I mean amazing compared to the over polluted, empty cesspool that is todays world. Sorry for thinking that a kingdom of heaven may come.
The Church and the State
- Thread starter Prentis
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I mean amazing compared to the over polluted, empty cesspool that is todays world. Sorry for thinking that a kingdom of heaven may come.
Brother, I tell you this with love :)
We can't create anything good. Even if physically it looks good and feels good, if it is not the will of God, it goes against his revelation.
Christ said we would always have the power, 'so follow me' he says. Should we love and take care of the poor we encounter? Yes. But the all powerfull God has allowed poverty. We should have compassion, but we also have to see that a God perfectly in control has allowed it, has a purpose in it, and he will set all things right in the end (Lazarus). God is not interested in social justice and making everyone okay today. This life is so short, it's just a test. If a man can go through life poor, but remains contrite and humble before God because of it, then it's actually a blessing, he gets eternity with God! How can we then judge poverty as a terrible thing? We are judging instead of letting God judge? That doesn't mean we condone poverty. We help those in need. Only we stop fooling ourselves into thinking we can fix things and get on with our calling to follow Christ.
We can't create anything good. Even if physically it looks good and feels good, if it is not the will of God, it goes against his revelation.
Christ said we would always have the power, 'so follow me' he says. Should we love and take care of the poor we encounter? Yes. But the all powerfull God has allowed poverty. We should have compassion, but we also have to see that a God perfectly in control has allowed it, has a purpose in it, and he will set all things right in the end (Lazarus). God is not interested in social justice and making everyone okay today. This life is so short, it's just a test. If a man can go through life poor, but remains contrite and humble before God because of it, then it's actually a blessing, he gets eternity with God! How can we then judge poverty as a terrible thing? We are judging instead of letting God judge? That doesn't mean we condone poverty. We help those in need. Only we stop fooling ourselves into thinking we can fix things and get on with our calling to follow Christ.
Well Prentis I say this with a lot of love you don't sound like much of a leader. You seem to have all the verses memorized but this world is desperate for wise men. If you were a politician and you could either give yourself a pay raise or build a shelter for homeless people what would you do ? Should be an easy answer for you. You have a lot of good inside you brother I think you could benefit from the teachings of Solomon in Proverbs and Ezekiel.
Proverbs 3:13 "Blessed is the man who finds wisdom, the man who gains understanding for she is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold. She is more precious than Rubies nothing you desire can compare to her." Long life is in her right hand in her left hand are riches and honour.
I don't know why God would allow poverty, sometimes I think it is designed into our society by the wealthy elites or even the justice system. But then again some guys are just born lazy.
Oh brother, let me clarify what I say.
The answer to your question is that I wouldn't be a politician. It is a role that I would refuse.
If you read what I said again, you would see that I said that we SHOULD feed the poor among us. A politician should indeed feed the poor.
But as disciples of Christ, our first priority is not social justice, we know that God will set things right in the end, and we follow his command; follow me! Even if the poor are there. We are not there to try and figure out the worlds social justice problems, we are there to shine the light of Christ.
Yes, that includes taking care of and loving our neighbor, and the poor and widows we encounter. We do that, but we don't let that be our focus. Christ says 'if you do not hate your mother, father, brother, etc, you can have no part with me'. What he's saying is that unless your love for them is like hatred compared to your love for HIM, you can have no part with him. How much more then is that true of our neighbor, and all those around us, whether wealthy or in need?
Paul did not go around raising orphanages, he went around raising churches (Christ through him). As a result, yes, everything is shared, people are fed and helped. That is good. But that is not the ultimate aim. The aim is Christ; we shouldn't aim for anything else. To be conformed to his image, to walk in his power, and to spread his Gospel.
Blessings :)
Well God bless you for turning down a role of power that is a big thing to say.... So how was your summer in Montreal brother ?
I would turn it down because that is NOT what I am called too. I don't want to speak hastily, and say I will not fail. That is not my claim. But as a disciple of Christ, I have no interest in participating in politics or become a king in this life.
My summer? Why the question in this subject?
Well, if you want to know... I was working, while having a harder time in my walk with the Lord, then I got laid off of work the same time I was taking my vacation, just on time for my wedding, and now I'm still laid off and seeking the Lord. He's revived my life in Him, and I've been seeking since. I just don't want to fail my test this time and I want to shine the light. That's my summer in a bullet!
My summer? Why the question in this subject?
Well, if you want to know... I was working, while having a harder time in my walk with the Lord, then I got laid off of work the same time I was taking my vacation, just on time for my wedding, and now I'm still laid off and seeking the Lord. He's revived my life in Him, and I've been seeking since. I just don't want to fail my test this time and I want to shine the light. That's my summer in a bullet!
Oh I don't know Just curious about Montreal, Ive never been there and I hear it is a nice place.
Ok... Well to be honest I don't know that much about Montreal either :lol:
As far as tourism, I've visited the vieux port (old port), I've been there a few times to go to visit schools, find shops, etc. I'm not a big visitor of places. :)
God bless you, bro
As far as tourism, I've visited the vieux port (old port), I've been there a few times to go to visit schools, find shops, etc. I'm not a big visitor of places. :)
God bless you, bro
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Choir Loft
The poll leaves several options out.
That the church should SOMETIMES work with the government.
That the church should ALWAYS be the conscience of society.
That the church should ALWAYS be the voice of reason.
That the church should BE a force of restraint.
The problem is that is seldom fulfills this function.
That the church should SOMETIMES work with the government.
That the church should ALWAYS be the conscience of society.
That the church should ALWAYS be the voice of reason.
That the church should BE a force of restraint.
The problem is that is seldom fulfills this function.
Well, it was about whether the state or the church should be working together, so most of what you say (except for the first one) doesn't really apply... Unless I misunderstood you. :)
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Choir Loft
Doesn't apply?
Are you saying that the church SHOULD NOT be the conscience of society? If not the church then what, pray tell, would fulfill that role? Madison Avenue? Hollywood? The Mafia?
Are you saying that the church SHOULD NOT be the voice of reason? If not the church then what? The media? Politicians? Comedians?
Are you saying that the church SHOULD NOT be a force of restraint? If not the church then what? Homeland Security? TSA? Congress? The Constitution, which is being gutted every day?
I think I detect a bit of anti-church and pro-government attitude here. My country right or wrong. Right?
WRONG.
You completely misunderstood me. :)
I said it doesn't apply because it doesn't apply to the question. The question, might I remind you, was whether the church should work along with the state.
The question was not what role should the church fulfill, or what should it do. It was, should it work with the state.
And I'm the opposite of what you say. I am not pro government. The government is corrupted by the power of money and of greed. Only the church should not tie itself to something that corrupts it. A little leaven leavens the whole batch!
I said it doesn't apply because it doesn't apply to the question. The question, might I remind you, was whether the church should work along with the state.
The question was not what role should the church fulfill, or what should it do. It was, should it work with the state.
And I'm the opposite of what you say. I am not pro government. The government is corrupted by the power of money and of greed. Only the church should not tie itself to something that corrupts it. A little leaven leavens the whole batch!
-- You absolutely miss the point.
"that the government has decided it is easier to restrict everyone than it is to accommodate everyone." - Aspen
The simple fact is that - according to the United States Constitution - the goverment DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO THIS.
Here, let me provide you with some clarity:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
Did you catch that 2nd half? "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
It has nothing to do with Christians vs. other denominations. It has to do with the U.S. Government committing a crime by chosing to ignore what it says about Constitutional protections of ALL FAITHS.
The U.S. Government has no right to violate the Constitution in order to "provide equality between religions." Especially since by upholding the Constitution they would actually BE providing equality between religions.
As far as your statement, "It is interesting to me watching Christians reacting negatively to be restricted, but offering no ideas for accommodation of all religions present in American,today....."
By standing up for their own rights, Christians are de facto standing up for the rights of all religions.
Your statement is however a dishonest implication (accusation) towards all Christians and that is - at very best - disingenuous.
The governments of this world will never act righteously.
They are slaves to money and power. To expect or think that they will do what is right is to fool oneself.
They are slaves to money and power. To expect or think that they will do what is right is to fool oneself.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
"Ah, the obligatory kick in the ass at the end of the post! Pure class!" - Aspen
-- It is interesting to me watching Christians reacting negatively to be restricted, but offering no ideas for accommodation of all religions present in American,today....." - Aspen
I actually was being kind when I said that statement was only "disingenuous."
Blanket accusations that are judgemental to all Christians (except yourself of course) are your forte'.
The fact that you would state that the government is not obligated to enforce the Constitution is very telling, as well.
Perhaps you do deserve that kick.
-- It is interesting to me watching Christians reacting negatively to be restricted, but offering no ideas for accommodation of all religions present in American,today....." - Aspen
I actually was being kind when I said that statement was only "disingenuous."
Blanket accusations that are judgemental to all Christians (except yourself of course) are your forte'.
The fact that you would state that the government is not obligated to enforce the Constitution is very telling, as well.
Perhaps you do deserve that kick.
Yes, we are also to pray for our enemies, does that mean our enemies will love us? Be our lovers? Only if we compromise with them!
I have no idea where your comment came from since it has absolutely nothing to do with my comment to you or your comment before that.
No one said anything about our enemies loving us or being "our lovers."
Christians will always have enemies. Even if we are exactly as God calls us to be.
Actually, ESPECIALLY if we are exactly as God calls us to be.
No one said anything about our enemies loving us or being "our lovers."
Christians will always have enemies. Even if we are exactly as God calls us to be.
Actually, ESPECIALLY if we are exactly as God calls us to be.
Exactly :)
If we expect the government to act righteously, we'll get a reality check soon. The government is corrupted by money, power, etc.
If the church allies itself with the government, it opens the door for the same perversion. That's just what I was pointing to.
We are to pray for the government, yes, but not ally ourselves with it.
If we expect the government to act righteously, we'll get a reality check soon. The government is corrupted by money, power, etc.
If the church allies itself with the government, it opens the door for the same perversion. That's just what I was pointing to.
We are to pray for the government, yes, but not ally ourselves with it.
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