The 'blessed virgin Mary'

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

kcnalp

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2020
7,326
1,782
113
Indianapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"Mary a sinner" contradicts all the reformers, it was not a reformist issue, but a post-reformist invention. It crawled out of the sewage of false 18th century philosophies of the Enlightenment era. Before that, every Protestant church on the planet accepted the reformist view that Mary was conceived without sin. In reaction to Protestant liberalism and modernism, the Fundamentalist movement began in 1906. Modernism was condemned by the pope as "The Synthesis of all Heresies". in 1907.
"Mary a sinner" is a 200 year old man made tradition that has infected sections of Protestantism like a virus.
So Paul who wrote nearly half the NT is wrong and the Pope is right? Nah.

Romans 3:23 (NKJV)
23 All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
 

Hemlock

Active Member
Apr 6, 2021
198
142
43
71
WACO
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
MEDIATRIX is wrong to apply to Mary - for the Bible says there is ONE MEDIATOR

1Ti 2:5

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Mary is THEOTOKOS, but not MEDIATRIX
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truth7t7

robert derrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2021
7,669
1,418
113
63
Houston, tx
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Mary dosent bring the gift of salvation as the Roman Catholic Church Falsely Teaches.

From The RCC Catechism #969 Before Your Eyes, Mary briging the gift of eternal salvation?

Mary, The Catechism Of The Catholic Church

969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation … Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."
Actually, according to my new knowledge in the Catholic religion, whoever wrote this fell short of 'Mary's uninterruptedly and sustained unwaveringness: it did not begin with her consent at the angel's Announcement, but rather it all truly began at her Immaculate Conception, when She Herself was flawlessly conceived by her own mother, even as Jesus would be, in order that she may go on to immaculately be uninterrupted in Her sustained and unwavering order of grace.

So, I'm wondering. Where in the wide wide world of Catholic deity-making is Mary's own Mother?? Shouldn't she be honored at the wedding feast, even as Mary? Maybe the Blessed Immaculate Mother of the Mother Mary? ('Mary' is Demeter, and Mary's 'Mother' is Gaia)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truth7t7

robert derrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2021
7,669
1,418
113
63
Houston, tx
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So Paul who wrote nearly half the NT is wrong and the Pope is right? Nah.

Romans 3:23 (NKJV)
23 All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

When Catholic canon is above Scripture, then yes. Paul is wrong when Pope not agree with Paul. (And since Pope is Peter incarnate, and not Paul, then there is no contradiction there)

And there are two who have not sinned according to Catholic canon fire, because two were not born in sin: Jesus by the the Blessed Virgin Birth, and Mary by the Flawless Immaculate Conception.

So, as you see, it all perfectly fits together. Now, if you would stop your sola scriptura reliance on the likes of Paul, you won't be so deceived and confused by him.

(My God, I think I'm starting to think like a Catholic thinks! I need a break)
 

Illuminator

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2020
3,389
1,195
113
72
Hamilton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
So Paul who wrote nearly half the NT is wrong and the Pope is right? Nah.
Romans 3:23 (NKJV)
23 All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Please set aside your scriptural microscope, "all" does not always mean "every single one". Rom. 3:23 – Some Protestants use this verse “all have sinned” in an attempt to prove that Mary was also with sin. But “all have sinned ” only means that all are subject to original sin. Mary was spared from original sin by God, not herself. The popular analogy is God let us fall in the mud puddle, and cleaned us up afterward through baptism. In Mary’s case, God did not let her enter the mud puddle. God can do that because He is God. Adam and Eve and the angels were created without sin (before The Fall) so let's not downplay the power of God.

Rom. 3:23 – “all have sinned” also refers only to those able to commit sin. This is not everyone. For example, infants, the retarded, and the senile cannot sin.

Rom. 3:23 – finally, “all have sinned,” but Jesus must be an exception to this rule. This means that Mary can be an exception as well. Note that the Greek word for all is “pantes.”

1 Cor. 15:22 – in Adam all (“pantes”) have died, and in Christ all (“pantes”) shall live. This proves that “all” does not mean “every single one.” This is because not all have died (such as Enoch and Elijah who were taken up to heaven), and not all will go to heaven (because Jesus said so).

Rom. 5:12 – Paul says that death spread to all (“pantes”) men. Again, this proves that “all” does not mean “every single one” because death did not spread to all men (as we have seen with Enoch and Elijah).

Rom. 5:19 – here Paul says “many (not all) were made sinners.” Paul uses “polloi,” not “pantes.” Is Paul contradicting what he said in Rom. 3:23? Of course not. Paul means that all are subject to original sin, but not all reject God.

Rom. 3:10-11 – Protestants also use this verse to prove that all human beings are sinful and thus Mary must be sinful. But see Psalm 14 which is the basis of the verse.

Psalm 14 – this psalm does not teach that all humans are sinful. It only teaches that, among the wicked, all are sinful. The righteous continue to seek God.

Psalm 53:1-3 – “there is none that does good” expressly refers to those who have fallen away. Those who remain faithful do good, and Jesus calls such faithful people “good.”

MEDIATRIX is wrong to apply to Mary - for the Bible says there is ONE MEDIATOR

1Ti 2:5

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Mary is THEOTOKOS, but not MEDIATRIX
Once again, Pope Francis says Mary is not the ‘co-redemptrix’

1 Tim 2:1-2 – because Jesus Christ is the one mediator between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5), many Protestants deny the Catholic belief that the saints on earth and in heaven can mediate on our behalf. But before Paul’s teaching about Jesus as the “one mediator,” Paul urges supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people. Paul is thus appealing for mediation from others besides Christ, the one mediator. Why?

1 Tim 2:3 – because this subordinate mediation is good and acceptable to God our Savior. Because God is our Father and we are His children, God invites us to participate in Christ’s role as mediator.

1 Tim. 2:5 – therefore, although Jesus Christ is the sole mediator between God and man, there are many intercessors (subordinate mediators).

1 Cor. 3:9 – God invites us to participate in Christ’s work because we are God’s “fellow workers” and one family in the body of Christ. God wants His children to participate. The phrase used to describe “fellow workers” is “sunergoi,” which literally means synergists, or cooperators with God in salvific matters. Does God need fellow workers? Of course not, but this shows how much He, as Father, loves His children. God wants us to work with Him.

Mark 16:20 – this is another example of how the Lord “worked with them” (“sunergountos”). God cooperates with us. Out of His eternal love, He invites our participation.

Rom. 8:28 – God “works for good with” (the Greek is “sunergei eis agathon”) those who love Him. We work as subordinate mediators.

2 Cor. 6:1 – “working together” (the Greek is “sunergountes”) with him, don’t accept His grace in vain. God allows us to participate in His work, not because He needs our help, but because He loves us and wants to exalt us in His Son. It is like the father who lets his child join him in carrying the groceries in the house. The father does not need help, but he invites the child to assist to raise up the child in dignity and love.
SAINTS AND INTERCESSORY PRAYER - Scripture Catholic
 
Last edited:

Illuminator

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2020
3,389
1,195
113
72
Hamilton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
"Co" in co-redeemer, co-Mediatrix, etc. is Collaborator: Mary "assisted" in our redemption and she assists in our mediation with Christ.

This context does not give Mary equal status with Christ, or usurp Christ in anyway. She, rather, merely cooperated and collaborated with Christ.

In a sense we, too, are co-mediators every time we pray for someone. We are offering intercession/mediation for our friend when we pray for them. This does not make us God or equal with God, it only means that we are cooperating with the economy of God when he asked us to be a family and pray for each other.

In terms of Mary as co-redeemer, she did in fact, cooperate in the redemption. When she made her fiat to accept God's will for her to bear the Christ Child she was cooperating in the redemption of mankind for it was through her that the Redeemer came into the world.

redeemer-in-the-womb.jpg

REDEEMER IN THE WOMB​

The solution to problems like this is not suppression but education. "co" just simply does NOT mean "equal to".

At this time the theory of co-redeemer is not Church dogma, and is not binding for belief by the faithful (and never will be). But the concept should not wrinkle our shirts if we understand the nature of her role in the incarnation and the true meaning of "co".
 
Last edited:

kcnalp

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2020
7,326
1,782
113
Indianapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Please set aside your scriptural microscope, "all" does not always mean "every single one". Rom. 3:23 – Some Protestants use this verse “all have sinned” in an attempt to prove that Mary was also with sin. But “all have sinned ” only means that all are subject to original sin. Mary was spared from original sin by God, not herself. The popular analogy is God let us fall in the mud puddle, and cleaned us up afterward through baptism. In Mary’s case, God did not let her enter the mud puddle. God can do that because He is God. Adam and Eve and the angels were created without sin (before The Fall) so let's not downplay the power of God.

Rom. 3:23 – “all have sinned” also refers only to those able to commit sin. This is not everyone. For example, infants, the retarded, and the senile cannot sin.

Rom. 3:23 – finally, “all have sinned,” but Jesus must be an exception to this rule. This means that Mary can be an exception as well. Note that the Greek word for all is “pantes.”

1 Cor. 15:22 – in Adam all (“pantes”) have died, and in Christ all (“pantes”) shall live. This proves that “all” does not mean “every single one.” This is because not all have died (such as Enoch and Elijah who were taken up to heaven), and not all will go to heaven (because Jesus said so).

Rom. 5:12 – Paul says that death spread to all (“pantes”) men. Again, this proves that “all” does not mean “every single one” because death did not spread to all men (as we have seen with Enoch and Elijah).

Rom. 5:19 – here Paul says “many (not all) were made sinners.” Paul uses “polloi,” not “pantes.” Is Paul contradicting what he said in Rom. 3:23? Of course not. Paul means that all are subject to original sin, but not all reject God.

Rom. 3:10-11 – Protestants also use this verse to prove that all human beings are sinful and thus Mary must be sinful. But see Psalm 14 which is the basis of the verse.

Psalm 14 – this psalm does not teach that all humans are sinful. It only teaches that, among the wicked, all are sinful. The righteous continue to seek God.

Psalm 53:1-3 – “there is none that does good” expressly refers to those who have fallen away. Those who remain faithful do good, and Jesus calls such faithful people “good.”
Hebrews 4:14-15 (NKJV)
14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
1 Peter 2:21-22 (NKJV)

21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
22 "Who committed no sin, Nor was deceit found in His mouth";
2 Corinthians 5:21 (NKJV)
21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Hmm, no mention of Mary being sinless. NONE!
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,975
3,415
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Catholics aren't men?
Absolutely.
Difference is - Christ's Church is guided by the Holy Spirit to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).

You see - Jesus told the leaders of His Church that WHATEVER THEY loosed or held bound on earth would ALSO be loosed or held bound in Heaven (Matt. 16:19, Matt. 18:18, John 20:23).
He said that His Church was His mouthpiece:
Luke 10:16

Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

Are YOU listening - or are you rejecting?
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,975
3,415
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
MEDIATRIX is wrong to apply to Mary - for the Bible says there is ONE MEDIATOR

1Ti 2:5

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Mary is THEOTOKOS, but not MEDIATRIX
Actually - 1 Tim 2:5 is referring to the fact that ONLY Jesus's sacrifice can bring peace between us and God.
It is in THIS sense that He is our "only mediator".

However - we are ALL called upon to be mediators for each other (1 Cor. 3:9, 1 Tim. 2:1-3, Eph 6:18, James 5:16, 1 John 5:16).
Why do you think Peter calls us a "Royal Priesthood" (1 Peter 2:5-9)?? The very definition of a Priest is "one who mediates".

Thi is precisely why Paul says:
Col. 1:24
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church


That means YOU, me and EVERY one of that "great cloud of witnesses" (Heb. 12:1) that surrounds us is a mediator in Christ.
 

robert derrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2021
7,669
1,418
113
63
Houston, tx
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"Mary was spared from original sin by God, not herself."
"Co" in co-redeemer, co-Mediatrix, etc. is Collaborator: Mary "assisted" in our redemption and she assists in our mediation with Christ. This context does not give Mary equal status with Christ, or usurp Christ in anyway. She, rather, merely cooperated and collaborated with Christ."


Immaculate Conception without sin for Virgin Birth without sin.

Equal in birth and life and co-redeemer: but not equal with Christ.

Idol makers but not idol worshippers. We only make idols. We don't worship them!

Being co-idol makers does not make us equal to idol worshippers!

This is the end of the food chain, when Scripture has been determine 'insufficient', and other men's traditions, teachings, and canons must be co-supportive...but not equal!

Catholic Religion proselytes: Plankton of doctrine. Doctrinal plankton.

"When the heart rejects the Bible as the only written Word of God, then the mind loses all intelligence and reasoning capacity in the things of God." (Anonymous)

'Mary' the Mother of all silly women led away captive by Catholic Creeps who teach traditions of men for doctrine of Christ. (2 Tim 3:6)

I guess that's not so bad as 'Babylon' the Mother of all whores.
 

robert derrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2021
7,669
1,418
113
63
Houston, tx
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Adam did not have a mother. And so neither did the Lord who created all mankind.

To call Mary the Mother of God, is not the same as knowing she was the mother of the man Jesus, who was God in the flesh.

God the Son only has a Father, Who made Him flesh in Mary's womb by the Spirit of God.

There are only two that walked the earth who had no mother: Adam, and God the Son, the 2nd Adam.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kcnalp

kcnalp

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2020
7,326
1,782
113
Indianapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Adam did not have a mother. And so neither did the Lord who created all mankind.

To call Mary the Mother of God, is not the same as knowing she was the mother of the man Jesus, who was God in the flesh.

God the Son only has a Father, Who made Him flesh in Mary's womb by the Spirit of God.

There are only two that walked the earth who had no mother: Adam, and God the Son, the 2nd Adam.
It's almost like they are trying to say the Son of God had a Father and Mother God.
 
  • Like
Reactions: robert derrick

robert derrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2021
7,669
1,418
113
63
Houston, tx
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"I and my Father are one." (John 10)

There is no separation nor special distinction between the Son and the Father, except that One came down from heaven, while the Other remained in heaven.

Therefore, for Mary to called the Mother of God the Son is to cause a special distinction between them, that would break the Scripture.

The only way to say God the Son has a Mother without breaking the Scripture is to say that God the Son and God the Father have a Mother.

Mary worshipping Catholics cannot be saved, because they are not washed in the blood of the Lamb, because they honor the Mother above the Son and therefore also above the Father.

"Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also." (I John 2)

Making 'Mary' the Mother of God denies the Son and the Father as one, and so denies both the Son and the Father.
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I have no objection to referring to Mary as the blessed virgin Mary, because every saint in Christ Jesus presented to the Lord, shall be a blessed and chaste virgin (2 Cor 11:2).

All that abide in Christ therefore can be fairly addressed as the blessed virgin 'so and so'.

The only One in heaven that is and ever shall be noticeably and visibly distinct from all others is Jesus, who stands as a slain Lamb in the midst of the throne(Rev 5), i.e. the prints and marks of His crucifixion shall remain in His resurrected body for all to see, as a perpetual reminder of His cross.

Other than Himself, the 12 Apostles of the Lamb, aside from Judas and including Paul, shall be specially remembered in the foundation stones of heavenly New Jerusalem, having their names written in them. Likewise the names of the 12 tribes of Israel shall be remembered by being written on the gates of the that City.

Other than these examples, I see no other blessed saint with Jesus in heaven that is recognized by God as 'special' to Himself and His ministry. None shall be better or worse, higher or lower, honored more or less, nor specially named than any other...

Does anyone know why believers in Jesus are so intent on falsely making Mary a 'perpetual' virgin on earth after she gave birth to Jesus? I know it is a false teaching and woefully vain worshipping, but my question is why?

cos it has to do with the divinity of Christ

Isa 7:14 Lk 1:31
one son
Lk 1:31 one child from her womb
Lk 1:34 no sex

Scripture call her blessed

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Lk 1:48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
 

robert derrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2021
7,669
1,418
113
63
Houston, tx
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"Scripture call her blessed"

So then, there's no argument here. Mary was blessed just like any other believer is blessed with the opportunity to prove their faith and be part of God's plan for redeeming humanity.

"Blessed are the poor in spirit...Blessed are they that mourn...Blessed are the meek...Blessed are the peacemakers...Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness...Blessed are the merciful...Blessed are the pure in heart...Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake...Blessed are ye...Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona...Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed...Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb...Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection...Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

So then, we are in agreement, Mary was as blessed among women that believe, as Peter was blessed among men that believe.

The only Scripture where any believer is 'more blessed' is when they are more blessed to give than to receive. (Acts 20)

Other than that, the only believers 'more' anything than any other are the Bereans who are more noble, because they prove by sola scriptura what anyone teaches as being true with God or not.

I'm glad we've finally gotten it resolved.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ronald David Bruno

Ronald David Bruno

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2020
3,900
1,922
113
Southern
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I have no objection to referring to Mary as the blessed virgin Mary, because every saint in Christ Jesus presented to the Lord, shall be a blessed and chaste virgin (2 Cor 11:2).

All that abide in Christ therefore can be fairly addressed as the blessed virgin 'so and so'.

The only One in heaven that is and ever shall be noticeably and visibly distinct from all others is Jesus, who stands as a slain Lamb in the midst of the throne(Rev 5), i.e. the prints and marks of His crucifixion shall remain in His resurrected body for all to see, as a perpetual reminder of His cross.

Other than Himself, the 12 Apostles of the Lamb, aside from Judas and including Paul, shall be specially remembered in the foundation stones of heavenly New Jerusalem, having their names written in them. Likewise the names of the 12 tribes of Israel shall be remembered by being written on the gates of the that City.

Other than these examples, I see no other blessed saint with Jesus in heaven that is recognized by God as 'special' to Himself and His ministry. None shall be better or worse, higher or lower, honored more or less, nor specially named than any other...

Does anyone know why believers in Jesus are so intent on falsely making Mary a 'perpetual' virgin on earth after she gave birth to Jesus? I know it is a false teaching and woefully vain worshipping, but my question is why?
Good post, but a no win situation and opening up a Catholic can of worms.
"Blessed" simply means happy. She was happy, proud ti be of service ti God and very special.
Mary was chosen, she was a descendant in a particular blood line as well, so was Joseph. God chose her before she was born so in other words, she didn't earn that choice. God prepared her from birth. It was all God's work. She cooperated, good girl! She got a "Well done good and faithful servant" and rewards, but that is it.
She was the mother of Jesus, the Son of man, His human nature, not the mother of God, His spiritual nature. She did not exist prior to her birth. Praying to her or even asking for her prayers go out void. Jesus instructed us to pray to the Father. He gave us a template to follow. He never said for us to ask Moses or Elijah for their prayers, not did He imply we should try to communicate with the dead.
Actually, I think Mary is up their shaking her head at the RCC - IF she is aware of what's going on at all?
 
Last edited:

robert derrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2021
7,669
1,418
113
63
Houston, tx
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Good post, but a no win situation and opening up a Catholic can of worms.
"Blessed" simply means happy. She was happy, proud ti be of service ti God and very special.
Mary was chosen, she was a descendant in a particular blood line as well, so was Joseph. God chose her before she was born so in other words, she didn't earn that choice. God prepared her from birth. It was all God's work. She cooperated, good girl! She got a "Well done good and faithful servant" and rewards, but that is it.
She was the mother of Jesus, the Son of man, His human nature, not the mother of God, His spiritual nature. She did not exist prior to her birth. Praying to her or even asking for her prayers go out void. Jesus instructed us to pray to the Father. He gave us a template to follow. He never said for us to ask Moses or Elijah for their prayers, not did He imply we should try to communicate with the dead.
Actually, I think Mary is up their shaking her head at the RCC - IF she is aware of what's going on at all?


"Actually, I think Mary is up their shaking her head at the RCC" Exactly. I've been surmising all along, that the one probably most offended by all the mystical deifying and idolatry in her name is the true Mary in heaven herself!

I.e. if their 'mother' really did manifest herself somewhere on earth, she would be slapping the unholy snot out of them.:D
(So, now I know what RCC is: Roman Catholic Church:cool:)

"God chose her before she was born so in other words, she didn't earn that choice." Excellent. Hadn't thought of that before.

"a no win situation and opening up a Catholic can of worms." Actually it was intended as a sort of confirmation of the title they give her, without the necessity of deifying her. But then they did come out with all their worms and piggy pearls of idolatry, and so I am much more educated in it from the lion's mouth, so to speak.

"not the mother of God" They would say Mother of God.

"He never said for us to ask Moses or Elijah for their prayers, not did He imply we should try to communicate with the dead." Another great point. God never ever wrote anything about prayers or baptisms for the dead, not even the dead in Christ, nor trying to pray for their intercession, which is as necromancy! along with witchcraft and idolatry. (1 Sam 15)

"She did not exist prior to her birth." And this is where they really floored me. I always that the 'Immaculate Conception' was the virgin birth of Jesus. But in fact it is the sort of 'virgin birth' of Mary! Which exactly makes her as equal to Jesus by birth, and produces the 'Mother of God' syndrome. I.e. Demeter, Mother Nature.

The Catholic religion has absolutely nothing to do with the faith of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. They only pay Him lip service, and use His name for effect to proselytize people into a paganized version of Christianity.

Their 'fathers' are not the 'successors' of the apostles (of which there are none in the first place), even as their pope is not successor to Peter (of whom there is none). Rather their 'fathers' came along around the 3rd and 4th centuries to usurp the 'inheritance' of the apostolic doctrine, and take over the orthodoxy of the church body, and establish it as something completely different to what Scripture teaches.

I believe it all came about during the Arian heresy, where certain wholly ignorant so-called 'leaders' of the church, uneducated in the Scripture of truth (Dan 12), decided that Scripture alone 'sola scriptura', was insufficient to effectively combat said heresy, and so they brought in other oral and written traditions made by men out of Scripture to do so. And then eventually sola scriptura was no longer sufficient in the matters of faith itself!

And woolah: Catholic canons as authoritative as Scripture. So that now, Catholic canon is greater than Scripture. They have gone of no sola scriptura to no Scripture at all, only sola canonua. Or Catholic Canon Manua. :D

The Catholic religion was made by man, their church fathers, out of the faith of Jesus, even as the Jews' religion was made by their fathers out of the faith of Moses. Sort of like the Christian beast following the 1st Jewish beast. (Rev 13)

Martin Luther's 'reform' was to return to faith of Jesus only, by returning to Scripture only. Sola Scriptura is Scriptural teaching:

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, all else is by tradition of man, which usually makes Scripture void. Even as their prayers are now void of faith of Jesus, as you say.
 

ReChoired

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2019
2,679
633
113
Region
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Only Mary of Joseph was called "blessed among women," ...
Hmmm,

Jdg_5:24 Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be, blessed shall she be above women in the tent.​

Jael is higher than Mary according to such strange logic.

Mary is indeed, “blessed” (Luke 1:42,45,48), but so were many woman of scripture who believed and were obedient (Genesis 1:28, 5:2, 30:13; Judges 5:24; 1 Samuel 2:20, 25:32-33, see also the blessed “church in the wilderness”, the great Woman of God, Deuteronomy 28:3,4,5,6; Psalms 89:15, 106:3, 112:1, 119:1,2, 128:1; Proverbs 8:34, 31:28; Isaiah 32:30; Jeremiah 17:7; Malachi 3:12; Romans 4:7-8; Galatians 3:9, etc), for instance, see:

Genesis 30:13 KJB - And Leah said, Happy am I, for the daughters will call me blessed: and she called his name Asher.

Judges 5:24 KJB - Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be, blessed shall she be above women in the tent.

Proverbs 31:28 KJB - Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.

Song of Solomon 6:9 KJB - My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.​

Likewise anyone obedient to God, and receptive to His grace:

Psalms 1:1 KJB - Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Psalms 32:1 KJB - A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Psalms 118:26 KJB - Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.
Psalms 128:1 KJB - A Song of degrees. Blessed is every one that feareth the LORD; that walketh in his ways.
Isaiah 56:2 KJB - Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
Jeremiah 17:7 KJB - Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.
Matthew 5:3 KJB - Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:4 KJB - Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Matthew 5:5 KJB - Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Matthew 5:6 KJB - Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Matthew 5:7 KJB - Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Matthew 5:8 KJB - Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Matthew 5:9 KJB - Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Matthew 5:10 KJB - Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:11 KJB - Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Matthew 11:6 KJB - And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.
Matthew 13:16 KJB - But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Matthew 24:46 KJB - Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Matthew 25:34 KJB - Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Luke 6:20 KJB - And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
Luke 6:21 KJB - Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.
Luke 6:22 KJB - Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
Luke 7:23 KJB - And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.
John 20:29 KJB - Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Revelation 22:7 KJB - Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.​

So that none would mistake the blessing that Mary had, Jesus said:

Luke 11:27 KJB - And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
Luke 11:28 KJB - But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Luke 23:39 KJB - For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.​

Thus, it is the presence of Jesus that is the blessing to those whom He dwells with/in, not that Mary of herself or we are anything. For we are all dust and ashes (Genesis 18:27, 3:19). Mary, of the scriptures, is just the empty house/vessel, as we all are, except Christ Jesus abide within these earthy tabernacles:

1 Corinthians 6:19 KJB - What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
2 Corinthians 5:1 KJB - For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 Corinthians 5:2 KJB - For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2 Corinthians 5:3 KJB - If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2 Corinthians 5:4 KJB - For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
2 Corinthians 5:5 KJB - Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
2 Corinthians 5:6 KJB - Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2 Peter 1:13 KJB - Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;
2 Peter 1:14 KJB - Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.​
 
Last edited:

Curtis

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2021
3,268
1,574
113
70
KC
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Only Mary of Joseph was called "blessed among women," as in "held in reverence: VENERATED," by the angel, Gabriel, which is why he greeted Her with the word "hail," as in "praise." (Lk. 1:28;30), and all generations shall call Her blessed in this way. (Lk. 1:48)

Yet Jesus clearly said EVERYONE is His mother, that does the will of God.

Jesus has many mothers, therefore, besides Mary.

One can’t escape facts, just ignore facts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ReChoired