The Blended Gospel

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H. Richard

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דוד חֵן (David) said:
Jesus is God. The one and only. He became the manifestation of God's spirit into human flesh.
I never wrote the words you responded to. If you say I did then quote them. It is not my intention to discuss who and what Jesus is.

It is not the subject if this "the Blended Gospel" thread.
 

H. Richard

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tom55 said:
Are you saying that there is a message for salvation in the NT for the 'Jews only' and a different message of salvation for everyone else? (I am confused about your point)

Also, I thought it was mostly Jews who (at least initially) accepted Jesus as the Messiah? I know the leadership rejected him but we're not the early converts all or mostly Jews?

I have never noticed this before. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.
When Jesus came to the Jews only it was the message that the Messiah and King was Jesus. All through the Jewish History God (Jesus) dealt only with His chosen people, the Jews and the nation of Israel. While the 12 were trying to get the nation of Israel to accept Jesus as their Messiah and King the Jews could be saved by just accepting Jesus as their Messiah and King. If you would see it read the 4 gospels. In all of them it was an effort to get the Jewish nation of Israel to accept Jesus.

But they could not do it so God destroyed the Jewish Temple as a sign that they had been set aside and now, through the goodnews/gospel of grace given to Paul, for all men, not just the Jews, mankind can be saved by putting their faith in what Jesus did on the cross. It was no longer going to be through religions. Under grace Jesus did not set up a new and improved religion run by sinful men as was the Jewish religion.

In man's religions some set themselves up as closer to God and the rest should place their faith in what he/she says. But Jesus says under grace we are all equal in the sight of God.
 

H. Richard

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kerwin said:
H.Rchard,

Eph 3:8-9 includes some first century Jewish mumbo jumbo which is misinterpreted by modern ears but has a figurative meaning. Perhaps the Jews of that age were more poetic that we are today as poets still use figurative words.

Genesis 1 teaches us spoke his word and all that has been created was created. It was his spoken word that God created all things by not Jesus Christ so Paul is replacing the spoken word of God with Jesus Christ in order to make a point.

The mystery of the ages is how godliness can be obtained by fallen humanity and it remains a mystery to many.
*****
All though my forum name is H. Richard I did not post this.

Let me make it clear that I did not write the body of the post above. I have never written the words mumbo jumbo.

The person that made this post did not know how to do it or he intentionally misled everyone.
 

heretoeternity

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When Jesus came to the Jews only it was the message that the Messiah and King was Jesus. All through the Jewish History God (Jesus) dealt only with His chosen people, the Jews and the nation of Israel. While the 12 were trying to get the nation of Israel to accept Jesus as their Messiah and King the Jews could be saved by just accepting Jesus as their Messiah and King. If you would see it read the 4 gospels. In all of them it was an effort to get the Jewish nation of Israel to accept Jesus.

But they could not do it so God destroyed the Jewish Temple as a sign that they had been set aside and now, through the goodnews/gospel of grace given to Paul, for all men, not just the Jews, mankind can be saved by putting their faith in what Jesus did on the cross. It was no longer going to be through religions. Under grace Jesus did not set up a new and improved religion run by sinful men as was the Jewish religion.

In man's religions some set themselves up as closer to God and the rest should place their faith in what he/she says. But Jesus says under grace we are all equal in the sight of God.


So HR you put your salvation in the hands of Paul and not the words and instruction of Jesus in the Gospels? Seems that way...do you realize you have to read the whole chapter Paul is writing, to see to which law Paul is referring? In most cases he is referring to the sacrificial, circumcision law of Moses...NOT God's law..however in many cases he is referring to God's law the ten commandments...example Romans 2, where Paul says "it is doers of the law which are justified, not just hearers of the law" he is obviously referring to God's law the Ten commandments..and in Romans "do we make void the law through faith? God forbid. We establish the law....there are many more but you should study these and think about it.
 

TopherNelson

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Without knowledge of covenants, one cannot understand or teach scripture with any clarity, all covenants have stipulations as well as blessings and curses. Ways to enter and ways to be cut from it. It teaches the basic foundation of our relationship with God throughout all generation. The gospel is the New Covenant. God's words feed your spirit and breath life into people. Covenant studies only help us to further understand the gospel; but is not, itself, the gospel

You cannot ever hope to understand and preach the gospel without a basic understanding of the covenants between God and man.
 

heretoeternity

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Whats not to understand? If you pray for understanding God will let you understand and help you understand His word, even to those who are pre conditioned with false teachings.
 

H. Richard

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heretoeternity said:
So HR you put your salvation in the hands of Paul and not the words and instruction of Jesus in the Gospels? Seems that way...do you realize you have to read the whole chapter Paul is writing, to see to which law Paul is referring? In most cases he is referring to the sacrificial, circumcision law of Moses...NOT God's law..however in many cases he is referring to God's law the ten commandments...example Romans 2, where Paul says "it is doers of the law which are justified, not just hearers of the law" he is obviously referring to God's law the Ten commandments..and in Romans "do we make void the law through faith? God forbid. We establish the law....there are many more but you should study these and think about it.
***
Yes I do since Jesus sent him to me a Gentile.

Acts 9:15
15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.
NKJV

You are very foolish if you can not see the words in this verse.
 

kerwin

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David,

When people talk about "orthodox" it reminds me of the Jews. How they prefer to follow the Talmud rather than the Law of Moses. Your own teaching? I claim no authority to present my own teachings. My teachings comes from God. We may discuss this further in the "unorthodox" forum. I'll present my case.

Sounds good!
 

kerwin

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H. Richard,

All though my forum name is H. Richard I did not post this.

Let me make it clear that I did not write the body of the post above. I have never written the words mumbo jumbo.

The person that made this post did not know how to do it or he intentionally misled everyone.

I wrote it and it is addressed to you using standard addressing. David correctly understood that it is my post. Technically I made an error about indenting the passage from Scripture I quoted from your post but I do not think that is a significant error.

I also qualified the words "mumbo jumbo" as I used them to illustrate how certain language usages appear to modern western humans.
 

H. Richard

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heretoeternity said:
So HR you put your salvation in the hands of Paul and not the words and instruction of Jesus in the Gospels? Seems that way...do you realize you have to read the whole chapter Paul is writing, to see to which law Paul is referring? In most cases he is referring to the sacrificial, circumcision law of Moses...NOT God's law..however in many cases he is referring to God's law the ten commandments...example Romans 2, where Paul says "it is doers of the law which are justified, not just hearers of the law" he is obviously referring to God's law the Ten commandments..and in Romans "do we make void the law through faith? God forbid. We establish the law....there are many more but you should study these and think about it.
***
You can't have law and grace. The two can not be blended into one. Law = man's work. Grace = Jesus' work for us.

Your efforts to blend what Jesus said to the Jews who were under the law into what Paul taught the Gentiles is noted. That is exactly what the judizers were doing to Paul's convert. Paul spent much of his writing telling his convert not to go back under the law. Maybe you ought to read them and see for yourself.
 

H. Richard

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kerwin said:
H. Richard,

All though my forum name is H. Richard I did not post this.

Let me make it clear that I did not write the body of the post above. I have never written the words mumbo jumbo.

The person that made this post did not know how to do it or he intentionally misled everyone.

I wrote it and it is addressed to you using standard addressing. David correctly understood that it is my post. Technically I made an error about indenting the passage from Scripture I quoted from your post but I do not think that is a significant error.

I also qualified the words "mumbo jumbo" as I used them to illustrate how certain language usages appear to modern western humans.
***
Standard addressing would have a box around my name and writing so that others can see who wrote what. You did not do this and I gather from what you wrote here you have no intention of doing it so that others can note who said what. okay.
 

tom55

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H. Richard said:
When Jesus came to the Jews only it was the message that the Messiah and King was Jesus. All through the Jewish History God (Jesus) dealt only with His chosen people, the Jews and the nation of Israel. While the 12 were trying to get the nation of Israel to accept Jesus as their Messiah and King the Jews could be saved by just accepting Jesus as their Messiah and King. If you would see it read the 4 gospels. In all of them it was an effort to get the Jewish nation of Israel to accept Jesus.

But they could not do it so God destroyed the Jewish Temple as a sign that they had been set aside and now, through the good news/gospel of grace given to Paul, for all men, not just the Jews, mankind can be saved by putting their faith in what Jesus did on the cross. It was no longer going to be through religions. Under grace Jesus did not set up a new and improved religion run by sinful men as was the Jewish religion.

In man's religions some set themselves up as closer to God and the rest should place their faith in what he/she says. But Jesus says under grace we are all equal in the sight of God.
This doesn't make any sense. Scripture doesn't even back up your theory.

It is true "we are all equal in the sight of God" but we are not all prophets, elders, presbyter's, deacons etc. etc.

Scripture clearly sets up a hierarchal church and says that no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. That doesn't make it "mans religion" as you so falsely believe. It is still a religion of God but enforced by man. Your theory makes no sense, is clearly heretical, not based on scripture or Christian History and is only accepted those that twist scripture.
 

FHII

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tom55 said:
This doesn't make any sense. Scripture doesn't even back up your theory.

It is true "we are all equal in the sight of God" but we are not all prophets, elders, presbyter's, deacons etc. etc.

Scripture clearly sets up a hierarchal church and says that no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. That doesn't make it "mans religion" as you so falsely believe. It is still a religion of God but enforced by man. Your theory makes no sense, is clearly heretical, not based on scripture or Christian History and is only accepted those that twist scripture.
Tom55,

I understand H. Richard's point and it is valid in an overall view. But I must agree with you. Paul spent alot of time in his writing outlining a very simple structure for Church leadership. In fact you paraphrased Paul from Eph 6 or 1 cor 12 (sounds closer to the latter).

I will say a couple of things. 1st Paul did prophesy in Acts 20 the grevious wolves would enter. John in Revelations also saw it (speaking of the 7 Churches).

Second, We must understand that the leaders must be genious and stick to the Word. The highest leader must be an apostle (Yes, Christ is the head but an apostle speaks in Christ's place and is his ambassador. In other words, he gets his orders from Christ).
Third, sadly I don't think this is posible on a large scale today. In other words I don't think its happening in any denonination today and stopped working soon after Paul departed.

There is a biblical way to run a community of believers. I do believe its happening today, but not in large Churches or denominations.
 

TopherNelson

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"Our very salvation, based on grace, hangs on the truth of our faith. God gives no grace to one without real faith and faith is made real by obedience."The man who hears these teaching and obeys them not is like a man who builds his house on sand: the winds came and the floods beat on that house and it came down with a great crash." Those who do not obey Yeshua are not believers at all. If you don't at least try to obey YOUR LORD AND GOD, then you waste your breath praying to Him. This is because trust and commitment DEMANDS everything."
 

heretoeternity

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H. Richard said:
***
You can't have law and grace. The two can not be blended into one. Law = man's work. Grace = Jesus' work for us.

Your efforts to blend what Jesus said to the Jews who were under the law into what Paul taught the Gentiles is noted. That is exactly what the judizers were doing to Paul's convert. Paul spent much of his writing telling his convert not to go back under the law. Maybe you ought to read them and see for yourself.
God's grace plus His law (repentance) equals SALVATION....even Paul cannot save you....it takes Jesus sacrifice on the Cross and the repentance and obedience to God's law..(the ten commandments)...
 

kerwin

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H.Richard,

Standard addressing would have a box around my name and writing so that others can see who wrote what. You did not do this and I gather from what you wrote here you have no intention of doing it so that others can note who said what. okay.

I see what you mean as that seems to be practiced here. I was speaking on a broader front. Perhaps I will take time and figure out how it is done. Thank you.
 

heretoeternity

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H. Richard said:
***
You can't have law and grace. The two can not be blended into one. Law = man's work. Grace = Jesus' work for us.

Your efforts to blend what Jesus said to the Jews who were under the law into what Paul taught the Gentiles is noted. That is exactly what the judizers were doing to Paul's convert. Paul spent much of his writing telling his convert not to go back under the law. Maybe you ought to read them and see for yourself.
Wrong HR...law is God's work, and His requirement for mankind don't you know that by now? Obviously not!