The Bodily Resurrection & Return Of Jesus, And Who Jesus Is In Islamic Eschatology

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bbyrd009

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@bbyrd009 Brother, you do not have to agree with anything in the series (except the death and resurrection of Jesus of course). I understand that we are the body of Christ on earth at this time, but I absolutely believe that Jesus will return. It is prophesied throughout scripture.
no it isn't, honest injun, and when you go look all you can find @ "return" is
3Return to Me, and I will return to you
7Return to Me, and I will return to you

only let's admit that no one would much wanna pay 10% of their hard-earned money for that; to those who have signed Contracts for Jesus i mean, and call buildings churches, etc
 

bbyrd009

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Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Revelation 1:7 KJV
ok this still isn't preferred prolly, but the NIV inserts or recovers some interesting quotation marks with in the v,
New International Version
"Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen.

that are good indicators for the best interpretation here imo, which becomes more apparent when you follow the quotes
also we might reflect on the concept of believers all believing that the day of the Lord is going to be a joyous day for them, when we have a Witness here (2nd occurrence at least) that the day of Lord causes everyone to moan, even those every eye guys. All the peoples of the earth iow, even the ones who thought they were going to get raptured and have denied their birthrights, everyone. all.
 

bbyrd009

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2 Corinthians 5:8
We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
so even there in your gratuitous translation it is obv that Paul is not saying "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord," and fwiw reflecting on other trannies or a Lex will clarify what he did say
 

bbyrd009

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I believe that until we are born again, we have a physical body and a soul. When we become born again a spirit body is born within us; we then have a physical body, a spiritual body and a soul - just like Jesus. Our spiritual body is where our soul will reside forever. I don't believe our body of flesh will be glorified.
i would encourage a reflection on the possibility that "born again" as we define it now prolly does not mean what Jesus meant,
even if we would like to believe that a switch gets thrown somewhere when we first profess Christ with our mouths. You seem good hearted and have some interesting perspectives here imo, i hope tossing some darts at perceived weak spots makes them stronger, regardless of whether your beliefs change today or not. Think about that return thing ok, you are the Body now imo
ps are you available to make a video? :D
 
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lforrest

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Thank you brother, all glory to God. I believe it's possible that the disciples saw Jesus scourged and disfigured, but only testified to what the Holy Spirit told them to. I agree that we should not interpret the Bible from unbiblical texts, but just like God told Moses to send spies into Caanan, I believe we should also be alert to the enemies' schemes.

Yes, we should consider the spirit behind a religion or movement. if we look at cults from the perspective of a devil trying to keep their followers from salvation, many examples become evident. For example many cults deny the nature or sonship of Jesus. A devil doesn't care if you divote your efforts to good works in the name of God your whole life, their goal is the end game. They want you destroyed.
 
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ScottA

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so even there in your gratuitous translation it is obv that Paul is not saying "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord," and fwiw reflecting on other trannies or a Lex will clarify what he did say
You might like to do that study, but it will not change the fact that in death:

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.
 

ScottA

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I believe that until we are born again, we have a physical body and a soul. When we become born again a spirit body is born within us; we then have a physical body, a spiritual body and a soul - just like Jesus. Our spiritual body is where our soul will reside forever. I don't believe our body of flesh will be glorified.
That's good.

You may want to change your Youtube presentations to show the body of Christ as His church, which He has long since entered into...i.e., returned to. For "it is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us."

...And then it would be interesting to look at the "blindness", etc., through this lens of spirit and truth.
 

ScottA

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I think that is a completely different presentation. This is focused on the eschatological return of Jesus. Yes, I do believe that in this dispensation of time we are the body of Christ and Christ lives in us, and there is a great spiritual blindness today, however I don't believe that replaces the fact that Jesus will return physically at the appointed time.
You are not doing the math...

If Jesus went "to the Father", and now "lives in us" - He has returned already. Which means you are looking for another Jesus...that does not exist...i.e., a false Jesus.

...Let me help you with this: If you admit that Christ is "in us", how then can you say He returns physically? Is He physically in you, me, or anyone else? You cannot have it both ways. Besides, He said Himself, "The flesh profits nothing."

No...all this thought of Jesus returning in the flesh is simply the flesh talking, meaning it has not been put under subjection of the spirit...which we are commanded to do.
 

ScottA

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Whilst Jesus is in heaven; which is the spiritual realm, His soul dwells in His Spiritual body. Whilst He was in the physical realm His soul required a physical body to dwell in - hence why he came in human form. I believe the Bible is clear that He will return to the physical realm in His physical body, as shown in the series. Just as flesh and blood cannot enter the Spiritual realm as it must have a Spiritual body to dwell in, it stands to reason that for any soul to enter into this physical realm it must have a physical body.
That physical body He has explained as being His church - which is not at all like you have described as Him taking up the flesh. You are contradicting Him.

I agree that Jesus has already returned through the manifestation of the Holy Spirit, but that does not mean He will not return physically. If by "not doing the math" you mean that Jesus cannot dwell in us and return at the same time. I agree, because at His coming we who have the Holy Spirit will be caught up; transformed into our spiritual bodies to be forever with the Lord (in the Spiritual realm). Jesus still has work to do on earth and still requires the use of His physical body once the Holy Spirit has been removed.
Well...if you will not hear even Him when He has said, "It is finished", then I will not argue with you but turn you over to the flesh. But woe unto you for seeking it and preaching it. You should have cast out the bondwoman.
 

ScottA

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I would never condemn a brother or sister in Christ for differing views on non-salvation related scripture. We are all at different stages in our spiritual walk with Christ, but when you become puffed up by what you think you know, that's when you will cease to enter into the deeper understanding of Biblical truth. I will bless you and pray for you regardless. God bless.
That is a fine commentary for someone who doesn't know and is just expressing different views. But I am not dabbling in the unknown, and if I have exercised exhortation, it is only because it has been given to me to do so - not by men or by word or by interpretations, but by God.

PS, As for "non-salvation related scripture", do you not know that we have long since entered into the time of the unforgivable sin against the Spirit, against whom you are promoting the flesh?
 
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Heart2Soul

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Lord,
I pray for humility within the body of Christ.
Let us edify one another in love and refrain from strife.
Let us be thankful that you give to each of us in measure,
And that you do not reveal all things to one, lest we become puffed up in knowledge.
Thank you Lord for your mercy,
Thank you Lord for your faithfulness,
In the Mighty Name of Jesus we bind the power and the authority of the spirit of division.
Heal the body of Christ on this earth and let us come together with one accord to do your will on earth.
In Jesus Mighty Name,
Amen.
AMEN!!!! I agree with this prayer and it is humility that God has been teaching me a lot of lately!
 

lforrest

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How do you know the spirit body can not manifest with a physical presence? Sort of like a convertible with a retractable top.
 

Heart2Soul

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How do you know the spirit body can not manifest with a physical presence? Sort of like a convertible with a retractable top.
My 2 cents.....the spirit realm co-exist with the physical however it cannot operate in the physical without a vessel....we are filled with the Holy Spirit and in us and through us He manifests His Power.....demons seek a place to inhabit … “When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none”(Matt 12:43). Jesus speaks from the point of view of a demon evicted from its home. He has been displaced, and is obviously unhappy about it. He travels, “seeking rest, and finds none”—a miserable, unsatisfied existence. “Then he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes he finds it empty, swept, and put in order”(Matt 12:44). The unclean spirit attempts to again possess the man who was his home—and finds the man more than willing to have him back! Not only is he allowed entry, but the house is empty, swept, and put in order—ready for demon habitation! “Then he goes and take with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first”(Matt 12:45). Finding his home far better than he left it, he decides to bring seven worse spirits so they can all live together and torment this man. Truly does Jesus say, “the last state of that man is worse than the first”. Jesus makes the application: “So shall it also be with this wicked generation”(Matt 12:45).

Spirits have to be "cast out" of a man.....Man has to be filled with the Holy Spirit.....God spoke through a bush....a donkey...a mule.....something physical...
Satan spoke through the serpent in the Garden of Eden.
 

ScottA

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Lord,
I pray for humility within the body of Christ.
Let us edify one another in love and refrain from strife.
Let us be thankful that you give to each of us in measure,
And that you do not reveal all things to one, lest we become puffed up in knowledge.
Thank you Lord for your mercy,
Thank you Lord for your faithfulness,
In the Mighty Name of Jesus we bind the power and the authority of the spirit of division.
Heal the body of Christ on this earth and let us come together with one accord to do your will on earth.
In Jesus Mighty Name,
Amen.
Why do you nullify your prayer with untruth - you who quote the prophets one by one, only to speak against the One who sent them one by one, tempting others to say amen?

But you are wrong. I have not accused you, but simply stated what should be obvious. Did you think the words were idle when Christ spoke them?
 

ScottA

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How do you know the spirit body can not manifest with a physical presence? Sort of like a convertible with a retractable top.
Of course He is God and can do anything. Are you suggesting that He might take back what He has given up according to all that is promised?
 

ScottA

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Good question, and great analogy. I don't know, but from what I understand is that the soul and the spirit need a physical body or vehicle in order to function in this realm.
My 2 cents.....the spirit realm co-exist with the physical however it cannot operate in the physical without a vessel....
Except...and this we should well know, that the Lord Himself manifest Himself to Abraham and Sarah, and did eat and drink before He became flesh.
 
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n2thelight

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Here is a short series on the bodily resurrection, ascension, and return of Jesus that I hope will be a blessing to you. The videos follow one another leading up to a Bible / Ahadith comparison (part 5) which reveals who Jesus is in Islamic eschatology and the major role Islam has to play in opposing Christ at His return.

For whom it may concern, my YouTube channel is non-profit as you will see with no adverts or recent uploads. I only wish to share with you the things God has revealed to me. All glory to God.

The Resurrection Uncovered - YouTube

The flesh body will not rise,it's done with at death
 

Heart2Soul

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Except...and this we should well know, that the Lord Himself manifest Himself to Abraham and Sarah, and did eat and drink before He became flesh.
Jesus is the begotten Son of God and He was the Word in the beginning, He was the Word who was with God in the beginning, He was the Word that was made flesh.
Matthew Henry Commentary
1:1-5 The plainest reason why the Son of God is called the Word, seems to be, that as our words explain our minds to others, so was the Son of God sent in order to reveal his Father's mind to the world. What the evangelist says of Christ proves that he is God. He asserts, His existence in the beginning; His coexistence with the Father. The Word was with God. All things were made by him, and not as an instrument. Without him was not any thing made that was made, from the highest angel to the meanest worm. This shows how well qualified he was for the work of our redemption and salvation. The light of reason, as well as the life of sense, is derived from him, and depends upon him. This eternal Word, this true Light shines, but the darkness comprehends it not. Let us pray without ceasing, that our eyes may be opened to behold this Light, that we may walk in it; and thus be made wise unto salvation, by faith in Jesus Christ.

Question for you: If that which is seen was created by that which is unseen....then there is more substance in the unseen than the seen....the creation cannot be greater than the creator....All things.....without Him was not anything made that was made.....
Now cross-reference
Colossians 1:16 Context
13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

So does it seem plausible that Jesus the creator was fully able to interact with His creation since we are created in His image? So Jesus was able to manifest himself in the flesh, He is not created but the creator....the begotten Son, not the created son.
 

bbyrd009

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Exactly brother. Which is what Satan has done with Islam. Muslims believe in humility and good works, but that won't save their souls. He has fooled them into rejecting Jesus as the Son of God and denying the death and resurrection of Jesus; the only way to salvation. He has even fooled them into rejecting Jesus even when He returns and will raise an army to oppose Him through this great deception.
trust me, Muslims do not need any well-meaning bigots help to find Jesus ok
Muhammad was very clear that Muslims must find Christ or be doomed
and see that this is where all the talk of compromising spiritual principles to make the Christian "church" bigger falls on its butt @lforrest .

Easter instead of Passover, Saturn-day over Sabbath-day, totally acceptable.
Muslims, bad

always from the same mouth of course