.

What Saith The Scripture?:

Act 4:10 "...By The Name Of Jesus Christ..."

Act 4:12 ...Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none
other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

So, which is it? + WHO Is the Mediator?

1Ti 2:5 For there is One God, and ONE Mediator between God and men,
The Man CHRIST JESUS;

So, which is it? + WHO Is The Head?:

1Co_11:3 But I would have you know, that The Head of every man Is CHRIST;
and the head of the woman is the man; and The Head Of CHRIST is God.

So, which is it? God's ETERNAL Salvation "By JESUS CHRIST," OR:

by "some OTHER name"? God's Simple Will!

Conclusion: Yes, Absolutely! "God IS The JUDGE," According To The Scriptures!!

Some of us, outside of rcc, are content; rcc folks inside, are you Really content?

Extra Ecclisiam Nulla Salus is NOT that difficult to understand.

Acts 9:3-5
Now as he went on his way, he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven shone around him. And falling to the ground, he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.

Question: WHO was Saul persecuting?
Answer: The Church

Question: Then WHY did Jesus say that he (Saul) was persecuting HIM (Jesus)?
Answer: Because Jesus identifies the Church with His very SELF.

NO Church – NO Jesus.
KNOW the Church – KNOW Jesus.

Jesus said of the Authority He gave to His Church:
Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

 

[Illuminator]

Precious friend, rcc catechism could have fooled me:

"Is the Church necessary for salvation?
Answered By: Gregory Long Date: created: Aug 15 2021
The Church IS necessary for salvation because as Catholics we believe it’s in the church that we most fully encounter Christ, Where he is most present. Christ instituted the church and it’s the visible organization through which he gives us grace, truth and salvation."
+
Apparently, THIS catholic, Tim Staples, is NOT content
To Let God "Be The Judge," since he recently Insists:

"The Catholic Church teaches infallibly, “extra ecclesiam nulla salus,” or, “OUTSIDE the Church there is NO salvation.” But as with all dogmas of the Faith, this has to be qualified and understood properly. The Catechism of the Catholic Church lays out the truth of the matter succinctly in paragraphs 846-848, but I would recommend backing up to CCC 830 for a context that will help in understanding these three essential points concerning this teaching:

1. There is no salvation apart from Christ AND his One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Again, this is an infallible teaching and not up for debate among Catholics."

Doesn't sound like "content to let God Be The Judge," IF "the church" saves you.

Here is the link to the original article that proves you are taking Tim Staples out of context.

What Saith The Scripture?:

Act 4:10 "...By The Name Of Jesus Christ..."

Act 4:12 ...Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none
other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

So, which is it? + WHO Is the Mediator?

1Ti 2:5 For there is One God, and ONE Mediator between God and men,
The Man CHRIST JESUS;

"One Mediator" does not exclude subordinate mediators.

So, which is it? + WHO Is The Head?:

1Co_11:3 But I would have you know, that The Head of every man Is CHRIST;
and the head of the woman is the man; and The Head Of CHRIST is God.

So, which is it? God's ETERNAL Salvation "By JESUS CHRIST," OR:

by "some OTHER name"? God's Simple Will!

Conclusion: Yes, Absolutely! "God IS The JUDGE," According To The Scriptures!!

Some of us, outside of rcc, are content; rcc folks inside, are you Really content?

Waging a private war against the Catholic Church tells me you are not as content as you think. Be content where you are at, and leave Catholicism alone.

 

[Taken]

Much of the fundamentalist screed directed against Catholics here consists of mindless unbiblical generalizations. These fundamentalists lack the integrity ...

...Most evangelicals imagine that once they get their ticket punched to Heaven, post-baptismal sin is a minor issue because it is automatically forgiven by virtue of God's grace. So they presumptuously cheapen God's grace...
....no longer willing to air their dirty linen and Methodism has endured a slow steady decline ever since.

My thread will initially focus on these 9 Catholic distinctives: [/QUOTE]

LOL...Your thread is Typical of many Catholics. Initially Begin with slander Against people who are NOT Catholic, AS IF, what you are about to say, by default has merit.

Looks AS IF, you are about to teach Catholic Principles are:
Pro - mind reliance - integrity to study why Catholics do what they do - Gods Grace is cheapened if one believes Gods Works of Conversion IN a man is permanent - airing ones dirty laundry repeatedly is paramount.

 

[Taken]

Like I said - Mortal sin which involves grave matter, full knowledge and full consent.
Grabe matter can involve any violation of the Commandments - depending on the severity.

For example - stealing a pencil from work wouldn't be grave matter.
However, embezzling large sums pof money would probaby be grave matter. Murder, adultery, fornication - even gossip, depemnding on the severuty.

Sin is man Against God.
Trespassing is man Against man.

Men stealing from men is theft, is a Trespass of man Against man.
Men murdering men, committing adultery against a spouse, fornication, gossiping....is acts of men Against men...Trespasses of man Against man.
Men forgive men of Trespasses.

Sin Against God, is Changing His Word into a Lie, (killing, murdering His Word), is Committing Adultery Against Him, (with other gods), is Cheating God (By taking credit FOR His Works,) Is lying to God, (speaking Lies to God), Is stealing His Glory for yourself, (by uplifting your works greater than Gods).
Only God forgives men of Sin.

 

[Taken]

Jesus said of the Authority He gave to His Church:
Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

WHEN?
It is always WHEN the speaker “IS” SPEAKING Gods WORD!

And HOW DOES the LISTENER KNOW...? “IF” the SPEAKER “IS” SPEAKING GODS WORD?

Biblical Script written Knowledge Verification!

 

[Taken]

Berserk said: ↑
post-baptismal sin is a minor issue

Begin with the beginning and intent.
WHO did Jesus FIRST SEEK? Jews
WHO did Jesus SEND His Disciples/Apostles to SEEK? First the Jews, Then the other TRIBES of Israel.

What was a SIN, under Hebraic/Jewish Law?
ACTS of men Against God? Yes.
ACTS of men Against men? Yes.

What was Being OFFERED to the SOUGHT OUT, Jews and Tribesmen?
FORGIVENESS and SALVATION “FOR” their SIN Against “God”? Yes.
Did that RELIEVE Jews and Tribesmen “Under the Law” of “Committing acts of Sin Against men”? No.
Jew and Tribesmen “Under the law”, were in the process of being TAUGHT, their TRANSITION of BEING “Under the law”, to no longer BEING “Under the law”.
WHILE they were IN the process of “TRANSITION”, (Learning)...THEY were TOLD to CONTiNUE to “FORGIVE their Brethren OF SIN (according to their Law), their Brethren Committed Against THEM”.

* WHAT LAW was a Gentile UNDER, whereby a Gentiles ACT “against a man” was.......A SIN...“according to the Law”? Doesn’t EXIST!!!

IF YOU are NOT a JEW....IF YOU are NOT under Jewish LAW....WHY PRETEND what APPLIES to JEWISH men, (under Jewish Law) or A man of a TRIBE of ISRAEL, (under Jewish Law)....APPLIES TO YOU? And FURTHER PRETEND those SAME JEWISH Laws, Have ANY Application to ANY Gentile?

Haven’t YOU ACCUSED Gentile men IN Christ, of committing a SIN AGAINST YOU? I recall, that Catholics on this forum... HAVE accused others of committing a SIN Against THEM.

Haven’t YOU ACCUSED Gentile men IN Christ, of broadly committing a SIN?
I recall, that Catholics on this forum... HAVE accused others of committing a SIN.

Gentile men IN Christ, ARE NOT UNDER Jewish Law. They DO NOT, CAN NOT commit a SIN against men! There IS NO LAW, that Provides their ACTS toward IS a SIN! Without a Provision of Law, there is NO Violation of Law!

Jews were TAUGHT to CONFESS their SINS (under the law), committed Against a man, TO that man..FESS UP...set it straight with that OTHER man.
Ask the OTHER man, for his Forgiveness.

Gentiles were TAUGHT to CONFESS their SIN AGAINST God, TO God...FESS UP....set it straight with God. Ask His Forgiveness.
Gentiles were TAUGHT to CONFESS their TRESPASSES AGAINST OTHER men.
Ask the OTHER man, for his Forgiveness.

PRIESTS...CLERICS...are SUPPOSE to TEACH the Difference.
PRIESTS...CLERICS...are SUPPOSE to ASSURE the congregation God WILL HEAR a heartful CONFESSION and WILL Forgive that man.
PRIESTS...CLERICS...are SUPPOSE to TEACH a man TO Forgive OTHER men their TRESPASSES men COMMIT Against them.
PRIESTS...CLERICS...are SUPPOSE to TEACH a man TO go to OTHER men and ASK “their” forgiveness for “a mans” TRESPASS Committed AGAINST the other.

The BINDING and LOOSING among men...is BETWEEN men Forgiving one another of Trespasses. Either they WILL forgive the other man; or they WILL not.
* What they DO forgive SHALL BE “BOUND” (recorded IN Heaven IN Gods Records).
* What they DO NOT FORGIVE SHALL BE “LOOSED” on EARTH (not recorded IN Heaven IN Gods Records)

* Gods Heavenly Records (His Books) ARE the Records God IS BOUND to REWARD a man WHO forgave OTHER men their Trespasses.
* What is “Loosed” on Earth, Has NO MERIT for “REWARD” from God.
* What is “Loosed” on Earth, IS not Worthy of Reward.
* What is “Loosed” on Earth, IS subject to be BURNED.

Where is a Priest, in this Scenario? Is he “directing” men “TO” Him, “TO” hear his Confession of ACTS Against God? ACTS Against men? The Priest DOING THE FORGIVING? For an ACT Against God? For an ACT Against a man?
OR....is the Priest Directing the man TO ASK God for Forgiveness?
OR....is the Priest Directing the man TO ASK the other man for Forgiveness?

 

[Cassandra]

marks: "Required to be saved? That's been my understanding of CC teaching. Is that correct? This is considered sacramental, and as such, is a required act? I find justification in the cross, not the confessional. That's Biblical"

Hope! Regular confession is not optional if one wants God's forgiveness: "If we confess our sins, He who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). And James 5:16 makes it clear that regular Christian confession is a necessary condition for spiritual and physical healing. as a lifelong evangelical, I realize that. practically speaking, regular soul-searching with a view to confession is a relatively low priority.

Do you actually believe that once I profess my faith in the Gospel I get my ticket punched to heaven, so that it no longer matters whether I continue in sin or seek to identify and confess that sin? The Bible teaches that sin separates us from God: "If we sin willfully persist in sin after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 10:"If26)."
"If you say you have faith but don't have works, can faith save you (James 2:14)?" Answer: Of course not!

marks: "Confess your sins one to another . . . but one of those .... must .... be .... a .... priest .... ? That is the part that is not in the Bible."
No, but it's a legitmate application of Scripture, since priests are Catholic leaders and the listener needs to be a Christian who respects confidentiality and has mature discernment.

I believe that quote is "Confess your faults to one another", not your sins. Case in point. Adultery of course, is a sin. But we find out from the LORd that if we look upon another one's spouse with lust, we have committed adultery in our heart. Now, if i am attracted to so and so, and I tell another church member about it, even though I did not act upon it, it will color the other person's thoughts against me. That doesn't do anything but create problems. Later, that person may not want to associate with me because of my thoughts. However, if I take it to the Lord, who understands, He can help me with it. We all have sins and potential sins we don't want anyone to know about. Jesus already knows our hearts and can forgive us and help us to grow.

Regardless, I certainly believe in confessing my sins to a priest. That is exactly why, when I sin, I confess to Jesus.

Heb 4 14-16 "14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[Taken]

How did YOU learn what sin is? The Bible?

OT From Gods Word He Spoke to Hebrew men, and Hebrew men who Scribed (wrote) what was said....and later Hebrew men Recorded the Scribes (writings) into Scrolls...and later Tribesmen transliterated the Scrolls into Books.

NT From Jesus’ Words He Spoke TO Jewish men, and Jewish men who Scribed (wrote) what was said....and later Jewish men Recorded the Scribes (writings) into Scrolls....and later Jewish men and Gentile men transliterated the Scrolls into Books.

who

told you which Books belog in the Bible?

Depends on which written VERSION and which published VERSION, takes CREDIT for a particular VERSION....is the WHO.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Sin is man Against God.
Trespassing is man Against man.

Men stealing from men is theft, is a Trespass of man Against man.
Men murdering men, committing adultery against a spouse, fornication, gossiping....is acts of men Against men...Trespasses of man Against man.
Men forgive men of Trespasses.

Sin Against God, is Changing His Word into a Lie, (killing, murdering His Word), is Committing Adultery Against Him, (with other gods), is Cheating God (By taking credit FOR His Works,) Is lying to God, (speaking Lies to God), Is stealing His Glory for yourself, (by uplifting your works greater than Gods).
Only God forgives men of Sin.

WRONG.
ALL sin - whether it is against man oir God is against GOD - the final Judge.

If you fornicate with your brotheer's wife - you have sinned against God and against your brother.
If you steal money from your brother - SAME thing.

ALL wrongdoing is sin (1 John 5:17) - whether it is against your neighbor or directly against God.
ALL wrongdoing is ultimately against God.

Paul specifically speaks to this in 2 Cor. 2 when he writes about the Ministry of Reconciliation:
2 Cor. 2:10
“Whomever you forgive anything, so do I. For indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been FOR you in the presence of Christ”

He was forgiving sins - "trespasse"s that they committed against each other - in the PERSON (Gr.-prosopone) of Chrst because they were ALSO an offense against GOD (1 John 5:17).

 

[BreadOfLife]

WHEN?
It is always WHEN the speaker “IS” SPEAKING Gods WORD!
And HOW DOES the LISTENER KNOW...? “IF” the SPEAKER “IS” SPEAKING GODS WORD?
Biblical Script written Knowledge Verification!

Then tell me - WHOT are there literally tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant sects that ALL teach different and competing doctries based on the personal iterpretations of their founders??

If every person is to learn SOLELY from the Scriptures - WHY all the confusion?
Some Protestant denominations believe in baptismal regeneration, while others do not.
Some believe in soul-sleep, while others do not.
Some believe in the total depravity of man, while others do not.
Some believe in the Holy Trinity, while others do not.
Some believe in doctrine of “once saved, always saved”, while others do not.
Some believe in a pre-tribulation “Rapture”, while others do not.
Some believe that only those who were predestined will make it to heaven, while others do not.
Some believe that some were predestined for hell, while others do not.
Some believe in a woman’s right to choose abortion, while others do not.
Some believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin, while others do not.
Most believe in contraception, while others do not – and the list goes on.

What a MESS this false doctrine of Sola Scriptura has created . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Depends on which written VERSION and which published VERSION, takes CREDIT for a particular VERSION....is the WHO.

HUH??
That's the most ridiculous - and UNBIBLICAL thing I've ever heard.

Where does the Bibleteach this?? WHO told you which Books beloong in the Bible?
Just answer the question - or CAN you?

 

[Taken]

WRONG.

Ignore.

 

[Taken]

HUH??
That's the most ridiculous - and UNBIBLICAL thing I've ever heard.

LOL

Where

does the Bibleteach this?? WHO told you which Books beloong in the Bible?
Just answer the question - or CAN you?

Already answered, Depends on WHO is declaring.

According to Catholics......73 Cannon
According to Protestants...66 Cannon +
According to Orthodox......77 Cannon
According to Ethiopian......81 Cannon

 

[Taken]

Then tell me - WHOT are there literally tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant sects that ALL teach different and competing doctries based on the personal iterpretations of their founders??

You are the one who repeatedly says there are LITERATELY TENS OF THOUSANDS of blah, blah, blah, Protestants Churches....
You have NAMED NONE.
You have GIVEN NO examples of ANY Protestant Church in Disagreement that Christ’s Church consists of men who believe:
Jesus is the Christ the Son of the Living God....

WHY NOT? Why make an empty claim over and over without an ounce of proof?

If every person is to learn SOLELY from the Scriptures - WHY all the confusion?

Confusion is your claim about Church positions. Not my claim.
Confusion rests with “individuals”. All individuals IN Christ have ONE core Belief....that Jesus IS the Christ the Son of the Living God.

What “rules, teachings the Church teaches”, IS and IS not followed by congregates and members who attend that particular Church. AND THAT INCLUDES YOUR OWN CATHOLIC Church.

Jews, Chinese, Arabs, East Indians, Gentiles, Protestants are individuals just the same as Catholics....It’s the individuals choice to belong to whatever Religious Organization they CHOOSE....and It’s their own choice to AGREE or DISAGREE with all the “little rules” the Church clerics establish.

Some Protestant denominations believe in baptismal regeneration, while others do not.
Some believe in soul-sleep, while others do not.
Some believe in the total depravity of man, while others do not.
Some believe in the Holy Trinity, while others do not.
Some believe in doctrine of “once saved, always saved”, while others do not.
Some believe in a pre-tribulation “Rapture”, while others do not.
Some believe that only those who were predestined will make it to heaven, while others do not.
Some believe that some were predestined for hell, while others do not.
Some believe in a woman’s right to choose abortion, while others do not.
Some believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin, while others do not.
Most believe in contraception, while others do not – and the list goes on.

What a MESS this false doctrine of Sola Scriptura has created . . .

Catholics DO say they pray TO statues.
Catholics DO say they were BORN Catholics.
Catholics DO say they ARE BORN AGAIN, without ever confessing their SIN of unbelief TO GOD.
Catholics DO say they Never read the Bible.
Catholics DO say they Attend Church ONLY at Christmas and Easter.
Catholics DO say they do not Pray to God.
Catholics DO say they do not Believe in Jesus.
Catholics DO murder other men.
Catholics DO have abortions.
Catholics DO engage in homosexuality.
Catholics DO collude with known thugs to do their underhanded desires.
Catholics DO sit in a an Office, with the Benefit of a Priests Position, and are Drunks and Pedophiles and Womanizers and Homosexuals.

So what’s your point? You worry about a Protestants House of God, when your own Catholic House of God is above reproach? It isn’t.

false doctrine of Sola Scriptura has created

Your disdain Against Scripture, is your problem, not mine.
Your election to be BOUND by your Catholic clerics “rules”, is your choice, your problem, not mine.
If your behavior toward other men is a Reflection of you being Obedient to Catholic “rules”, I’m not impressed.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Ignore.

Yup - that's whay I expected.
Because I nailed you with actual Scripture - and not just moronic opinions about sin like YOU did . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL
Already answered, Depends on WHO is declaring.

According to Catholics......73 Cannon
According to Protestants...66 Cannon +
According to Orthodox......77 Cannon
According to Ethiopian......81 Cannon

Hmmmmm - another dodge.
Why can't you just answer the question for yourself??

WHO told YOU which Books beloong in the Bible?
How do YOU know which Books beloong in it?

 

[Episkopos]

This is a self-destruct thread based on proving how carnal religious people really are. We are all affected by the fallen human condition. The key is what to do with it.

The Catholic institution has some things right and some things wrong. The protestant institutions have some things right and some things wrong. And this is because all carnal men have both good and bad traits. Religious people live in the outer man NOT the inner man. So they will compare themselves to prove they are better than others. There is a way that seems right to people...but it leads to death, not life.

When we eat of the tree of BOTH good and evil...the result is a foregone conclusion. There should be no surprise at this. ALL institutions are from men...not God. So the fruit will be mixed. The result is a spiritually dead people.

We are supposed to be seeking and striving together for the unity of the gospel as opposed to defending and attacking people who are clinging to a different branch of a dead tree.

There is no life other than in Christ Himself. People will nod their heads at this and then proceed to look to men for their religious needs.