The Biblical Basis for Catholic Distinctives

[Illuminator]

One major criticism of Pope Francis is that he has created confusion in the Church. Here are four reasons people find him confusing and what we can do about it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

@BreadOfLife
Yes I fully agree. The bread in the Lord's Prayer and the bread in the Eucharist is the same. It's not either/or. This is very consistent with Jesus' teaching.
My whole point is, that churches don't clarify this. And I think it is crucial enough that they should, and should stress the importance of it. People are either not praying the Lord's Prayer, or if they are, they are not meaning it correctly. Jesus used these exact words: "this is how you should pray..." And in the prayer it says to pray it daily, to receive Jesus' body for the forgiveness of sins. No church is teaching this today.

You missed the ENTIRE 2nd point I mafe in my last post.

It's NOT that Jesus is teaching about the Eucharist here - He is showing the crowd that they can come to their God in prayer - as their FATHER. They were not used to thinking of Him that way. THEIR "Fathers" were men like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, et al.

Taking care of their daily needs is part of the petitrion from a child to their FATHER. - so I don't know why you have a problem with this. Why don't you have a problem with the phrase, "Lead us not into temptation"? Do you honestly believe that God will "lead" you into temptation?

This is probably the reason that the Chgurch does NOT expllicitly teach that this is a Eucharistic prayer - although, we are free to understand this phrase as BOTH our daily needs AND the Eucharist.
Hope that helps.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I'm sorry, I thought you would have been following this thread more closely, so you must have missed this...

Not personally, no. But historically, I am well aware of the role played by the church in changing the Sabbath to Sunday. Surely you, being the educated defender of everything Catholic, must be aware of the sole reason the Council of Trent, under the auspices of the Jesuits, managed to boast in the end of its success in establishing that tradition may be exalted above scripture if the church proclaims such is so? As in the change to the 4th commandment? Were not the doctrines and dogmas promulgated at the council of Trent declared infallible, and the defense of tradition put forth by the Archbishop of Reggio seen as proof of the primacy of tradition?

Yes, you've used this misleading picture before and I had to expose the factout to you that you only provided a SNIPPET - and NOT the entire image.

This is the Pope during a mass - and there are MORE than "4 living vreatures" around him in the UNCROPPED image. But then, again - who ever accused an SDA of being honest when it comes to Catholics?
I gave you the Wizard of Oz iumage because I kjnew EXACTLY what you were up to.

As to the "changing" of the Sabbath - Christians are fixated on Christ.
SDAs are obssessed with a SHADOW of Him (Col. 2:16-17).

The Sabbath is important - NOT Saturday. The observance of the Sabbath/the Lord's Day went from HOPING for the coming of the Messiah (the 7th Day) - to the REALITY of Him having come, died and having RISEN (the 1st Day).
YOU guys are still waiting for Him the FIRST time.
WE are waiting for His return . . .

Jesus is the Head of His Churchm which is His BODY (Col. 1:18).
Jesus and His Church are ONE (Acts 9:4-5).

BECAUSE of this - He gave His Church supreme earthly Authority - that WHATEVER His Church declared on earth would ALSO be declared in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 16:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).
AND, he guaranteed that the Holy Spirit would guide this Church ro ALL TRUTH (John 16:12-15(.

So - since YOUR problem is with Christ - you need to take it up with HIM . . .

 

[Marymog]

Sit not nor eat from the table of a harlot .

Which table do you sit at amigo?

 

[Marymog]

But then when I found this fact about them, I realized all churches have crucial faults in them. And that the only way is to become simply, Christian. As in by the Bible only, uninfluenced by churches agendas.
...

And you have no "faults" in your teachings/beliefs?

 

[amigo de christo]

Which table do you sit at amigo?

The table of the glorious truth of our Lord .

 

[amigo de christo]

Which table do you sit at amigo?

You are well under the influence of pope francis and this all inclusion delusion .
Yall mission is to simply try and unite the entire world under One , AND IT AINT CHRIST either .
Though they think it is . I will flee that tabernacle .
Many and many more are rushing right into a covenant with death itself . Many are calling it healing the wound and they
and their leaders have brought this lie right in unto their flocks .
Only in a heavily heavily decieved mind would one not see clearly the lies of this dangerously deceptive pope francis .
Instead they always make excuse for him . when its so obvious exactly what HE and elites are truly up too .
THEY SOLD JESUS OUT . Truth is they did that long ago , if indeed they ever even knew Him at all .
You dont see me making excuses for leaders who err . WHY Do so many make excuses upon excuses for
such a mighty and highly influential False one as pope francis . I mean i would think even babes in JESUS can see through this man .
AND guess what , THEY SURE CAN . SO how come so many within the protestant realm cannot
and why do so many just keep following that man . WHEN ITS VERY CLEAR HE is a deceiver and a betrayer of
the glorious gospel of Christ . I means its very evident . A simple mind of a small child could see it .

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Addressing:
"The Jews had a long list of strict commandments, and detailed and sometimes difficult requirements, to execute twice a day, and all for what? Forgiveness of their sins!"

On the other hand, The Body Of Christ, has no long list, just
"The Simplicity Of Christ!": 1) believe for Forgiveness,
and, 2) love + 3) study, for rewards!:

God's Very Simple Will! Amen?

 

[Marymog]

The table of the glorious truth of our Lord . Not at no table of any harlot .

OK....So you sit at "The table of the glorious truth of our Lord." and NOT at the table of the harlot. That (non)answer is pretty dog on vague. What table is that?

 

[Illuminator]

The table of the glorious truth of our Lord . Not at no table of any harlot .

 

[Illuminator]

How the Satanic Black Mass Proves the Truth of Catholicism
​

There have been a number of stories in the news lately of small Satanic groups publicly performing so-called “Black Masses.”

These rituals are based on the Catholic mass but are inverted toward Satan and often involve the desecration of a Eucharistic host.

This sort of thing is evil and should not be taken lightly. It’s also occurred to me, though, how these Black Masses offer a powerful argument for the truth of Catholicism.

The Eucharist is either Jesus or Evil
The Eucharist is either Jesus or mere bread and wine.

If the Eucharist is Jesus, everyone should be at Mass, worshipping Our Lord. If the Eucharist is Jesus, there should be no such thing as Protestantism, Mormonism, Islam, atheism, etc. But if the Eucharist isn’t Jesus, then for two thousand years, the would-be followers of Jesus Christ were actually idolaters. If that’s the case, nobody should be Catholic.

So those are the stakes. Everyone who encountered Jesus of Nazareth was faced with a crucial question: is this God, in some mysterious guise, or not? The early Christians called this the “aut Deus aut malus homo” (“either God or a bad man”). Everyone encountering the Eucharist is faced with the same question: either God or idolatry.

And of course, if the Eucharist is pagan idolatry, it’s demonic. As 1 Corinthians 10:20 says, “what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God.”

The whole world hangs on this point: is the Eucharist Jesus or an idol? Is the Sacrifice of the Mass being offered to God, or to demons?

Satan Hates the Eucharist
The satanic Black Mass is a ritual inversion (and mockery) of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass performed by Satanists. Now, there are two types of Satanists: “LaVey Satanists,” and “theological Satanists.” LaVey Satanists atheists who don’t believe in Satan, and use “Satanism” as a tool to harass and provoke Christians (unlike “theological Satanists,” who believe in Satan and worship him). But whether the practitioners are playing at the occult, or serious, there’s no question that they’re tapping into some seriously dark spiritual forces. Satan is at work here.

And it worth pointing out that when Satanists (of both kind) want to mock a religious ritual, you can bet that it’s going to be the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass that they target. How often do you hear about Muslim or Hindu or Jewish (or even Protestant) services being subjected to such intense Satanic mockery?

Nor is this Satanic targeting of the Mass anything new. As far back as the fourth century, St. Epiphanius of Salamis described a sect of Gnosticism performing a perverted mockery of Mass. I won’t go into the details, but it was graphic enough that the members of this sect became known as “Borborians” (“filthy ones”).

Satan Doesn’t Drive Out Satan
So the Eucharist is either Jesus or evil (since if it’s not Jesus, it’s idolatry) and since the devil hates the Eucharist, we can cross “evil” off the list.

For some additional Biblical support, consider Matthew 12.22-28:

“Then a blind and dumb demoniac was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the dumb man spoke and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?” But when the Pharisees heard it they said, “It is only by Be-el′zebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.”

“Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand; and if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? And if I cast out demons by Be-el′zebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.”

This passage is important: it shows, for example, that Catholic exorcists are operating by the Spirit of God when they drive out demons. But it also means that if Satan hates the Mass, we can be sure that the Mass isn’t evil.

Of course, if the Mass isn’t demonic, if it isn’t idolatry, that really only leaves one option: that the Eucharist is Jesus Christ, and that the Sacrifice of the Mass is presenting Jesus to the Father. This (and as far as I can tell, this alone), accounts for the Satanic mockery.

The Target of Satan
Even if the only thing you knew about Catholicism was that its central form of worship, the Mass, was the target of Satanic ire, you would already have good reason to believe that Catholicism was the true religion.

But taken with all of the other evidence for the truth that the Eucharist is Jesus, that the Mass is a Sacrifice instituted by God, and that the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Christ, Satan is just one more (unwitting) witness for the truth of Jesus Christ and His Church.

Originally posted on Shameless Popery

 

[Jane_Doe22]

How the Satanic Black Mass Proves the Truth of Catholicism
​

There have been a number of stories in the news lately of small Satanic groups publicly performing so-called “Black Masses.”

These rituals are based on the Catholic mass but are inverted toward Satan and often involve the desecration of a Eucharistic host.

This sort of thing is evil and should not be taken lightly. It’s also occurred to me, though, how these Black Masses offer a powerful argument for the truth of Catholicism.

The Eucharist is either Jesus or Evil
The Eucharist is either Jesus or mere bread and wine.

If the Eucharist is Jesus, everyone should be at Mass, worshipping Our Lord. If the Eucharist is Jesus, there should be no such thing as Protestantism, Mormonism, Islam, atheism, etc. But if the Eucharist isn’t Jesus, then for two thousand years, the would-be followers of Jesus Christ were actually idolaters. If that’s the case, nobody should be Catholic.

So those are the stakes. Everyone who encountered Jesus of Nazareth was faced with a crucial question: is this God, in some mysterious guise, or not? The early Christians called this the “aut Deus aut malus homo” (“either God or a bad man”). Everyone encountering the Eucharist is faced with the same question: either God or idolatry.

And of course, if the Eucharist is pagan idolatry, it’s demonic. As 1 Corinthians 10:20 says, “what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God.”

The whole world hangs on this point: is the Eucharist Jesus or an idol? Is the Sacrifice of the Mass being offered to God, or to demons?

Satan Hates the Eucharist
The satanic Black Mass is a ritual inversion (and mockery) of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass performed by Satanists. Now, there are two types of Satanists: “LaVey Satanists,” and “theological Satanists.” LaVey Satanists atheists who don’t believe in Satan, and use “Satanism” as a tool to harass and provoke Christians (unlike “theological Satanists,” who believe in Satan and worship him). But whether the practitioners are playing at the occult, or serious, there’s no question that they’re tapping into some seriously dark spiritual forces. Satan is at work here.

And it worth pointing out that when Satanists (of both kind) want to mock a religious ritual, you can bet that it’s going to be the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass that they target. How often do you hear about Muslim or Hindu or Jewish (or even Protestant) services being subjected to such intense Satanic mockery?

Nor is this Satanic targeting of the Mass anything new. As far back as the fourth century, St. Epiphanius of Salamis described a sect of Gnosticism performing a perverted mockery of Mass. I won’t go into the details, but it was graphic enough that the members of this sect became known as “Borborians” (“filthy ones”).

I don't understand this type of posts.

I'm not Catholic. I don't believe in the Real Presence. However, I find it VERY offensive to call a Catholic an "idol worshiper". In my eyes, Catholics are Christians and truly worship Christ. Despite the mistaken literal interpretation of the Lord's Supper, they are still Chrsitian.

Would you instead like me to call you an idol worshipper? I'm assuming not. Then why this post ?

 

[PinSeeker]

The Lord's Supper (or Communion, or the Eucharist) is not a "sacrifice instituted by God," but a sacrament (baptism is another) given to us by God as a sign and seal, instituted by Christ, to remember His death and His work in cleansing His people from sin. We remember (take part in) the Lord's Supper, when Jesus took the Old Testament sacrament of Passover and filled it with new meaning and new content. He took the bread and the wine of the Passover meal and made them signs and seals of His broken body and shed blood, which are the purchase price of our redemption. This sacrament represents the Lord accommodating Himself to this weakness of ours in order to assist us in remembering what He has done for us. The wine and the bread did not then and do not now actually become Christ's body and blood; transubstantiation is, well, ridiculous, quite frankly.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Illuminator]

I don't understand this type of posts.

I'm not Catholic. I don't believe in the Real Presence. However, I find it VERY offensive to call a Catholic an "idol worshiper". In my eyes, Catholics are Christians and truly worship Christ. Despite the mistaken literal interpretation of the Lord's Supper, they are still Christian.

Thank you. We think Protestants are Christians too. Why was the Real Presence not seriously challenged by anyone for 1600+ years?

Would you instead like me to call you an idol worshipper? I'm assuming not.

Of course not. But Bible-Christian hate cults call us a harlot, which is more vile. For some strange reason, it's not against the rules.

Then why this post ?

It's not off topic as it flows along with the discussion: the Eucharist.
It's either God or an idol.
“Is This God?” (Treatise on the Eucharist) [Envoy Magazine] | Dave Armstrong

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Thank you. We think Protestants are Christians too. Why was the Real Presence not seriously challenged by anyone for 1600+ years?

Of course not. But Bible-Christian hate cults call us a harlot, which is more vile. For some strange reason, it's not against the rules.

I'm sorry folks called you that, and no it should not be permitted. I PASSIONATELY disagree with "anti-cult" hate groups.

It's not off topic as it flows along with the discussion: the Eucharist.
It's either God or an idol.
“Is This God?” (Treatise on the Eucharist) [Envoy Magazine] | Dave Armstrong

Again, I find this to be an extremest position. Rather I find Catholics to be Christians whom are mistaken on their literal views here. But still Christians.

 

[Illuminator]

I'm sorry folks called you that, and no it should not be permitted. I PASSIONATELY disagree with "anti-cult" hate groups.

Again, I find this to be an extremest position. Rather I find Catholics to be Christians whom are mistaken on their literal views here. But still Christians.

Who was the first to declare our "literal views" mistaken? What year or century was this view deemed as mistaken? 1830? Twice you stated we are mistaken; could you qualify your comment ? Historical continuity must have a beginning, and proven with primary and secondary evidence. It's a shame that history is such a bad word around here.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Who was the first to declare our "literal views" mistaken? What year or century was this view deemed as mistaken? 1830? Twice you stated we are mistaken; could you qualify your comment ? Historical continuity must have a beginning, and proven with primary and secondary evidence. It's a shame that history is such a bad word around here.

This doesn’t answer my question.

Oh well.

 

[Marymog]

Again, I find this to be an extremest position. Rather I find Catholics to be Christians whom are mistaken on their literal views here. But still Christians.

hey jane,

Just to be accurate I would like to point out that there are several Protestant denominations who are.....according to you...."mistaken" "extremist" when it comes to what you have been taught by your men about the Eucharist. So when you only mention "Catholics", that is not fair or accurate. It can be historically proven that Christianity has taught the Real Presence in the Eucharist since the beginning of Christianity. It has only been since the Reformation that SOME Protestants have rejected the teaching on the Real Presence.

So that begs a question: Who is really mistaken? The denominations (Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox) that literally hold to what Jesus said at The Last Supper (this IS my body/blood)? The denominations that answer with a loud YES to the rhetorical question that Paul asked in 1 Corinthians 10:16? So yes, we take literally what Jesus said that it IS his body/blood. AND we answer Paul's rhetorical question with a resounding YES: The cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks IS a participation in the blood of Christ and the bread that we break IS a participation in the body of Christ!! You and your men are telling Jesus that it isn't his body and blood and your answer to Paul, if he were standing in front of you, would be NO, it is NOT a participation in the body/blood.

Jesus said you must eat my body and drink my blood to have life in you. How do you, Jane Doe22, do what he told you to do?

Mary

 

[Jay Ross]

Oh how we sin in acting God like when we judge the faith or otherwise of people around us.

In the OT, many of the prophets spoke with God. Even King David had a heart after God's heart.

So if people where able to communicate with God in the OT, why is it so special in the NT.

Perhaps there is much that needs to be repented of by people to get right with God.

 

[Brakelite]

Yes, you've used this misleading picture before and I had to expose the factout to you that you only provided a SNIPPET - and NOT the entire image.

This is the Pope during a mass - and there are MORE than "4 living vreatures" around him in the UNCROPPED image. But then, again - who ever accused an SDA of being honest when it comes to Catholics?
I gave you the Wizard of Oz iumage because I kjnew EXACTLY what you were up to.

As to the "changing" of the Sabbath - Christians are fixated on Christ.
SDAs are obssessed with a SHADOW of Him (Col. 2:16-17).

The Sabbath is important - NOT Saturday. The observance of the Sabbath/the Lord's Day went from HOPING for the coming of the Messiah (the 7th Day) - to the REALITY of Him having come, died and having RISEN (the 1st Day).
YOU guys are still waiting for Him the FIRST time.
WE are waiting for His return . . .

Jesus is the Head of His Churchm which is His BODY (Col. 1:18).
Jesus and His Church are ONE (Acts 9:4-5).

BECAUSE of this - He gave His Church supreme earthly Authority - that WHATEVER His Church declared on earth would ALSO be declared in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 16:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).
AND, he guaranteed that the Holy Spirit would guide this Church ro ALL TRUTH (John 16:12-15(.

So - since YOUR problem is with Christ - you need to take it up with HIM . . .

Yes, and I'm the throne room of God are innumerable numbers of angels worshiping they one on the throne... Just as the picture I showed reveals one on a throne pretending to be Christ on earth. Between 2 cherubim, and 4 living creatures. It's not an SDA picture. That's from the Vatican, and I couldn't care less whether it's a mass of a confession. It's a counterfeit of God's throne room as depicted in scripture, and you pathetic protestations cannot deny it.

If the change to the Sabbath was so cute and dried and obvious per your misrepresentation of Colossians, why couldn't the Jesuits at the council of Trent see that? But no, the only defense of Sunday was to appeal to tradition which the council declared was the signal victory for the Catholic party over the protestants and the scriptures.