The Bucha killings, now Biden wants more sanctions

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Scott Downey

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In Ukrainian street, a corpse with hands bound and a bullet wound to the head | Reuters

Being attributed to Russian soldiers, now of course that is a possibility.
I read one woman, was taken with her husband, and the chechniyan soldiers threatened to cut them up. He was found all cut up and shot dead. Chechniyans are pretty brutal muslim soldiers, if you read of their exploits, you will see they are similar to ISIS like figures. Of course in history most muslim - Islamic soldiers are very brutal.

But some could have been killed by Ukrainian forces. We may never really know.

Perhaps if enough sanctions are on Russia, Russia will give up on selling oil and gas to Europe, and plunge them into an economic depression worse than the great depression. I am sure they will find ready buyers for their oil and gas in Asia, as well as food and fertilizer exports.

IF Russia wants, they could economically devastate Europe, the NATO nations in Europe.
 

Scott Downey

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Russia says footage in Ukraine's Bucha was 'ordered' to blame Russia

Ukraine of course being under pressure dearly desires more support for their war with Russia, and I can easily imagine them pinning Russia with as much dirt as they can, and even using civilian DEMOCIDE caused by their own UAF as an excuse to get more of what they want. It seems to me, they are ordering cities like Mariupol to fight to the last man and not surrender. Which is something despots like Hitler commanded be done. Hitler was allowing the total destruction of Germany at the end of WW2, and just about got it too.
 

Truth7t7

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Russia says footage in Ukraine's Bucha was 'ordered' to blame Russia

Ukraine of course being under pressure dearly desires more support for their war with Russia, and I can easily imagine them pinning Russia with as much dirt as they can, and even using civilian DEMOCIDE caused by their own UAF as an excuse to get more of what they want. It seems to me, they are ordering cities like Mariupol to fight to the last man and not surrender. Which is something despots like Hitler commanded be done. Hitler was allowing the total destruction of Germany at the end of WW2, and just about got it too.
When the dust settles, smart phones in pictures and video clips will be packed full of evidence

It's my opinion that it will be the Ukranian military guilty of war crimes,as you stated, I also believe much death, destruction, has been Ukranian planned, and massive amounts of photo ops have been done to gain western support

There are many civilian reports that the Azov has been shooting innocent civilians in Mariupol trying to leave the war zone, being used as Azov human shields, also intentional destruction of civilian buildings

One thing is for certain,the western MSM is a big propaganda machine considering Ukraine/Russia, they have Putin being overthrown at home, while Forbes is posting Putin receiving 83% approval ratings, highest in five years

CBS running a propaganda clip, with 48 anti tank mines in a field, laying on the earth in 3 carefully placed rows and not buried, with claims that Russia left deadly weapons behind, 100% staged propaganda

LEVIV Ukraine one week ago, smoke going up behind a reporter in the distance, with claims it was a civilian target hit?

Fact was, it was a precise hit from Russian missiles on a fuel storage facility, away from civilians, more MSM propaganda,toooo many to list
 
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Rita

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My brother lives in Germany , they have enough gas to last until the autumn( as a country ) it would take two years for them get ready
to receive gas from elsewhere. Putin has been decreasing the amount of gas being received from the Russian pipeline over the last two years, so the German reserves are not as full as they thought. Guess covid kept everyone busy !!
Germany is considering halting the pipeline itself after updates news, but not sure that would be a wise move.
We don’t get as much gas from Russia, but it certainly having a knock on effect here in the U.K.
Right off to work to earn some money to run out because everything’s going up !
 

Enoch111

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I read one woman, was taken with her husband, and the chechniyan soldiers threatened to cut them up. He was found all cut up and shot dead. Chechniyans are pretty brutal muslim soldiers, if you read of their exploits, you will see they are similar to ISIS like figures. Of course in history most muslim - Islamic soldiers are very brutal.
The fact that Putin has approved Chechens to fight for him shows that Putin will do anything to destroy Ukraine and the Ukrainians. Muslim Chechens were sworn enemies of godless Russians not too long ago, and they have no business being involved in Europe.

But this whole conflict rests on the shoulders of evil Joe Biden, who actually encouraged Vladimir Putin to move against Ukraine.
This was to deliberately deflect attention from his catastrophic destruction of America. And let us never forget that it is only because of Joe Biden that his son Hunter could profit from his corrupt connections not only in Ukraine but in many other countries including China. So the real issue is why has there been no regime change in the USA and why has the Biden crime family not been arrested and jailed?

Mark Levin Calls For Special Investigation Of The Biden Family (VIDEO)

Mark Levin Calls For Special Investigation Of The Biden Family (VIDEO)
 

Ronald Nolette

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Russia says footage in Ukraine's Bucha was 'ordered' to blame Russia

Ukraine of course being under pressure dearly desires more support for their war with Russia, and I can easily imagine them pinning Russia with as much dirt as they can, and even using civilian DEMOCIDE caused by their own UAF as an excuse to get more of what they want. It seems to me, they are ordering cities like Mariupol to fight to the last man and not surrender. Which is something despots like Hitler commanded be done. Hitler was allowing the total destruction of Germany at the end of WW2, and just about got it too.


"Their war with Russia"???????

Last I knew it was Russia war on Ukraine, Russia did the invading, Russia did the massive bombarding of cities and towns.

And given the fact that Ukrainian soldiers aid people to flee from cities being razed by the Russian Hun Armies it is very doubtful that UAF is killing their own civilians.

Is it possible? Anything is possible! Is it probavble? No ! Not given the testimony of millions of refugees who fled their homes as Russia was bombarding their cities.

UAF when engaged in urban warfare are using manpads and NLAWS to pick off Russian equipment and invaders. They are not indiscriminately bombing towns like Russian has been videoed doing!

But I have an honest question for you> Why, given russians brutal history and Putins brutal history do you find no evil to speak of Russia and no good to speak of th eUkraine and the West? Why do you write like you are a pro-Russian patriot?
 

Scott Downey

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Questions Abound About Bucha Massacre
Says NYT and other western media was in Bucha on April 2 and saw none of this, the evidence appears a few days latter.
Pentagon says they can not confirm the story of the Ukrainian government.

Leads to this, could be the globalists want a hot war with Russia as furthering their population reduction agenda by every means necessary, and the WEF is now saying people are programable ANIMALS, their godlessness allows for those things.
Pundits Who Advocate Hot War With Russia Are Enemies Of Humanity


The Bucha Ukraine 'Massacre' Looks More Like A False Flag - Europe Reloaded

Readers may be interested in this piece for ConsortiumNews by Joe Lauria, who discusses the evidence mentioned above, as well as another piece by Jason Michael McCann, who says that the New York Times (close to the neo-Nazi Azov battalion!) was in Bucha on Saturday, April 2 and made no report of any massacre. Evidence of alleged atrocities only appeared four days after Ukraine military and media arrived in Bucha. Six (6) people were apparently found dead. McCann posits the reprisal theory by the Azov battalion against perceived saboteurs following the Russian departure. See

Questions Abound About Bucha Massacre
****

This short Moon of Alabama piece shows an interesting declaration by the Pentagon via Reuters:

If The Pentagon Can Not Confirm The Bucha Tales, Who Can?
 
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Scott Downey

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I am thinking their is a chance, the Europeans and the US set up conditions such that Russia no longer sells them anything, fertilizer, food or energy. which will destroy Europeans. This would fit in with the WEF plans of eliminating many more people and setup improved conditions for their great reset and the coming Satanic Beasts world system of governance. I wonder how long people can live on ideology, speeches, posting their outrage on the internet and TV news broadcasts.

There exists a chance of a nuclear war of some type or extent, which will also further their plans for the world, which plans are really the destruction of as many people as possible and giving the demons what they want, to steal, kill, destroy without restraint.
 
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Hidden In Him

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Questions Abound About Bucha Massacre
Says NYT and other western media was in Bucha on April 2 and saw none of this, the evidence appears a few days latter.
Pentagon says they can not confirm the story of the Ukrainian government.

I simply do not understand how "conservative" Christians are taking information provided for them by the NEW YORK TIMES and running with it like it's gospel, and the inerrant Word of God. Where on earth is our discernment these days? Or maybe we never had any, and that's the truly shocking thing. I knew there were a lot of believers out there without much on the ball, but to simply take The New York Times' word for it, on anything? There are several non-Christians I know who are more discerning than a lot of the believers I see posting on the Russian-Ukrainian war, which is a really sad commentary on where the church of the Lord Jesus Christ is spiritually these days.

Anyway, I will post your articles in full below. They deserve to be read, and thanks for the post.
 
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Hidden In Him

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Consortium News

Volume 27, Number 95 — Wednesday, April 6, 2022
Questions Abound About Bucha Massacre
April 4, 2022

The West has made a snap judgment about who is responsible for the massacre at the Ukrainian town of Bucha with calls for more stringent sanctions on Russia, but the question of guilt is far from decided, writes Joe Lauria.


Victims in Bucha. (Ukrainian Ministry of Digital Development Mikhail Fedorov/Wikimedia Commons)

By Joe Lauria
Special to Consortium News

Within hours of news Sunday that there had been a massacre at Bucha, a town 63 kms north of the Ukrainian capital, the verdict was in: Russian troops had senselessly slaughtered hundreds of innocent civilians as they withdrew from the town, leaving their bodies littering the streets.

Unlike their judicial systems, when it comes to war, Western nations dispense with the need for investigations and evidence and pronounce guilt based on political motives: Russia is guilty. Case closed.

Except the case hasn’t even been opened yet and the sentence is already being proposed. French President Emmanuel Macron, for instance, has called for Russian coal and oil to be banned from Europe. “There are very clear indications of war crimes,” he said on France Inter radio Monday. “What happened in Bucha demands a new round of sanctions and very clear measures, so we will co-ordinate with our European partners, especially with Germany.”

Other voices are now perilously calling for the U.S. to go to war with Russia over the incident.

“This is genocide,” Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky told Face the Nation on CBS. “Mothers of Russians should see this. See what bastards you’ve raised. Murderers, looters, butchers,” he added on Telegram.

Russia has categorically denied it had anything to do with the massacre.

Where to Start

If there were to be a serious probe, one of the first places an investigator would begin is to map out a timeline of events.

Last Wednesday, all Russian forces left Bucha, according to the Russian Defense Ministry.

This was confirmed on Thursday by a smiling Anatolii Fedoruk, the mayor of Bucha, in a video on the Bucha City Council official Facebook page. The translated post accompanying the video says:

“March 31 – the day of the liberation of Bucha. This was announced by Bucha Mayor Anatolii Fedoruk. This day will go down in the glorious history of Bucha and the entire Bucha community as a day of liberation by the Armed Forces of Ukraine from the Russian occupiers.”


Screenshot from Fedoruk Facebook video.

All of the Russian troops are gone and yet there is no mention of a massacre. The beaming Fedoruk says it is a “glorious day” in the history of Bucha, which would hardly be the case if hundreds of dead civilians littered the streets around Fedoruk.

“Russian Defence Ministry denied accusations by the Kiev regime of the alleged killing of civilians in Bucha, Kiev Region. Evidence of crimes in Bucha appeared only on the fourth day after the Security Service of Ukraine and representatives of Ukrainian media arrived in the town. All Russian units completely withdrew from Bucha on March 30, and ‘not a single local resident was injured’ during the time when Bucha was under the control of Russian troops,” the Russian MOD said in a post on Telegram.

What Happened Next?

What happened then on Friday and Saturday? As pointed out in a piece by Jason Michael McCann on Standpoint Zero, The New York Times was in Bucha on Saturday and did not report a massacre. Instead, the Times said the withdrawal was completed on Saturday, two days after the mayor said it was, and that the Russians left “behind them dead soldiers and burned vehicles, according to witnesses, Ukrainian officials, satellite images and military analysts.”

The Times said reporters found the bodies of six civilians. “It was unclear under what circumstances they had died, but the discarded packaging of a Russian military ration was lying beside one man who had been shot in the head,” the paper said. It then quoted a Zelensky adviser, who said:

“’The bodies of people with tied hands, who were shot dead by soldiers lie in the streets,’ the adviser, Mykhailo Podolyak, said on Twitter. ‘These people were not in the military. They had no weapons. They posed no threat.’ He included an image of a scene, photographed by Agence France-Presse, showing three bodies on the side of a road, one with hands apparently tied behind the back. The New York Times was unable to independently verify Mr. Podolyak’s claim the people had been executed.'”



It is possible that on Saturday the full extent of the horror had yet to emerge, and that even the mayor was unaware of it two days before, though photos now show many of the bodies out in the open on the streets of the town, something that presumably would be difficult to miss.

In Bucha, the Times was close to the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion, whose soldiers appear in the newspaper’s photographs. In his piece, McCann suggests that Azov may responsible for the killings:

“Something very interesting then happens on [Saturday] 2 April, hours before a massacre is brought to the attention of the national and international media. The US and EU-funded Gorshenin Institute online [Ukrainian language] site Left Bank announced that:

‘Special forces have begun a clearing operation in the city of Bucha in the Kyiv region, which has been liberated by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The city is being cleared from saboteurs and accomplices of Russian forces.’

The Russian military has by now completely left the city, so this sounds for all the world like reprisals. The state authorities would be going through the city searching for ‘saboteurs’ and ‘accomplices of Russian forces.’ Only the day before [Friday], Ekaterina Ukraintsiva, representing the town council authority, appeared on an information video on the Bucha Live Telegram page wearing military fatigues and seated in front of a Ukrainian flag to announce ‘the cleansing of the city.’ She informed residents that the arrival of the Azov battalion did not mean that liberation was complete (but it was, the Russians had fully withdrawn), and that a ‘complete sweep’ had to be performed.”

Ukraintsiva was speaking a day after the mayor had said the town was liberated.

By Sunday morning, the world learned of the massacre of hundreds of people. U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said: “We strongly condemn apparent atrocities by Kremlin forces in Bucha and across Ukraine. We are pursuing accountability using every tool available, documenting and sharing information to hold accountable those responsible.” President Joe Biden on Monday called for a “war crimes” trial. “This guy is brutal, and what’s happening in Bucha is outrageous, and everyone’s seen it. I think it’s a war crime.”

The Bucha incident is a critical moment in the war. An impartial investigation is warranted, which probably only the U.N. could conduct. The Azov Battalion may have perpetrated revenge killings against Russian collaborators, or the Russians carried out this massacre. (Once again the Pentagon is dampening the war hysteria, saying it can’t confirm or deny Russia was responsible.)

A rush to judgment is dangerous, with irresponsible talk of the U.S. directly fighting Russia. But it is a rush to judgment that we are getting.

Joe Lauria is editor-in-chief of Consortium News and a former U.N. correspondent for The Wall Street Journal, Boston Globe, and numerous other newspapers.
 

Scott Downey

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Consortium News

Volume 27, Number 95 — Wednesday, April 6, 2022
Questions Abound About Bucha Massacre
April 4, 2022

The West has made a snap judgment about who is responsible for the massacre at the Ukrainian town of Bucha with calls for more stringent sanctions on Russia, but the question of guilt is far from decided, writes Joe Lauria.


Victims in Bucha. (Ukrainian Ministry of Digital Development Mikhail Fedorov/Wikimedia Commons)

By Joe Lauria
Special to Consortium News

Within hours of news Sunday that there had been a massacre at Bucha, a town 63 kms north of the Ukrainian capital, the verdict was in: Russian troops had senselessly slaughtered hundreds of innocent civilians as they withdrew from the town, leaving their bodies littering the streets.

Unlike their judicial systems, when it comes to war, Western nations dispense with the need for investigations and evidence and pronounce guilt based on political motives: Russia is guilty. Case closed.

Except the case hasn’t even been opened yet and the sentence is already being proposed. French President Emmanuel Macron, for instance, has called for Russian coal and oil to be banned from Europe. “There are very clear indications of war crimes,” he said on France Inter radio Monday. “What happened in Bucha demands a new round of sanctions and very clear measures, so we will co-ordinate with our European partners, especially with Germany.”

Other voices are now perilously calling for the U.S. to go to war with Russia over the incident.

“This is genocide,” Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky told Face the Nation on CBS. “Mothers of Russians should see this. See what bastards you’ve raised. Murderers, looters, butchers,” he added on Telegram.

Russia has categorically denied it had anything to do with the massacre.

Where to Start

If there were to be a serious probe, one of the first places an investigator would begin is to map out a timeline of events.

Last Wednesday, all Russian forces left Bucha, according to the Russian Defense Ministry.

This was confirmed on Thursday by a smiling Anatolii Fedoruk, the mayor of Bucha, in a video on the Bucha City Council official Facebook page. The translated post accompanying the video says:

“March 31 – the day of the liberation of Bucha. This was announced by Bucha Mayor Anatolii Fedoruk. This day will go down in the glorious history of Bucha and the entire Bucha community as a day of liberation by the Armed Forces of Ukraine from the Russian occupiers.”


Screenshot from Fedoruk Facebook video.

All of the Russian troops are gone and yet there is no mention of a massacre. The beaming Fedoruk says it is a “glorious day” in the history of Bucha, which would hardly be the case if hundreds of dead civilians littered the streets around Fedoruk.

“Russian Defence Ministry denied accusations by the Kiev regime of the alleged killing of civilians in Bucha, Kiev Region. Evidence of crimes in Bucha appeared only on the fourth day after the Security Service of Ukraine and representatives of Ukrainian media arrived in the town. All Russian units completely withdrew from Bucha on March 30, and ‘not a single local resident was injured’ during the time when Bucha was under the control of Russian troops,” the Russian MOD said in a post on Telegram.

What Happened Next?

What happened then on Friday and Saturday? As pointed out in a piece by Jason Michael McCann on Standpoint Zero, The New York Times was in Bucha on Saturday and did not report a massacre. Instead, the Times said the withdrawal was completed on Saturday, two days after the mayor said it was, and that the Russians left “behind them dead soldiers and burned vehicles, according to witnesses, Ukrainian officials, satellite images and military analysts.”

The Times said reporters found the bodies of six civilians. “It was unclear under what circumstances they had died, but the discarded packaging of a Russian military ration was lying beside one man who had been shot in the head,” the paper said. It then quoted a Zelensky adviser, who said:

“’The bodies of people with tied hands, who were shot dead by soldiers lie in the streets,’ the adviser, Mykhailo Podolyak, said on Twitter. ‘These people were not in the military. They had no weapons. They posed no threat.’ He included an image of a scene, photographed by Agence France-Presse, showing three bodies on the side of a road, one with hands apparently tied behind the back. The New York Times was unable to independently verify Mr. Podolyak’s claim the people had been executed.'”



It is possible that on Saturday the full extent of the horror had yet to emerge, and that even the mayor was unaware of it two days before, though photos now show many of the bodies out in the open on the streets of the town, something that presumably would be difficult to miss.

In Bucha, the Times was close to the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion, whose soldiers appear in the newspaper’s photographs. In his piece, McCann suggests that Azov may responsible for the killings:

“Something very interesting then happens on [Saturday] 2 April, hours before a massacre is brought to the attention of the national and international media. The US and EU-funded Gorshenin Institute online [Ukrainian language] site Left Bank announced that:

‘Special forces have begun a clearing operation in the city of Bucha in the Kyiv region, which has been liberated by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The city is being cleared from saboteurs and accomplices of Russian forces.’

The Russian military has by now completely left the city, so this sounds for all the world like reprisals. The state authorities would be going through the city searching for ‘saboteurs’ and ‘accomplices of Russian forces.’ Only the day before [Friday], Ekaterina Ukraintsiva, representing the town council authority, appeared on an information video on the Bucha Live Telegram page wearing military fatigues and seated in front of a Ukrainian flag to announce ‘the cleansing of the city.’ She informed residents that the arrival of the Azov battalion did not mean that liberation was complete (but it was, the Russians had fully withdrawn), and that a ‘complete sweep’ had to be performed.”

Ukraintsiva was speaking a day after the mayor had said the town was liberated.

By Sunday morning, the world learned of the massacre of hundreds of people. U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said: “We strongly condemn apparent atrocities by Kremlin forces in Bucha and across Ukraine. We are pursuing accountability using every tool available, documenting and sharing information to hold accountable those responsible.” President Joe Biden on Monday called for a “war crimes” trial. “This guy is brutal, and what’s happening in Bucha is outrageous, and everyone’s seen it. I think it’s a war crime.”

The Bucha incident is a critical moment in the war. An impartial investigation is warranted, which probably only the U.N. could conduct. The Azov Battalion may have perpetrated revenge killings against Russian collaborators, or the Russians carried out this massacre. (Once again the Pentagon is dampening the war hysteria, saying it can’t confirm or deny Russia was responsible.)

A rush to judgment is dangerous, with irresponsible talk of the U.S. directly fighting Russia. But it is a rush to judgment that we are getting.

Joe Lauria is editor-in-chief of Consortium News and a former U.N. correspondent for The Wall Street Journal, Boston Globe, and numerous other newspapers.

A HOT WAR with Russia and US army with boots on the ground in Ukraine.
I have also witnessed that sentiment on this forum.
Did happen to watch the nightly news about Bucha and the left news host was outraged and furious, they are pumping the public, and I think they want the US and Russia directly to engage a war on the battlefield. I also do think this is part of the globalist agenda.
 
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Hidden In Him

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A HOT WAR with Russia and US army with boots on the ground in Ukraine.
I have also witnessed that sentiment on this forum.

Anyone could have seen this coming. It won't be long before they create false flags over the use of chemical weapons. Who on earth can't see it coming? The Western press is telegraphing it to everyone in advance, for heaven's sakes.

I truly, TRULY don't understand.
 
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Scott Downey

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Anyone could have seen this coming. It won't be long before they create false flags over the use of chemical weapons. Who on earth can't see it coming? The Western press is telegraphing it to everyone in advance, for heaven's sakes.

I truly, TRULY don't understand.
Been waiting for that too.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Questions Abound About Bucha Massacre
Says NYT and other western media was in Bucha on April 2 and saw none of this, the evidence appears a few days latter.
Pentagon says they can not confirm the story of the Ukrainian government.

Leads to this, could be the globalists want a hot war with Russia as furthering their population reduction agenda by every means necessary, and the WEF is now saying people are programable ANIMALS, their godlessness allows for those things.
Pundits Who Advocate Hot War With Russia Are Enemies Of Humanity


The Bucha Ukraine 'Massacre' Looks More Like A False Flag - Europe Reloaded

Readers may be interested in this piece for ConsortiumNews by Joe Lauria, who discusses the evidence mentioned above, as well as another piece by Jason Michael McCann, who says that the New York Times (close to the neo-Nazi Azov battalion!) was in Bucha on Saturday, April 2 and made no report of any massacre. Evidence of alleged atrocities only appeared four days after Ukraine military and media arrived in Bucha. Six (6) people were apparently found dead. McCann posits the reprisal theory by the Azov battalion against perceived saboteurs following the Russian departure. See

Questions Abound About Bucha Massacre
****

This short Moon of Alabama piece shows an interesting declaration by the Pentagon via Reuters:

If The Pentagon Can Not Confirm The Bucha Tales, Who Can?


Who can? Anyone with an IQ above 10!

1. russia was in control of these towns.
2. We have eyewitness testimony.
3. Ukrainian troops have not been in Buch for nearly a month.
4. Russia has a history of war crimes in all their past military engagements.

One of your fake journalists decries a man rejoicing over the liberation of Ukraine without a mention of massacre! So? People cannot be glad they are liberated from their captors?


Mass graves and people shot to death in fromt of their families and hands tied with bullets in their skulls, is strong evidence that their was a massacre!

What is really behind your hatred of Ukraine and your apparent willingness to overlook any Russian atrocity?

With your in these writings, it would seem you question the German genocide against jews!
 

Scott Downey

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I have no doubts about Hitler's killing of 6 million Jews. But as bad as that was, other millions have been killed by other governments as well. The term is called democide. The 20th century was one very bloody time of murdering governments world wide.
 

Ronald Nolette

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I have no doubts about Hitler's killing of 6 million Jews. But as bad as that was, other millions have been killed by other governments as well. The term is called democide. The 20th century was one very bloody time of murdering governments world wide.

Yes. Stalin killed about 60 million. Mao is estimated to have killed about 100 million.

Pol Pot, and several central and south extremists. These are all signs of the times.
 

Hidden In Him

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Who can? Anyone with an IQ above 10!

1. russia was in control of these towns.
2. We have eyewitness testimony.
3. Ukrainian troops have not been in Buch for nearly a month.
4. Russia has a history of war crimes in all their past military engagements.

One of your fake journalists decries a man rejoicing over the liberation of Ukraine without a mention of massacre! So? People cannot be glad they are liberated from their captors?


Mass graves and people shot to death in fromt of their families and hands tied with bullets in their skulls, is strong evidence that their was a massacre!

What is really behind your hatred of Ukraine and your apparent willingness to overlook any Russian atrocity?

With your in these writings, it would seem you question the German genocide against jews!


Ronald, the pieces he cited don't question that a massacre took place. They question the veracity of automatically assuming the Russians were behind it, when circumstantial evidence suggests the opposite. The "trusted" New York Times is primary source behind this story. How can you make the argument that only someone who is "hate-driven" would ever question it? The New York Times is beyond reproach and never to be questioned?
 
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Scott Downey

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Ronald, the pieces he cited don't question that a massacre took place. They question the veracity of automatically assuming the Russians were behind it, when circumstantial evidence suggests the opposite. The "trusted" New York Times is primary source behind this story. How can you make the argument that only someone who is "hate-driven" would ever question it? The New York Times is beyond reproach and never to be questioned?
yes, agree.
I dont view Zelenski as one of the good guys.
In reality there are no good guys (except Christ) , just bad ones and more bad ones. Some few are better than others. Your deluded if you think government is the good guy.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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Ronald, the pieces he cited don't question that a massacre took place. They question the veracity of automatically assuming the Russians were behind it, when circumstantial evidence suggests the opposite. The "trusted" New York Times is primary source behind this story. How can you make the argument that only someone who is "hate-driven" would ever question it? The New York Times is beyond reproach and never to be questioned?

And that is the key-"CIRCUMSTANTIAL". Hard evidence like eyewitnesses and the fact that Russia controlled the cities and had roaming patrols in those cities make it very very very daming against Russia. Millions of refugees speak of Russian atrocities. Ukrainian soldiers are visibly helping their citizens flee and prvde them with materials they have to help them cope. While anything is possible the hard evidence speaks against Ukraine doing this to its own people.
 

Ronald Nolette

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yes, agree.
I dont view Zelenski as one of the good guys.
In reality there are no good guys (except Christ) , just bad ones and more bad ones. Some few are better than others. Your deluded if you think government is the good guy.


Scott we agree 100% here. In the line of Ukrainian presidents, Zelensky so far appears to be teh best of a bad lot.

I always tell people on forums, that when Christians vote, we hold our noses and choose the lesser of two evils. Even Trump! He dia good job politically, but his personal life is a stench.

Even this latest of child trafficking would not surprise me. America has child trafficker s here as well as people exploiting people. Russia and China as well. Pretyy much all nations have very nasty skeletons in trheir closet.

That is why we are the light of the world- the world is dark dark dark. America included.