The Bliss of Religious Homeostasis - Don't Rock the Boat

[St. SteVen]

Much of this seems so cynical to me.

I assume that your heart is in the right place, because that's what Jesus has trained me to do, and because we've talked at length outside this platform. But you sometimes seem like a different person here.

Yes. That's fair, I suppose.

The church I currently attend is fine with me.
Not that I agree with everything.
But if I left this church, I would probably stop attending all together.
For a while at least. I couldn't stomach a traditional church.

What religious views have you reconsidered lately?

No new hot topics from me. I'll keep you posted.

It could be that some of us simply have different questions than you do, Steve.

Or isn't that allowed in the tribe?

Please bring your questions.
I value them more than the answers.

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[St. SteVen]

What religious views have you reconsidered lately?

Here's one. (new topic)

Are Christians the biggest barrier to a renewed relationship with God?

Sometimes when I am at church, I ask myself. "Would you associate with these people if you were part of the same fellowship?" Some I would, but some I wouldn't. Why is that? Oftentimes Christian society is so off-putting to the average person. If a renewed relationship with God requires...

www.christianityboard.com

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[St. SteVen]

St Steven has undivided "loyalty" to a Satanic theology that teaches unbelievers that they dont have to trust in Christ and be born agian before they die, because after they die, they will all be saved. = "universalism"

Once again, that is a complete mischaracterization of UR and myself. (false witness)

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[Behold]

Once again, that is a complete mischaracterization of UR and myself. (false witness)

"universalism" was teaching unbelievers that they dont have to trust in Christ and be born again, before they die.......because everyone is saved in the end........long before you became this satanic gospel's leading spokesperson on THIS FOURM.. @St. SteVen

 

[quietthinker]

St Steven has undivided "loyalty" to a Satanic theology that teaches unbelievers that they dont have to trust in Christ and be born agian before they die, because after they die, they will all be saved. = "universalism"

So, What is your point of view on that, and should this theology that is designed to lead unbelievers into hell be allowed to continue be taught on a Christian forum ?? @Carl Emerson ?

I can see you favour the older brother Behold!

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

This strikes me as divisive.

We are not to pass judgment on our brother, but rather develop 'devotion'.

Imagine if that were true.
We would be indifferent to a sister or brother walking the wrong path.

Rather than judge this to be the case,using the righteous judgement Jesus prescribed, wed selfishly devote ourselves to our own walk. And let that stray sheep wander off.

And because we bought the false teaching that insisted we weren't to lead them aright by judging they were wrong.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

I can see you favour the older brother Behold!

I'd report him for saying our brother is following Satanic doctrine.

 

[quietthinker]

I'd report him for saying our brother is following Satanic doctrine.

No my dear, I have no interest in snitching. The treasure given is not tight fisted, mean or retaliatory.......let's invite him to the party as well!

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

No my dear, I have no interest in snitching. The treasure given is not tight fisted, mean or retaliatory.......let's invite him to the party as well!

God is the only one that calls anyone to the party.

And when someone implies a Christian is a Satanist,if the accused choose to report the rule break,that's not snitching. That's insuring hateful people don't slander a Christian and get away with it until or unless only God changes their nature.

That's what.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Agree.
As is your sad mischaracterization of Christian Universalism. (Ultimate Redemption)

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Where did you learn it from ???

By the way - the link to a certain post now goes nowhere.

I might comment that without grace we would all be deceived.

Further the deceiver can render us blind to deception.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
As is your sad mischaracterization of Christian Universalism. (Ultimate Redemption)

Where did you learn it from ???

We had a family situation. My sister-in-law informed my mother-in-law
that she couldn't believe in a God that would put people in hell.
Mom was pretty upset. She was afraid of losing a child to unbelief.
The church had taught her that those who succumb to unbelief will be lost for all eternity.
Mom was devastated. Understandably.

The family had been raised evangelical, as had I. Which left me with nothing to offer but the standard apologetics about hell.
This left me with a hollow feeling inside. My "biblical" defense did nothing to help the situation. Mom was still sobbing.
There was really nothing we could say to my sister-in-law to help the situation. I thought she was at least half right.

The hell doctrine bothered me too. Although the church was backing away from the hellfire and brimstone message...
It was still there. Now softened to "Eternal separation from God." (whatever that means)

I did some research to see if I could bolster my hell belief enough to hang onto it. Again, the empty rhetoric prevailed.
What was hell and why did God create it the way the church described it? Such pointless and sadistic horror.
What kind of a...? (sigh)

Then a forum friend whose biblical knowledge I trusted said that he didn't believe in a forever burning hell. Say what?
I responded by saying, "Tell me more." He directed me to a forum topic where Universalism was being discussed.
So, I did some research in that direction. My eyes were opened to something I had never seen before when I read this verse.
I had seen the verse before but never noticed the words, "not only for ours". Say what? That's where it began.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

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[Carl Emerson]

St. SteVen said:
As is your sad mischaracterization of Christian Universalism. (Ultimate Redemption)

We had a family situation. My sister-in-law informed my mother-in-law
that she couldn't believe in a God that would put people in hell.
Mom was pretty upset. She was afraid of losing a child to unbelief.
The church had taught her that those who succumb to unbelief will be lost for all eternity.
Mom was devastated. Understandably.

The family had been raised evangelical, as had I. Which left me with nothing to offer but the standard apologetics about hell.
This left me with a hollow feeling inside. My "biblical" defense did nothing to help the situation. Mom was still sobbing.
There was really nothing we could say to my sister-in-law to help the situation. I thought she was at least half right.

The hell doctrine bothered me too. Although the church was backing away from the hellfire and brimstone message...
It was still there. Now softened to "Eternal separation from God." (whatever that means)

I did some research to see if I could bolster my hell belief enough to hang onto it. Again, the empty rhetoric prevailed.
What was hell and why did God create it the way the church described it? Such pointless and sadistic horror.
What kind of a...? (sigh)

Then a forum friend whose biblical knowledge I trusted said that he didn't believe in a forever burning hell. Say what?
I responded by saying, "Tell me more." He directed me to a forum topic where Universalism was being discussed.
So, I did some research in that direction. My eyes were opened to something I had never seen before when I read this verse.
I had seen the verse before but never noticed the words, "not only for ours". Say what? That's where it began.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

[

Thanks for sharing - I guess that the blood of the lamb was sacrificed for each family at passover and many were not protected from the angel of death because they were not heeding God's Word and personally applying the blood to their houses. The same applies to the blood of the cross - it must be personally applied.

 

[St. SteVen]

Thanks for sharing - I guess that the blood of the lamb was sacrificed for each family at passover and many were not protected from the angel of death because they were not heeding God's Word and personally applying the blood to their houses. The same applies to the blood of the cross - it must be personally applied.

I'm familiar with that analogy.

Do you believe that God predestined the Egyptian peoples to burn in hell for all eternity?

We seem to only understand salvation as we think it applies to us.

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[quietthinker]

God is the only one that calls anyone to the party.

And when someone implies a Christian is a Satanist,if the accused choose to report the rule break,that's not snitching. That's insuring hateful people don't slander a Christian and get away with it until or unless only God changes their nature.

That's what.

The Father (God) calls all to the party....even the older brother who had a superior view of himself calling his younger brother a whoremonger.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

The Father (God) calls all to the party....even the older brother who had a superior view of himself calling his younger brother a whoremonger.

That's not scripture.

 

[Jay Ross]

That's not scripture.

That all depends on how we interpret the parable and what is presented in the scriptures.

There are many who have eyes to see but do not see and ears to hear but do not hear.

Understanding only comes when we have eyes that see and ears that hear, but sadly many still twist what they hear and see to suit their own understanding.

Shalom

 

[Carl Emerson]

I'm familiar with that analogy.

Do you believe that God predestined the Egyptian peoples to burn in hell for all eternity?

We seem to only understand salvation as we think it applies to us.

[

I think there is a sound scriptural case for punishment and annihilation.

But I don't argue what I have not received, so I trust that God knows what is appropriate, and it is not for me to argue with it. (mind you Moses did and won !!! ) Maybe you are called to change God's mind on things ???

 

[St. SteVen]

I think there is a sound scriptural case for punishment and annihilation.

Yes, I agree.
I have always maintained that there is biblical evidence for all three doctrines of the final judgment.
- Damnationism
- Annihilationism
- Universalism

But I don't argue what I have not received, so I trust that God knows what is appropriate, and it is not for me to argue with it. (mind you Moses did and won !!! ) Maybe you are called to change God's mind on things ???

If anything, I am called to change the minds of Damnationists.
I used to be one. I have since repented.

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[quietthinker]

That's not scripture.

Ohhh, you must be unfamiliar with the story Jesus used to illustrate the nature of his Father. Luke 15:11-32

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Ohhh, you must be unfamiliar with the story Jesus used to illustrate the nature of his Father. Luke 15:11-32

That's still not scripture. Your earlier remark,God calls all to the party, isn't scripture.

The prodigal parable doesn't sustain your claim. The two sons of the father were already his.


The prodigal parable actually reiterates what is wrongly condemned in this forum by some members. And that is, Eternal Irrevocable Salvation.

The prodigal walked away, squandered his inheritance, and came home.

Really, one of the criticisms some here make against Eternal Salvation,besides thinking labeling it OSAS as an insult, is that Eternal Salvation,OSAS, is wrong because it implies a license to sin.

The story of the prodigal sure does give that impression.
The son left the father,sinned like crazy,lost his money,and dignity,then came home with his broke tail between his legs. And his father not only welcomed him back but threw a welcome home party.

Both the fathers sons in that parable were already his sons.
They both remained as such. Even when the one son,the prodigal, left his father's ways for a time. When he humbled himself, the son returned home to the father. And was welcomed as his son still.

That's far removed from the idea all are welcomed to the party. Jesus didn't teach that.

Jesus said,no one comes to him unless the father leads them.

Jesus said in his sermon , he teaches in parables so that not everyone understands and comes to repentance. Mark 4.

Therefore,not all are welcomed to the party. Only those God calls are.

UR is not scripture.