The Conundrum of Zechariah Ch. 14

[Davy]

And you are claiming that Jesus only reigns because satan is bound.

What rabbit hat did you pull that out of?

Jesus reigns because He is God not because satan is bound. Satan isn't Gods equal.

And what rabbit hat did you find that idea from?

Apostle Peter told us in 2 Peter 3 why God has declared a "thousand years" reign over the unsaved by Lord Jesus when He returns...

2 Peter 3:8-9
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
KJV

 

[Marty fox]

What rabbit hat did you pull that out of?



And what rabbit hat did you find that idea from?

Apostle Peter told us in 2 Peter 3 why God has declared a "thousand years" reign over the unsaved by Lord Jesus when He returns...

2 Peter 3:8-9
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
KJV

That didn't address my post at all

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That last part you are jumping... a time gap, the "thousand years" reign Rev.20 declares Jesus will reign with His elect prior... to their going into the "lake of fire". Also, how do you know they all go into the "lake of fire", because one or more of them might convert to Jesus Christ during that "thousand years" reign? What your false Amill doctrine is doing is taking away God's Judgment decisions and trying to replace it with 'men's' faulty judgment.

And FYI, if one accurately follows the Revelation 20 events 'as written', then it includes that "thousand years" time of Jesus' reign over the wicked. So you're not keeping God's Word as written; you are following doctrines of men.

You are following doctrines of your active imagination.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What rabbit hat did you pull that out of?



And what rabbit hat did you find that idea from?

Apostle Peter told us in 2 Peter 3 why God has declared a "thousand years" reign over the unsaved by Lord Jesus when He returns...

2 Peter 3:8-9
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
KJV

You don't know how to interpret scripture in context. The context of verse 9 is in relation to the Lord's patience while giving time for people to repent up until the time that Jesus fulfills the promise of His second coming and returns. That verse has absolutely nothing to do with a time period after He returns.

 

[Earburner]

What rabbit hat did you pull that out of?



And what rabbit hat did you find that idea from?

Apostle Peter told us in 2 Peter 3 why God has declared a "thousand years" reign over the unsaved by Lord Jesus when He returns...

2 Peter 3:8-9
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
KJV

And a Captain whose Jet plane goes into a nose dive into the ocean, also is not willing that any should perish, but that ALL on board should have obtained a personal life jacket.

 

[Davy]

I put these folks back on IGNORE. They had their chance to not mock and show they have some manners, but I guess they weren't raised to know manners.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I put these folks back on IGNORE. They had their chance to not mock and show they have some manners, but I guess they weren't raised to know manners.

Do I need to show a sampling of your posts displaying your bad manners or are you being purposely ironic here as some kind of joke?

 

[Marty fox]

Is this supposed to mean that the first resurrection 2000 years ago explains--and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saint with thee? If yes I obviously disagree. How do you then make that work in verse 4? When Christ rose, since when did that lead to His feet standing upon the mount of Olives at the time? One can't divorce verse 4 from verse 5.

Verse 4 involves a valley and mountain and so does verse 5. Obviously then, they are connected. And that verse 5 makes zero sense without verse 4 and that verse 4 makes zero sense without verse 5, in regard to a valley and mountains.

I do find it interesting that you think that "in that day" started in the first century and is still happening today but you still think that the thousand years is only a thousand years.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I do find it interesting that you think that "in that day" started in the first century and is still happening today but you still think that the thousand years is only a thousand years.

He's very inconsistent in his approach to interpreting scripture, as all people are who try to make scripture say what they want it to say. I have called him out on that several times in the past and he won't acknowledge it. But, it's obvious.

 

[ewq1938]

I do find it interesting that you think that "in that day" started in the first century and is still happening today but you still think that the thousand years is only a thousand years.

Isn't that like reading of the 12 disciples in the gospels and assuming 12 meant 50, or a Million? Why not accept the number given?

 

[Marty fox]

Isn't that like reading of the 12 disciples in the gospels and assuming 12 meant 50, or a Million? Why not accept the number given?

I'm sure that we have gone over this before a few times but its not the same when the bible has used a thousand t not to mean a thousand more than once.

But my point was that Dave sees "in that day" to be over two thousand years and counting but a thousand years to only be a thousand years.

That's not consistent

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Isn't that like reading of the 12 disciples in the gospels and assuming 12 meant 50, or a Million? Why not accept the number given?

We're talking about the most highly symbolic book in the Bible here. There's a lot of symbolism in the book, but somehow numbers can't be symbolic? The word "thousand" is used figuratively elsewhere in the Bible, so why not in Revelation 20?

 

[Davidpt]

I do find it interesting that you think that "in that day" started in the first century and is still happening today but you still think that the thousand years is only a thousand years.

It's simple. For one, some of us, unlike some of you, are paying attention to the context and chronology in Zechariah 14.

In my view, so maybe not in the view of all Premils, 'in that day' began 2000 years ago(Zechariah 12 not Zechariah 14) and is involving 3 days total, thus 3000 years. From His first advent through His return = 2 days, 2000 years. The millennium that follows equals the third day, thus the third 1000 year day era. And in Zechariah 14 there is not one single thing in that entire chapter that is involving the first century. Zechariah 14 becomes relevant only when the approaching DOTL becomes relevant. Which means Zechariah 14 starts off with great tribulation, thus verse 2. Followed by the DOTL, thus verses 4-5, 12. Followed by the millennium, thus verses 6-11 and verses 16-19(these latter verses involving ruling with a rod of iron).

Are some of you blind or something? Can you not see how Zechariah 14 starts off? What does the DOTL have to do with first century events? Explain that one? Especially any Amils who are not also Preterists like you are.

 

[Davidpt]

I'm sure that we have gone over this before a few times but its not the same when the bible has used a thousand t not to mean a thousand more than once.

But my point was that Dave sees "in that day" to be over two thousand years and counting but a thousand years to only be a thousand years.

That's not consistent

I'm being consistent, though. Just look at post #313 I just posted.

 

[ewq1938]

I'm sure that we have gone over this before a few times but its not the same when the bible has used a thousand t not to mean a thousand more than once.

The Greek word is never used in that way. It can only mean exactly a thousand.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's simple. For one, some of us, unlike some of you, are paying attention to the context and chronology in Zechariah 14.

In my view, so maybe not in the view of all Premils, 'in that day' began 2000 years ago(Zechariah 12 not Zechariah 14) and is involving 3 days total, thus 3000 years. From His first advent through His return = 2 days, 2000 years. The millennium that follows equals the third day, thus the third 1000 year day era. And in Zechariah 14 there is not one single thing in that entire chapter that is involving the first century. Zechariah 14 becomes relevant only when the approaching DOTL becomes relevant. Which means Zechariah 14 starts off with great tribulation, thus verse 2. Followed by the DOTL, thus verses 4-5, 12. Followed by the millennium, thus verses 6-11 and verses 16-19(these latter verses involving ruling with a rod of iron).

Please explain what you mean when you say verses 16-19 involve "ruling with a rod of iron". Explain how you think that will work exactly. Keeping in mind that ruling with a rod of iron relates to this...

Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ ”

And keep in mind that you think He will somehow rule over the same people that He will smite and that He will tread in the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And that will be destroyed during "the supper of the great God".

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Are some of you blind or something?

LOL. Says the blind man who can't see all the scriptures which teach that all unbelievers will be destroyed when Jesus returns.

Can you not see how Zechariah 14 starts off? What does the DOTL have to do with first century events? Explain that one? Especially any Amils who are not also Preterists like you are.

What does the DOTL have to do with the feast of tabernacles and going to worship in Jerusalem and having no rain if you don't, etc.? Stop your gaslighting and tell us how you interpret Zechariah 14:16-21. Be as specific as possible. You are acting as if you have a total grasp on what Zechariah 14 is all about, so it's time to put your money where your mouth is and give us your interpretation of Zechariah 14:16-21.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Greek word is never used in that way. It can only mean exactly a thousand.

That is absolutely false. For one thing, any Greek word can potentially be used figuratively. There is no rule that says only certain words can be used to symbolize something.

Also, the Hebrew word "eleph" means one thousand. Yet, it is used figuratively to refer to a large, unknown number in verses like these...

Deuteronomy 7:9 Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand (Hebrew: eleph) generations;

Psalm 50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand (Hebrew: eleph) hills.

So, why would you argue that the Greek word that normally means literally one thousand cannot be used figuratively without also making the same argument about the Hebrew word that normally means literally one thousand? Again, any word can potentially be used figuratively, so there is no basis for saying that any word can't be used figuratively.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Isn't that like reading of the 12 disciples in the gospels and assuming 12 meant 50, or a Million? Why not accept the number given?

Psalm 50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

What you're saying here is like saying that we have to accept the number given in Psalm 50:10, which means we have to accept that God only owns the cattle on exactly one thousand hills and does not own the cattle on the rest of the hills.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm being consistent, though. Just look at post #313 I just posted.

Do you at least acknowledge that the the thousand years in Revelation 20 could be figurative? It would not be consistent to see a reference to "that day" as referring to a thousand or thousands of years rather than a literal 24 hour day while at the same time not even allowing that the thousand years of Revelation 20 could possibly not be referring to a literal one thousand years.

 

[William Barton]

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained "Future"?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the future armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building. Luke 21:24, Rev 11:2

The 70th literal week will see (The Beast/The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Actually it reads "seventy sevens" (שבעים שבעים), (Daniel 9:24), where a "seven" is a 360-day year. "Decree to rebuild" (Dan 9:26) was issued by King Cyrus of Persia in March 5, 444 B.C. "Coming Ruler" refers to Jesus, who made his triumphal entry into Jerusalem on March 39, 30 A.D. This is 69 "sevens," where "seven" is seven 360-day years. The final "seven" refers to the rule in Jerusalem of Antichrist.

See also Revelation 19:11-21, return of Jesus with his mighty angels. Crunch time!