The Book of Revelation, Understood?

[Willie T]

Yes, this is true, and in another place, He said that He would return for those who were yet alive at that time.

Much love!

The trouble seems to be not understanding when THAT TIME is.

 

[101G]

Revelation 3:10 "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

I want to come back to this . . .

Literally . . . I will keep you 'out of' the hour of temptation.

There is an hour of testing coming upon 'all the world', to prove them that live on the earth.

And this church has been given a promise that they will not be a part of that time. Not that they will be protected from the testing, they won't be there during that time.

The time of testing that will test all who will be on the earth, but not these.

When we look at the preterist view, these could have been died before that time.

When we look a the historicist view, these have a different life track than that, but that doesn't really answer the passage.

When we look at the futurist view, these will not be there during that time. How can this be?

Much love!

thanks for the reply. no not that they will be removed no, he said, "I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation", why? because we hast kept the word of his patience, meaning the Gospel. as james said, James 1:13 "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
James 1:14 "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. see they never drew away from his word.
1 Peter 4:1 "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

1 Peter 4:2 "That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God".

PICJAG.

 

[marks]

thanks for the reply. no not that they will be removed no, he said, "I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation", why? because we hast kept the word of his patience, meaning the Gospel. as james said, James 1:13 "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
James 1:14 "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. see they never drew away from his word.
1 Peter 4:1 "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

1 Peter 4:2 "That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God".

PICJAG.

See when we get into the exact words, "I will keep you out of" (or away from, more on that later), "out of the hour", there is only way way to be kept out of the hour, that is, the time, and that is by not being in that place/time.

It's not keeping them protected through the testing. It's not even keeping them apart from the testing, it's about the time of the testing. These are kept "away from", or "out of" the actually time when this testing is happening.

As a response to enduring, God promises that they won't actually have to endure that time of testing.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The trouble seems to be not understanding when THAT TIME is.

Agreed!

 

[101G]

See when we get into the exact words, "I will keep you out of" (or away from, more on that later), "out of the hour", there is only way way to be kept out of the hour, that is, the time, and that is by not being in that place/time.

It's not keeping them protected through the testing. It's not even keeping them apart from the testing, it's about the time of the testing. These are kept "away from", or "out of" the actually time when this testing is happening.

As a response to enduring, God promises that they won't actually have to endure that time of testing.

Much love!

well what is the helper for? Matthew 10:19 "But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
Matthew 10:20 "For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you".

PICJAG.

 

[marks]

well what is the helper for? Matthew 10:19 "But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
Matthew 10:20 "For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you".

PICJAG.

The Helper is here for much!

God's promise to give us words to speak doesn't change how He's going to wrap up the end of the age.

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Matthew 10:20 "For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you".

Isaiah 58:11-13 And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not. [12] And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in. [13] If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

 

[101G]

if it's not the Holy Spirit that will protect you, I don't know will. John 17:14 "I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:15 "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

PICJAG.

The Helper is here for much!

God's promise to give us words to speak doesn't change how He's going to wrap up the end of the age.

Much love!

if it's not the Holy Spirit that will protect you, I don't know what will. John 17:14 "I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:15 "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
that's my take on this. the church is not being rapture out of the world. it those who endure to the end. and God will protect those of his who keep his "WORD".

that's all I have on this promise.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

Isaiah 58:11-13 And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not. [12] And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in. [13] If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

remember what you said, "my thoughts are NOT your thoughts"... ;)

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

if you have anything else on the churches please bring it out, for it's always better to be in the light than in the dark. Proverbs 4:7 "Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding".

please ask any question, as said, for we all are learning.

PICJAG.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

remember what you said, "my thoughts are NOT your thoughts"... ;)

PICJAG.

how could I forget. Isaiah 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. [9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

But for so long going to the book of Revelation projecting my own thoughts and my own ways which are beneath on the Revelation of Jesus Christ when He said His thoughts are higher and His ways are higher ...as the heavens are higher than the earth. Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Only keep sharing because for so long I’ve been told to stay in my own ways and my own thoughts when He said “walk in the Spirit”. He never said do not walk in My ways which are higher than your own ways and My thoughts which are higher than your own thoughts.
...as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them ; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (2 Corinthians 6:16)

Romans 8:4-5 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [5] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

 

[101G]

Only keep sharing because for so long I’ve been told to stay in my own ways and my own thoughts when He said “walk in the Spirit”. He never said do not walk in My ways which are higher than your own ways and My thoughts which are higher than your own thoughts.
...as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them ; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (2 Corinthians 6:16)

First of all, never cut yourself short. God has given us all something. one word can change a whole thought. again as i always say, no one person have all the information on GOD, hence the need to assemble ourselves, and learn from one another. so never sell yourself short about anything concering the Lord, ok.

if there are no more question on the churches, ...........

The Lord Jesus enthroned with power.
Revelation 4:1 "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter”.
a door here means, a revelation, or an opening of ones the mind. listen Luke 24:45 "Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures".

John had just saw the Lord Jesus in his glorified state on earth in a vision, for he was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day. In the Spirit means John saw, or was interacting to the vision and it’s experience to events. Either looking at or recording the events. John is moving from being on the earth to experiencing events the Spirit, he is having an out of body experiences, (as was with the apostle Paul). John is transported in the Spirit to the third heaven, to the throne room of God.

John said a DOOR was open in heaven. The Lord Jesus is that door, he’s the Way, (Holy), and he’s the Truth, (Spirit), and the Light, (Wisdom). and this DOOR which was in heaven, allowed John to gain Godly wisdom by revelation as to who is the Lord Jesus is, revealed .... (GOD) in diversified flesh. John said a voice, that said “COME UP HITHER”. what was John coming up for? Answer, knowledge, and understanding concerning the things of our Lord and God Jesus the Christ. John came up to witness what is to come, the hereafter..

the Greek word for "hereafter: is G3326 μετά meta (met-ah') prep.
1. (properly) denoting accompaniment
Accompaniment:: something that is supplementary to or complements something else.
in re-reading the 4th. chapter, and the very first verse of Revelation, the phase, "I will show thee things, which must be hereafter.
he said, "I will", the word will here indicate future tense, "I will show thee things", meaning more than one. which must be, (future). "hereafter" is present tense at the time of the writing, here- "AFTER" theses things NOW. my understanding, (not set in stone), before I show you the future, you must see or know the past, to understand these future events. so John was brought up to heaven for direct KNOWLEDGE, and UNDERSTANDING. this is my understanding of the scripture, looking to hear other understanding.

PICJAG.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

First of all, never cut yourself short. God has given us all something. one word can change a whole thought. again as i always say, no one person have all the information on GOD, hence the need to assemble ourselves, and learn from one another. so never sell yourself short about anything concering the Lord, ok.

I’m not. Only wanting to encourage others “hence the need to assemble ourselves, and learn from one another.” So all prosper. Thank you for the rest of what you share as a brother. It is a blessing.

 

[101G]

I’m not. Only wanting to encourage others “hence the need to assemble ourselves, and learn from one another.” So all prosper. Thank you for the rest of what you share as a brother. It is a blessing.

GREAT, well I guess I'll have to give you a side name. Sister Barnabas, comfort, and encourager, sister of consolation, (smile). I'll be out for a while, but see you later this evening.

PICJAG.

 

[marks]

if it's not the Holy Spirit that will protect you, I don't know will. John 17:14 "I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:15 "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

PICJAG.

if it's not the Holy Spirit that will protect you, I don't know what will. John 17:14 "I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:15 "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
that's my take on this. the church is not being rapture out of the world. it those who endure to the end. and God will protect those of his who keep his "WORD".

that's all I have on this promise.

PICJAG.

But it's just like Noah and the ark. The ark was to be to keep Noah from the flood, but didn't mean that Lamech was supposed to look for deliverance from the flood by building or entering an ark. Lamech died before the flood.

The ark was only for those who were there at that particular time, and didn't apply to anyone else.

When God calls an end to the age, He's got to do something with all the people here at the time. For the believers He catches us away. For the unsaved Jews He seals 144,000, and begins to bring salvation to the others. For the unsaved Gentiles, they have a harder row to hoe.

Seriously . . . look at the construction of the verse and what it does and does not allow . . .

Much love!

 

[Jay Ross]

Hello,

Chapters Revelation 4-5 should, IMHO, be considered together as a whole before considering the judgements that follow.

In verse 4:1 we are told of a "door/portal" that has been opened between heaven and earth.

Strong's definition for G:2374 and often translated as a "Door" or "Doorway" is: -

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
door, gate.
Apparently a primary word (compare "door"); a portal or entrance (the opening or the closure, literally or figuratively) -- door, gate.
​

The following embedded words based on the Hebrew root words G:2374 are found within the NT at these references: -

Θύρα thúra (9) Matthew 25:10, Luke 11:7, John 10:7, 10:9, 1 Corinthians 16:9, Revelation 4:1

θύρᾳ thúra (3) Matthew 27:60, John 18:16, Acts 5:9

θύραι thúrai (2) Acts 16:26, 21:30

θύραις thúrais (2) Matthew 24:33, Mark 13:29

θύραν thúran (14) Matthew 6:6, Mark 1:33, 2:2, 11:4, 15:46, Luke 13:25, 13:25, Acts 3:2, 12:13, 14:27, Colossians 4:3, Revelation 3:8, 3:20, 3:20

θύρας thúras (8) Mark 16:3, Luke 13:24, John 10:1, 10:2, Acts 5:19, 12:6, 16:27, 2 Corinthians 2:12

θυρῶν thurœ¡n (4) John 20:19, 20:26, Acts 5:23, James 5:9
​

What John saw with respect to the assembly in heaven was also recorded/introduced in Daniel 7 and recorded what he saw this way: -

Daniel 7:9-10

9 "I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10 A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court was seated,
And the books were opened.
​

What they recorded was what they perceived they were seeing.

Now, Daniel 7:13-14 has already happened when John enters heaven in his vision. Jesus has been given dominion over all of the earth such that they should worship him. He has also judged the kings of the earth and their armies at Armageddon, where He came like a thief and "took" the judged and imprisoned them in the Bottomless pit/cistern for many days to await their time of punishment. Also at this time of the kings, Daniel 2:44 God has established his Everlasting Kingdom here on the earth during the time that the kings of the earth are judged. At this time there is opened a direct doorway or portal opening which allows People to commune directly with God as God has extended His heavenly Kingdom to the earth.

Revelation 19:1-10 also records the worship of the Son of Man when He is given dominion over the peoples of the earth, and it also in verses 11-16 tells us of His visitation after He receives His Dominion to the earth to Judge the nations of the Earth. Paul also tells us that at the time of the completion of the 2,300 years of the Gentile heathen nations trampling God's Sanctuary and His Hosts, that all of Israel will be redeemed and Israel will once more become the Bride, this time with Christ.

This then allows us to pick up the story again in Revelation 5:5 where we are told that Jesus has dominion over the earth and is now worthy to open the scroll which leads immediately into Revelation 6 where we see the judgement of the kings of the earth. This is also described as part of the Revelation 16:12-16 prophecy.

@Willie T is right when he tells us that we need to understand the chronological order of the end times story as recorded in the Book of revelation and identify where in the record the story, it has passed over time gaps of hundreds of years as if they do not exist in the conveying of the story being presented.

If we place Revelation 4-5 in our near future, very close to the end of this present age, and just before the Millennium Age, we will have a way point in time for the unfolding of the rest of the events that take place during the Millennium Age.

I would also suggest that some of the prophesized events in the Book of Revelation have already run their full course and some other have already started and are still unfolding at this present time and in all likelihood, will end at the beginning of the next age. But this requires us to consider that the presented order of events in the Book of Revelation may be jumbled up such that the Book of Revelation cannot as a linear record as to what and when the events will occur.

Shalom

 

[101G]

But it's just like Noah and the ark. The ark was to be to keep Noah from the flood, but didn't mean that Lamech was supposed to look for deliverance from the flood by building or entering an ark. Lamech died before the flood.

The ark was only for those who were there at that particular time, and didn't apply to anyone else.

When God calls an end to the age, He's got to do something with all the people here at the time. For the believers He catches us away. For the unsaved Jews He seals 144,000, and begins to bring salvation to the others. For the unsaved Gentiles, they have a harder row to hoe.

Seriously . . . look at the construction of the verse and what it does and does not allow . . .

Much love!

first thanks for the reply, second, I have, we're not here to argue, but to share views. I shared mine and you yours. that's it for me.

Now do you have anything else to share on the churches?.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

Daniel 7:9-10
9 "I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10 A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court was seated,
And the books were opened.

Thanks Jay. may I ask, is this description the same description of the same person in revelation 1:12-16?

Paul also tells us that at the time of the completion of the 2,300 years of the Gentile heathen nations trampling God's Sanctuary and His Hosts, that all of Israel will be redeemed and Israel will once more become the Bride, this time with Christ.

I have a question, as the bride is this after the 1,000 or before?

@Willie T is right when he tells us that we need to understand the chronological order of the end times story as recorded in the Book of revelation and identify where in the record the story, it has passed over time gaps of hundreds of years as if they do not exist in the conveying of the story being presented.

another question here, did the Lord recieve the KINGDOM before he died on the cross or after?.

f we place Revelation 4-5 in our near future, very close to the end of this present age, and just before the Millennium Age, we will have a way point in time for the unfolding of the rest of the events that take place during the Millennium Age.

another question, did not the Lord Jesus resurrected according to chapter 5, which is before the Millennium Age.

I would also suggest that some of the prophesized events in the Book of Revelation have already run their full course and some other have already started and are still unfolding at this present time and in all likelihood, will end at the beginning of the next age. But this requires us to consider that the presented order of events in the Book of Revelation may be jumbled up such that the Book of Revelation cannot as a linear record as to what and when the events will occur.

I agree, is not we in the church age now?.

PICJAG.

 

[marks]

first thanks for the reply, second, I have, we're not here to argue, but to share views. I shared mine and you yours. that's it for me.

That's cool! I don't want to see a lot of debating here, more presentation of views is fine.

Now do you have anything else to share on the churches?.

PICJAG.

There's always more . . . but let's move on.

:)

I think with Revelation it's important to hold onto the big picture.

Much love!

 

[101G]

That's cool! I don't want to see a lot of debating here, more presentation of views is fine.



There's always more . . . but let's move on.

:)

I think with Revelation it's important to hold onto the big picture.

Much love!

Agreed.