The Biblical Basis for Catholic Distinctives

[Taken]

I've already shown this to you, but just for grins - here it is again . . .

Acts 9:31 talks about how the Early Church grew throughout the region. The language used here describes the Catholic Church:

Already Settled.
Not a mystery...Here is Christ Jesus’ Word concerning “His Church”....

Matt 18:
[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Matt 18:
[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

 

[Christian Believer]

Thanks for your reply.
I also have a blog - and an article with the SAME Title: Mary, The Mother of God (wuthout the "?"):
Catholic Faith Facts: Mary, the Mother of God

However, for the sake of forum conversation - can you just reply to the points that you disagree with as we converse? It makes it a LOT easier than havoing to read 2 very LONG articles.

Thanks agian.

I'll try, as it is difficult to explain a misunderstood doctrine for hundreds of years, in a few lines. Otherwise we'd just be misunderstanding and attacking each other 2 lines at a time.

God saw that Mary was blessed among women, and gave her a big role - deliver Jesus to earth in order to accomplish God's redemption plan.

God has given authority to Peter, to attend to the spiritual needs of the people - Jesus told Peter: "feed My sheep" John 21:15-17. He trusted Peter with making sure that His teachings and commandments reach people throughout the world, and even perform miracles in His name. But He did not instruct him to create "New-Testament Part 2"!! Or make changes in the structure of God and His heaven! Converting people from humans to Gods is not the business of the Vatican:
Matthew 18:17-19
If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, regard him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Again, I tell you truly that if two of you on the earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by My Father in heaven.
Notes: It becomes obvious when we look at the before and after verses that this whole binding and loosening was about people relations on earth and attending to their needs, and this would be accepted/approved in heaven. This does not include the power to make Mary a Deity and seat her next to God the father!

The blessed Mary is a human, and is dead and buried like all other prophets and disciples who died. Of course from God's eternal perspective He sees her alive in Heaven, but from our human perspective before the end of this age and judgement day, she's dead. She cannot hear any prayers. Jesus is the only mediator, 1Timothy 2:5: “For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.” And, according to the Bible, He is alive in the flesh today just as He ascended into heaven 2,000 years ago.

The blessed Mary is the mother of Jesus the human.
The blessed Mary is not the mother of Jesus the son of God.
Jesus did not come into existence when Mary gave birth to Him.
Before Mary was born, Jesus is "I Am".
John 8:58
"Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."

The mother-son relationship between Mary and Jesus has stopped after the death of Jesus on the cross. It has become a human-God relationship like the rest of humans, but with special treatment to Mary similar to prophets and disciples.

If the ascension of Mary to heaven was true, then God would not have left people in the dark about it! He would not have left such an unprecedented event out of the Bible. It is so unlike God's personality to only give this information to Pope Pius to announce it!! So Mary is now seated at the right-hand of God with her son Jesus?!! In the highest heaven, the unapproachable light? (Timothy 6:16: who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever.) This is even contradicting to the Catholic church's own doctrine! Why then is Mary not in the "In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit"? And why is she not in the Nicene Creed?

Mary is not the mother of God:
The Bible always referred to Mary as the mother of Jesus, never as the mother of God. For those wanting the Blessed Mary to be the mother of God so badly, there is a harsh reality for them in the Bible:
Luke 11:27-28
As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.” He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”
Matthew 12:46-50
While Jesus was still speaking to the crowds... Someone told Him, “Look, Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to You.” But Jesus replied, “Who is My mother, and who are My brothers?”...
Notes: When we look at biblical references like these, we may think even Jesus was insensitive to His mother. But He was not! He was just focused on God and His plan to provide salvation to everyone, including Mary. And Mary herself saw this clearly later, on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:1–4.

Some are in it Because Mary Represents the Caring Woman and Mother:
But if they only knew God, they would have changed their ways! God is our parent representing both genders and He is far more loving and caring than any human can be:
Genesis 1:27
God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
Isaiah 66:13
'As one whom his mother comforts, so I will comfort you; you shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
Isaiah 49:15
'Can a woman forget her nursing child, that she should have no compassion on the son of her womb? Even she may forget, yet I will not forget you.'

So all those in need of a female Godly figure to turn to “because she understands women better” or "because she's like a mother to everyone", and went on and gave the blessed Mary more roles than God intended, need to stop that. The blessed Mary herself would chastise them severely for this, and would ask them to turn to God!
2Timothy 4:3-4
“For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.”

Misunderstood Biblical References:
One of the biblical references used to justify all this is, Luke 1:41-43 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? Elizabeth called her "the mother of my Lord". Not "the mother of my God". The term "Lord" does not have an exclusive meaning as God. It is mostly used with people of status - a high-priest, a bishop, a king, etc.. Jesus was called Lord throughout the new testament. To the people around Him, He was a human teacher or rabbi; a Lord.

And this one:
John 2:1-5
On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there... My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you."
Notes: As in, she told Him what to do. Every Catholic person I know points to this as the undisputable higher authority of Mary over Jesus.

Why Pray to People, When There IS a God Who Loves to Hear from Us
Look in the Bible. These verses clearly say not to pray to people:
Acts 10:25-26
As Peter was about to enter, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet to worship him. But Peter helped him up. “Stand up,” he said, “I am only a man myself.”
Acts 14:11-15
After Paul raised a man from the dead: ... The priest of Zeus, ..., brought bulls and wreaths to the city gates because he and the crowd wanted to offer sacrifices to them. But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of this, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting: “Friends, why are you doing this? We too are only human, like you...

Ever since the 3rd century, Christians became less and less filled with the Holy Spirit, resulting in unbiblical theologies. Notice the Bible uses the word "filled", as in a "measure of", in connection with those who were truly filled with the Holy Spirit back in the days of Jesus, Mary, and Paul. Today, if we are to use a measure, it appears that Christians barely have "a trace of" the Holy Spirit in them.

@BreadOfLife and @Illuminator, if you're basing your eternal condition on the few points you brought up, look at this reply closely, you are on very thin ice. Why risk your eternity for mere earthly loyalties?

I highly encourage everyone to look at my website. It is full of harsh exposure of new truths poking all denominations in their very heart. No Ads, no donations, no profit for clicks, no registration. It is my own site, and is solely dedicated to God: RealBibleStudy.org

 

[BreadOfLife]

Already Settled.
Not a mystery...Here is Christ Jesus’ Word concerning “His Church”....

Matt 18:
[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Matt 18:
[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

And as usual - you deflect from the subject when you've LOST the argument.

YOU demanded that I show you where "Catholic" is found in the Bible - and I gave you a scholarly explantion in post #575 with regards to Acts 9:31. Your response is a failure.

Try again . . .

PS - While you're at it - show me where the Bible lists ALL of thos Protestant terminologies that I listed in post #575 - as well as the word, "Bible" itself.

 

[Taken]

They never "stopped" being Catholic.
They became apostate Catholics.

LOL...yet again dictating for others.

 

[amigo de christo]

And as usual - you deflect from the subject when you've LOST the argument.

YOU demanded that I show you where "Catholic" is found in the Bible - and I gave you a scholarly explantion in post #575 with regards to Acts 9:31. Your response is a failure.

Try again . . .

PS - While you're at it - show me where the Bible lists ALL of thos Protestant terminologies that I listed in post #575 - as well as the word, "Bible" itself.

You gave THE RCC scholarly version . My advice to all is be on gaurd with these scholars as well as those within
the protestant realm . I am seein way to many scholars justify things to fit in with their OWN teachings . IF ya KNOW what i mean .
Lest ye become as carnal intellectual scholars YE cannot enter into the KINGDOM .........I trow not
LEST ye become as little children . So again , TRUST in the glorious words of the bible , be as small children who just
love those words . Understanding comes in time . But beware the many scholars
for i say unto you all , many have not entered into the Kingdom of heaven but teach according to their own wisdom .

 

[Taken]

And as usual - you deflect from the subject when you've LOST the argument.

YOU demanded that I show you where "Catholic" is found in the Bible - and I gave you a scholarly explantion in post #575 with regards to Acts 9:31. Your response is a failure.

Try again . . .

PS - While you're at it - show me where the Bible lists ALL of thos Protestant terminologies that I listed in post #575 - as well as the word, "Bible" itself.

LOL..I demanded nothing from you.
LOL...no deflection,
On Point...
Christ Jesus’ Church IS His Church.
Christ Jesus Builds His Church.

 

[Illuminator]

"Christian Believer, I am now non-denominational; simply an unbiased Christian.]

We ALL have our biases; there is no such thing as an unbiased Christian. Should we start with the deficiencies and biases of non-denominations? Your link "We Are Christians" is loaded with errors and misrepresentations.

1. Stay loyal to your earthly social, and emotional needs:

Mary is the mother of God. She'll talk to her son for me.

Our family prayed to Mary for generations. All our ancestors believed this; who am I to change it?

I cannot go on in life without Mary next to me.

Mary is the mother of the world.

We don't read the Bible. We have priests and bishops who do it for us, and we trust them. Which ones? The corrupt ones in the news everyday?

We don't do like the protestants. We don't want them to win this battle. We will remain loyal to Mary. "Us and Them" attitude.
​

Sorry, Christian Believer, but this a load of garbage. Devotions are not mandatory but they are profitable when done with the proper disposition. Was Justin Martyr a Christian a time when there was no Bible as we know it? Technically, we don't "pray to Mary", we ask for her intercession. We do it because it works. "I cannot go on in life without Mary next to me." is stupid and insulting. A major turn off.

"We don't read the Bible. We have priests and bishops who do it for us, and we trust them. Which ones? The corrupt ones in the news everyday?"

You trust the Satan controlled media for your information?

"We don't read the Bible."

Another lie. There is more "Bible" in one Catholic mass than a month of non-denominational services. The major highlights of the Bible are read aloud in one year, and almost the entire Bible is read aloud in a 3 year cycle, in an orderly manner.

We don't do like the protestants. We don't want them to win this battle. We will remain loyal to Mary. "Us and Them" attitude.

You are really off the mark with that whopper. Why does the CC instruct us to rightly call Protestants Christians??? (CCC817-820) "Us and Them" attitude is not ours, it's yours.
Recently, the pope advised us to consult the Bible as often as we pick up our cell phones.

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Francis on Sunday called on people to carry and read the bible with as much dedication as they do their mobile phones.

Speaking to pilgrims in a rain-soaked St. Peter’s Square, the 80-year-old pope asked: “What would happen if we treated the bible like we do our mobile phones?”

He continued: “If we turned around to retrieve it when we forgot it? If we carried it with us always, even a small pocket version? If we read God’s messages in the bible like we read messages on the mobile phone?”

Francis called the comparison “paradoxical” and said it was meant to be a source of reflection, adding that bible reading would help people resist daily temptations.
Pope says carry and read bible as if it were a mobile phone​

 

[Mink57]

https://www.realbiblestudy.org/we-are-christians

Hello @Illuminator,
I apologize if I offended you personally; that was not my intention. I love God, and I love all people. I do strive to look at all this in a generic way, not with an “us and them” attitude. I am truly seeking God as Jesus advised us in the Sermon on the Mount. And truly hope that all people on earth see clearly. This is my objective. It is not to single out and target the Catholic Church. I have actually targeted all other denominations and exposed their deficiencies just as harshly.

I humbly invite you to look at my post here, it has all the biblical references you need: Mary Mother of God?

And exposing the rest of the denominations here: We Are Christians

Good day!

The problem *I* had with your post #535, is that you DID, in fact, target the Catholic Church.

Hello @BreadOfLife

I was born and raised Catholic. And I also did a lot of seeking God in the scriptures on my own later in life. I am now 70, and have come to see many things much clearer thanks to the wisdom God gave me. I am now non-denominational; simply an unbiased Christian. I do expose deficiencies in both Protestants and Catholics.

I have all the answers to your references, also with my Bible references. I detailed it all in my post here: Mary the Mother of God

And my post exposing other denominations here: We Are Christians

Your post (with bullets) didn't "expose" any "deficiencies" in the Catholic Church. In fact, much of what you wrote comes from your own personal opinion, isn't at all true.

For example, you wrote:

• The church concentrates only on the new-testament Bible, and treats the old-testament scripture as myths. Even though Jesus referenced a lot of old-testament verses.

This is NOT true. If you own a Catholic Bible, you'll find it literally saturated with footnotes referencing OT and NT verses that support one another. You say you were born and raised Catholic. If that's true, then you most likely attended Mass. But when you were at Mass, how attentive were you? If you were attentive at all, you would have discovered that there are several Bible readings during the Mass. The first readings are from either the OT or the NT. Next, there's a reading from Psalms. After that, it's a reading from The Gospel. It takes the Church three years to get through the entire Bible. But they do read (in church) the entire Bible.

You also wrote:

• The Catholic church does not encourage people to read the Bible! Many Catholic people actually "hate" studying the Bible, for these confessed reasons: "Oh no, Protestants do that; we don't!"; "We have priests and bishops to do it for us, and we trust them."

Again, this is NOT true. Perhaps *your* Catholic church didn't encourage people to read the Bible, but *my* church certainly does! Not only that but if you pick up a Catholic Bible, and flip to the Introduction in the beginning of the book, it lays out several possible reading plans. The book even encourages Catholics to join a Bible study group...AND, that the study group doesn't necessarily have to be Catholic!

What the Church does not do is to tell Catholics that they MUST read the Bible (or else...), or that there's only ONE WAY to read the Bible...or that they MUST read the Bible for 'X' amount of hours per day.

Some Catholics believe that they get enough 'bible exposure' by going to church. Others want a deeper spiritual life, and they commit to reading it daily for 5 or 10 minutes, or even an hour each day.

The point is, that you're 'exposing' your own personal non-truths.

And that's not good.

 

[Illuminator]

The guilty should pay, and the innocent should not. This is a pedestrian axiom that is being trashed today when it comes to assessing priestly misconduct, something the Pennsylvania grand jury report has contributed to mightily.

No amount of compassion for those who have been violated by priests should ever be done at the expense of telling the truth, no matter how unpopular it may sound. To do otherwise is cowardly, shameful, and unjust.

What is driving the current mania over this issue is not hard to figure out. I am a sociologist who has been dealing with this issue for a long time, having published articles about it in books and international journals.

Here is what’s going on. There are many vicious critics of the Catholic Church who would like to weaken its moral authority, and will seize on any problem it has to discredit its voice. Why? They hate its teachings on sexuality, marriage, and the family.

These very same people delight in promoting a libertine culture, one which ironically was the very milieu that enticed some very sick priests and their seminarian supervisors to act out in the first place.

There is nothing wrong with Catholic teachings on this subject: If priests had followed their vows, and not their id, we would not have this problem. Those who refuse to use the brakes God gave them, straight or gay, should be shown the gate or never admitted in the first place.
PENNSYLVANIA GRAND JURY REPORT DEBUNKED

 

[BreadOfLife]

I'll try, as it is difficult to explain a misunderstood doctrine for hundreds of years, in a few lines. Otherwise we'd just be misunderstanding and attacking each other 2 lines at a time.

God saw that Mary was blessed among women, and gave her a big role - deliver Jesus to earth in order to accomplish God's redemption plan.

God has given authority to Peter, to attend to the spiritual needs of the people - Jesus told Peter: "feed My sheep" John 21:15-17. He trusted Peter with making sure that His teachings and commandments reach people throughout the world, and even perform miracles in His name. But He did not instruct him to create "New-Testament Part 2"!! Or make changes in the structure of God and His heaven! Converting people from humans to Gods is not the business of the Vatican:
Matthew 18:17-19
If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, regard him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Again, I tell you truly that if two of you on the earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by My Father in heaven.
Notes: It becomes obvious when we look at the before and after verses that this whole binding and loosening was about people relations on earth and attending to their needs, and this would be accepted/approved in heaven. This does not include the power to make Mary a Deity and seat her next to God the father!

The blessed Mary is a human, and is dead and buried like all other prophets and disciples who died. Of course from God's eternal perspective He sees her alive in Heaven, but from our human perspective before the end of this age and judgement day, she's dead. She cannot hear any prayers. Jesus is the only mediator, 1Timothy 2:5: “For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.” And, according to the Bible, He is alive in the flesh today just as He ascended into heaven 2,000 years ago.

The blessed Mary is the mother of Jesus the human.
The blessed Mary is not the mother of Jesus the son of God.
Jesus did not come into existence when Mary gave birth to Him.
Before Mary was born, Jesus is "I Am".
John 8:58
"Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."

The mother-son relationship between Mary and Jesus has stopped after the death of Jesus on the cross. It has become a human-God relationship like the rest of humans, but with special treatment to Mary similar to prophets and disciples.

If the ascension of Mary to heaven was true, then God would not have left people in the dark about it! He would not have left such an unprecedented event out of the Bible. It is so unlike God's personality to only give this information to Pope Pius to announce it!! So Mary is now seated at the right-hand of God with her son Jesus?!! In the highest heaven, the unapproachable light? (Timothy 6:16: who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever.) This is even contradicting to the Catholic church's own doctrine! Why then is Mary not in the "In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit"? And why is she not in the Nicene Creed?

Mary is not the mother of God:
The Bible always referred to Mary as the mother of Jesus, never as the mother of God. For those wanting the
Notes: When we look at biblical references like these, we may think even Jesus was insensitive to His mother. But He was not! He was just focused on God and His plan to provide salvation to everyone, including Mary. And Mary herself saw this clearly later, on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:1–4.

Some are in it Because Mary Represents the Caring Woman and Mother:
But if they only knew God, they would have changed their ways! God is our parent representing both genders and He is far more loving and caring than any human can be:

So all those in need of a female Godly figure to turn to “because she understands women better” or "because she's like a mother to everyone", and went on and gave the blessed Mary more roles than God intended, need to stop that. The blessed Mary herself would chastise them severely for this, and would ask them to turn to God!

Misunderstood Biblical References:
One of the biblical references used to justify all this is, Luke 1:41-43 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? Elizabeth called her "the mother of my Lord". Not "the mother of my God". The term "Lord" does not have an exclusive meaning as God. It is mostly used with people of status - a high-priest, a bishop, a king, etc.. Jesus was called Lord throughout the new testament. To the people around Him, He was a human teacher or rabbi; a Lord.

And this one:
John 2:1-5
On the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there... My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you."
Notes: As in, she told Him what to do. Every Catholic person I know points to this as the undisputable higher authority of Mary over Jesus.

Why Pray to People, When There IS a God Who Loves to Hear from Us
Look in the Bible. These verses clearly say not to pray to people:

Ever since the 3rd century, Christians became less and less filled with the Holy Spirit, resulting in unbiblical theologies. Notice the Bible uses the word "filled", as in a "measure of", in connection with those who were truly filled with the Holy Spirit back in the days of Jesus, Mary, and Paul. Today, if we are to use a measure, it appears that Christians barely have "a trace of" the Holy Spirit in them.

@BreadOfLife and @Illuminator, if you're basing your eternal condition on the few points you brought up, look at this reply closely, you are on very thin ice. Why risk your eternity for mere earthly loyalties?

I highly encourage everyone to look at my website. It is full of harsh exposure of new truths poking all denominations in their very heart. No Ads, no donations, no profit for clicks, no registration. It is my own site, and is solely dedicated to God: RealBibleStudy.org

I see you simply toook large portions of your blog and pasted them here. I had to delete some of your text here in my reponse because of forum constraints.
I was hoping that you would just give rebuttals to what is being discussed here.

Anyway - as for "praying" - I think you have that conflated with "Worship".
NOT all prayer is worship. In fact, "Pray" simply means "ASK":
Definition of the word “PRAY”:
Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary:
Full Definition of pray
transitive verb
1: entreat, implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea<pray be careful>
2: to get or bring by praying

intransitive verb
1: to make a request in a humble manner
2: to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving

As you can see - "Worship" is NOT even the primary definition.

As to your explanation that Mary is NOT the Mother of God - this is a falsehood.
Jesus is NOT simply God - nor is He only Man. He is BOTH - and Hisa 2 naruees are inseparable. This is what ius referred yto as the Hypostatic Union. He is the Anthropos - the God-Man.

Mary did NOT give birth to a "nature" - anymore than YOUR mother did. She gave birth to a person - like YOUR mother did. The Person of Jesus is BOTH Man and God.
Many heresies in the Early Church arose because of of the misunderstandinf of the nature of God. The heresy that YOU are espousing is referred to as "Nestorianism" - and was a the main reason the Council of Ephesus was convened in 431.

John 1:1, 14
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

The Word became flesh - but it did NOT cease to be the Word.

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL...yet again dictating for others.

No - it's a fact.
Baptism into the Church leaves an indelible mark on the soul.

You can reject it - but it's like hammering a nail into a wall, removing the nail - then denying that the hole is there.
YOU seem to be good at denial . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You gave THE RCC scholarly version . My advice to all is be on gaurd with these scholars as well as those within
the protestant realm . I am seein way to many scholars justify things to fit in with their OWN teachings . IF ya KNOW what i mean .
Lest ye become as carnal intellectual scholars YE cannot enter into the KINGDOM .........I trow not
LEST ye become as little children . So again , TRUST in the glorious words of the bible , be as small children who just
love those words . Understanding comes in time . But beware the many scholars
for i say unto you all , many have not entered into the Kingdom of heaven but teach according to their own wisdom .

Uhhhh - NO - I gave the Scholarly version from sources like Strong's Greekm Lexicon and Concordance and Thayer's Greek Lexicon.

Now - since YOU fancy yourself a Greek scholar who knows better than the above-mentioned sources - why don't you give me YOUR explanation for Acts 9:31 - along with the Greek translation.

This chould be interesting . . .

I don't even know what "RCC" is . . .

 

[Mink57]

The guilty should pay, and the innocent should not. This is a pedestrian axiom that is being trashed today when it comes to assessing priestly misconduct, something the Pennsylvania grand jury report has contributed to mightily.

No amount of compassion for those who have been violated by priests should ever be done at the expense of telling the truth, no matter how unpopular it may sound. To do otherwise is cowardly, shameful, and unjust.

What is driving the current mania over this issue is not hard to figure out. I am a sociologist who has been dealing with this issue for a long time, having published articles about it in books and international journals.

Here is what’s going on. There are many vicious critics of the Catholic Church who would like to weaken its moral authority, and will seize on any problem it has to discredit its voice. Why? They hate its teachings on sexuality, marriage, and the family.

These very same people delight in promoting a libertine culture, one which ironically was the very milieu that enticed some very sick priests and their seminarian supervisors to act out in the first place.

There is nothing wrong with Catholic teachings on this subject: If priests had followed their vows, and not their id, we would not have this problem. Those who refuse to use the brakes God gave them, straight or gay, should be shown the gate or never admitted in the first place.
PENNSYLVANIA GRAND JURY REPORT DEBUNKED

What you bolded. 100%. I would love to expand on this, but I don't want to hijack this thread!

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL..I demanded nothing from you.
LOL...no deflection,
On Point...
Christ Jesus’ Church IS His Church.
Christ Jesus Builds His Church.

Absolutely.

Now - can you address the points I made in post #575 - or will you you just sit there, nervously "LOL"-ing while continuing to dodge the questions?

Yup - that's what I thought . . .

 

[covenantee]

They never "stopped" being Catholic.
They became apostate Catholics.

“The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not a mere man (…) he is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief of kings, having plenitude of power.” -Lucius Ferraris, «Prompta Bibliotheca», 1763, Volume VI, ‘Papa II’, pp.25-29

Apostate?

 

[Mink57]

Uhhhh - NO - I gave the Scholarly version from sources like Strong's Greekm Lexicon and Concordance and Thayer's Greek Lexicon.

Now - since YOU fancy yourself a Greek scholar who knows better than the above-mentioned sources - why don't you give me YOUR explanation for Acts 9:31 - along with the Greek translation.

This chould be interesting . . .

I don't even know what "RCC" is . . .

Heads up: "RCC" = Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Illuminator]

Non-denominationals' interpretation had its origin at the time of the Reformation, arising out of a concern for fidelity to the literal meaning of Scripture.

After the century of the Enlightenment, it emerged in Protestantism as a bulwark against liberal exegesis. The actual term "fundamentalist" is connected directly with the American Biblical Congress held at Niagara, New York, in 1895.

At this meeting, conservative Protestant exegetes defined "five points of fundamentalism": the verbal inerrancy of Scripture, the divinity of Christ, his virginal birth, the doctrine of vicarious expiation and the bodily resurrection at the time of the second coming of Christ.

Fundamentalists way of reading the Bible spread to other parts of the world, it gave rise to other ways of interpretation, equally "literalist," in Europe, Asia, Africa and South America. As the 20th century comes to an end, this kind of interpretation is winning more and more adherents, in religious groups and sects, as also among Catholics.

Fundamentalism is right to insist on the divine inspiration of the Bible, the inerrancy of the Word of God and other biblical truths included in its five fundamental points.

But their way of presenting these truths is rooted in an ideology which is not biblical, whatever the proponents of his approach might say.

For it demands an unshakable adherence to rigid doctrinal points of view and imposes, as the only source of teaching for Christian life and salvation, a reading of the Bible which rejects all questioning and any kind of critical research.

The basic problem with Fundamentalist interpretation of this kind is that, refusing to take into account the historical character of biblical revelation, it makes itself incapable of accepting the full truth of the Incarnation itself.

As regards relationships with God, Fundamentalism seeks to escape any closeness of the divine and the human. It refuses to admit that the inspired Word of God has been expressed in human language and that this Word has been expressed, under divine inspiration, by human authors possessed of limited capacities and resources.

For this reason, Fundamentalism tends to treat the biblical text as if it had been dictated word for word by the Spirit. It fails to recognize that the Word of God has been formulated in language and expression conditioned by various periods.

It pays no attention to the literary norms and to the human ways of thinking to be found in the biblical texts, many of which are the result of a process extending over long periods of time and bearing the mark of very diverse historical situations.

Fundamentalism also places undue stress upon the inerrancy of certain details in the biblical texts, especially in what concerns historical events or supposedly scientific truth.

Fundamentalism often historicizes material which from the start never claimed to be historical. It considers historical everything that is reported or recounted with verbs in the past tense, failing to take the necessary account of the possibility of symbolic or figurative meaning.

Fundamentalists often shows a tendency to ignore or to deny the problems presented by the biblical text in its original Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek form. It is often narrowly bound to one fixed translation, whether old or present-day.

By the same token, it fails to take account of the "re-readings" (relectures) of certain texts which are found within the Bible itself.

In what concerns the Gospels, Fundamentalism does not take into account the development of the gospel tradition, but naively confuses the final stage of this tradition (what the evangelists have written) with the initial (the words and deeds of the historical Jesus).
At the same time Fundamentalism neglects an important fact: the way in which the first Christian communities themselves understood the impact produced by Jesus of Nazareth and his message.

But it is precisely there that we find a witness to the apostolic origin of the Christian faith and its direct expression. Fundamentalism thus misrepresents the call voiced by the gospel itself.

Fundamentalism likewise tends to adopt very narrow points of view. They accept the literal reality of an ancient, out-of-date cosmology, simply because it is found expressed in the Bible; this blocks any dialogue with a broader way of seeing the relationship between culture and faith.

Its relying upon a non-critical reading of certain texts of the Bible serves to reinforce political ideas and social attitudes that are marked by prejudices-racism, for example-quite contrary to the Christian gospel.

Finally, in its attachment to the principle "Scripture alone," Fundamentalism separates the interpretation of the Bible from the Tradition, which, guided by the Spirit, has authentically developed in union with Scripture in the heart of the community of faith.

It fails to realize that the New Testament took form within the Christian Church and that it is the Holy Scripture of this Church, the existence of which preceded the composition of the texts.

Because of this, fundamentalism is often anti-Church; it considers of little importance the creeds, the doctrines and liturgical practices which have become part of Church tradition, as well as the teaching function of the Church itself.

It presents itself as a form of private interpretation which does not acknowledge that the Church is founded on the Bible and draws its life and inspiration from Scripture.

The fundamentalist approach is dangerous, for it is attractive to people who look to the Bible for ready answers to the problems of life. It can deceive these people, offering them interpretations that are pious but illusory, instead of telling them that the Bible does not necessarily contain an immediate answer to each and every problem.

Without saying as much in so many words, Fundamentalism actually invites people to a kind of intellectual suicide. They injects into life a false certitude, for it unwittingly confuses the divine substance of the biblical message with what are in fact its human limitations.

(extracted, edited, and plagiarized from the Pontifical Bible Commission)

 

[BreadOfLife]

Heads up: "RCC" = Roman Catholic Church.

There is no such thing.
It is simply, "The Catholic Church".

"Roman" (Latin) simply refers to ONE of about TWENTY Liturgical Rites that are ALL in full communion with each other. These Rites include the Maronit, Byzantine, Melkite ruthenian, Alexandrian and others.
Together - we are teh ONE Catholic Church.

 

[Berserk]

Taken: ↑"LOL....when you find the word Catholic in the Bible, let us know."

What Taken doesn't get is that both the labels "Christian" and "Catholic" were coined in the first-century church of Antioch (Acts 11:26; Ignatius, Smyrnaeans 8:2)! The Ignatius citation is just as good as Luke's because he is a hearer of John and attests the doctrine of Real Presence in the Eucharist in harmony with John (6:55-56). Thus, precedent in a New Testament era church can be found for a Catholic monarchical bishop who refers to the Church as "Catholic" and already accepts the Real Presence in the Eucharist.

 

[amigo de christo]

Uhhhh - NO - I gave the Scholarly version from sources like Strong's Greekm Lexicon and Concordance and Thayer's Greek Lexicon.

Now - since YOU fancy yourself a Greek scholar who knows better than the above-mentioned sources - why don't you give me YOUR explanation for Acts 9:31 - along with the Greek translation.

This chould be interesting . . .

I don't even know what "RCC" is . . .

All the believers , aka churches had rest . That in no way enouraged me to join a harlot or its doctrine .
How on earth can this justify that the CC is the one true church .
IT simply says the churcheS had rest . True lambs gather with true lambs . We are the body .
But in no way will i gather with those who sold out Christ and for centuries
loved to have the pre emience and worship of men .
Having folks to kneel before them and kissing rings . And teaching to worship and pray to the created and not the Creator .
Now Fast forward to today and minus the blood shed its only got worse with that church so called .
The problem is you see things that are not there and all to point to YOUR CHURCH .
Lets POINT to CHRIST . That thing that was formed during the times of constantine was a betrayal to CHURCH of CHRIST
where The original apostels once sat .
Rather odd that when we read what is in the bible , that the apostles seemed to be equals , PETER did not seem to sit over them
Nor was he having them or others KISS HIS RINGS . Paul and others warned well of what was coming .
Men coming in to lead men astray and to draw desciples away After them own selves .
Did not take long either . You ever wonder why folks should have just returned to bible doctrine . SO as they would not be led
astray by men . How on earth acts chapter nine verse thirty one supports a false church , or attending it , Nope .
I had rather be thrown in the lowest prison of mire and dung than to join that church .
And i am not saying that to be mean . But rather because its true . If me having nothing to do with that church
but rather staying focused of preaching Christ and His teachings makes me in danger , JUDGE YE
but i cannot help but to follow the original sound doctrine and lovely teachings of Christ and the apostles .
SOMETHING THE CC abandoned a long , long , long time ago .
No worries you wont see me running to the prosperity gosple ones either , or the emergents
or anything or anyone that promotes dangerous doctrine . Whether or not that makes me saved , YOU JUDGE .
But I KNOW whom i follow and it aint the CC or any other that teaches grave dangers . ITS the GLORIOUS RISEN SAVOIR .
Now on that note i pray all will come out from men who do lead people astray and come back to the original path
the orginal way and the original doctrine first given to the church . Loving every word JESUS ever taught
as well as what the true apostels wrote and recorded .
And let none believe a lie that the other religions like buddism , muslim and etc SERVE the same GOD we DO .
A lie which vatican two made very clear . YEAH i say flee those pulpits and preach the only gosple that will save .
BELIEVE IN CHRIST . ANY who brings this pope francis led social gospel , which are many on all sides , FLEE .
And return to the one pure and holy and only life saving gospel of Christ .
HIS words will be our judge , not the popes , not yours , not mine , HIS WORDS .
SO let no man beleive this inclusvism lie , rather believe IN JESUS and preach HIM and ONLY HIM as the only means to attain salvation .
And JESUS even said , HE who beleives not will be condemned . A truth the popes have not taught in years .
THE CC wants to rule over all religoins and merge them as one . THE SOONER you figure this one out the better .
But to do so means you gotta pander to them . And thus they allow them the idea of being one of us and being saved
EVEN though they deny the one true CHRIST and His gosple . WELL i aint SITTING UNDER that nor having unity with it .