The Covering Dynamic

[marks]

Here you go again with your "exact words" line of reasoning. Does scripture itself tell us we should take that approach to it? Have you ever read 1 Corinthians 2:9-16?

What I said was . . . this is what the passages says. What is the reason why we should read it some other way?

You respond, "here you go with your "exact words" . . .". OK. Do you have a problem with reading a passage the ways its written, and must arbitrarily change it into something else? Or do you have a reason?

You must have a reason, right? So what it is? What gives you the Biblical authority to read a passage, like in Zechariah 14, and declare it's not actually destribing the actual things that will happen?

So why do you believe Zechariah 14 doesn't describe what will actually happen?

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

Yes indeed Jesus is our great priest.

And, Israel will always remain a nation before God.

Jeremiah 31:35-37
(35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
(36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
(37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Much love!

Scripture declares there are TWO separate Israels.

a.) Israel of the flesh = Romans ch9, John ch1

b.) Israel of God/Spirit/Born-Again = Gospel, Romans, Acts, Ephesians, Galatians, Revelation

 

[marks]

On the contrary!

The Holy Spirit positioned these scriptures in such a way that only points to Fulfillment of Prophecy.

I believe those prophecies will be fulfulled.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Scripture declares there are TWO separate Israels.

a.) Israel of the flesh = Romans ch9, John ch1

b.) Israel of God/Spirit/Born-Again = Gospel, Romans, Acts, Ephesians, Galatians, Revelation

I declare Jeremiah is Spirit Inspired and his prophecies will be fulfilled.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

I believe those prophecies will be fulfulled.

Much love!

Scripture says that the specific Prophecy of Jeremiah ch31 has been precisely fulfilled in Christ = Gospel, Acts, Hebrews, Ephesians, Galatians

 

[David in NJ]

I declare Jeremiah is Spirit Inspired and his prophecies will be fulfilled.

Much love!

Scripture says that the specific Prophecy of Jeremiah ch31 has been precisely fulfilled in Christ and in those who belong to Him under His New Covenant = Gospel, Acts, Hebrews, Ephesians, Galatians

 

[rwb]

I believe those prophecies will be fulfulled.

Much love!

I've not witnessed anyone denying the prophesies of old. But you, like unbelieving Jews today, fail to understand the prophesies of old are fulfilled in Christ. The only prophesy left to be fulfilled is Christ, as King of kings and Lord of lords coming again with glory and in wrath to gather together all who are in Him, and to make all things new again! You're still waiting for the Messiah, promised of Old to come to an ethnic people, but Scripture is clear that Christ is not a respecter of persons, and in Him there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but a people of faith called, "the Israel of God".

 

[rwb]

I believe those prophecies will be fulfulled.

Much love!

As David NJ has already stated the prophecies of Old are fulfilled in Christ. But you are locked into Christian Zionistic dispensationalism which is the greatest betrayal of Israel. You promote a doctrine that tells the unbelieving nation they need not worry because Christ will come to them and all of them will be saved. This is an abomination unto God, for it denies their need to turn to Christ NOW in this age or they shall suffer the wrath through fire that shall come upon the whole earth when the Lord Jesus comes again.

 

[marks]

I've not witnessed anyone denying the prophesies of old. But you, like unbelieving Jews today, fail to understand the prophesies of old are fulfilled in Christ. The only prophesy left to be fulfilled is Christ, as King of kings and Lord of lords coming again with glory and in wrath to gather together all who are in Him, and to make all things new again! You're still waiting for the Messiah, promised of Old to come to an ethnic people, but Scripture is clear that Christ is not a respecter of persons, and in Him there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but a people of faith called, "the Israel of God".

See, the way it seems to me, I still believe the prophecies in the OT, that when God makes promises, He keeps them.

And it's all over the OT that Israel will be restored to her land, that God will fulfill their covenant, and give them the blessings, and all these things.

And at the same time, I believe God's word in the NT, that in Christ we are one. I believe both these things, and see how they harmonize.

So others, they understand the "we are one in Christ", but they don't understand how ethnic Israel can still be God's chosen people. They don't believe that God still preserves them as a nation, which will be saved, when Jesus returns.

And in that lack of understanding declare, These passages can't mean what they say! They just can't! They have to be allegory for something!

It seems to me that I'm more the believer, not less.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You promote a doctrine that tells the unbelieving nation they need not worry because Christ will come to them and all of them will be saved.

You, as do others, make a serious mistake towards communication when you try to put words into my mouth.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Scripture says that the specific Prophecy of Jeremiah ch31 has been precisely fulfilled in Christ and in those who belong to Him under His New Covenant = Gospel, Acts, Hebrews, Ephesians, Galatians

Jeremiah 31:33-37 KJV
33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

What are the highlights of this prophecy?

Ezekiel 39:26-29 KJV
26) After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
27) When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28) Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29) Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

And this one?

I think these will be fulfilled.

Are there any Israelites still remaining in countries apart from Israel? We could start there. Or wherever you like. And please, please, don't just give references, show the passage. Show the words that tell us about these things so we can look at them together.

Much love!

 

[No Pre-TB]

As David NJ has already stated the prophecies of Old are fulfilled in Christ. But you are locked into Christian Zionistic dispensationalism which is the greatest betrayal of Israel. You promote a doctrine that tells the unbelieving nation they need not worry because Christ will come to them and all of them will be saved. This is an abomination unto God, for it denies their need to turn to Christ NOW in this age or they shall suffer the wrath through fire that shall come upon the whole earth when the Lord Jesus comes again.

I always found it odd, that the Pre-Tbs I know would say, its not us that will be getting the Jews to turn from their way and believe (during the tribulation) cause well be gone off world. It'll be God's wrath on them again, that causes them to somehow turn. Now, I know the Holocaust was bad but I guess it wasnt bad enough cause they didnt turn then. Someone all these people that are left behind will sow themselves and water themselves till they turn to Jesus. Oh and the HS won't be here to guide them because it's the restrainer. It is really upsetting dogma when you think about it.

 

[marks]

Scripture says that the specific Prophecy of Jeremiah ch31 has been precisely fulfilled in Christ = Gospel, Acts, Hebrews, Ephesians, Galatians

Post the verses, let's see what they say.

Much love!

 

[rwb]

See, the way it seems to me, I still believe the prophecies in the OT, that when God makes promises, He keeps them.

And it's all over the OT that Israel will be restored to her land, that God will fulfill their covenant, and give them the blessings, and that all this.

And at the same time, I believe God's word in the NT, that in Christ we are one. I believe both these things, and see how they harmonize.

So others, they understand the "we are one in Christ", but they don't understand how ethnic Israel can still be God's chosen people. They don't believe that God still preserves them as a nation, which will be saved, when Jesus returns.

And in that lack of understanding declare, These passages can't mean what they say! They just can't! They have to allegory for something!

It seems to me that I'm more the believer, not less.

Much love!

You don't appear to know who Israel that shall be saved are??? Why would believers (Israel of God) be content with inheriting again the land of promise, since in Christ believers shall inherit the whole new earth? Your doctrine is informed using only that which is written in the Old without using the New to confirm you have rightly understood the Old. If you took the time to find confirmation using the New Testament, you would find the prophecies of Old are fulfilled in Christ. Those of Israel, like people in every nation of the world, are the chosen people of God IF they believe in Christ according to grace through faith.

 

[Truth7t7]

There is a terrestrial realm and celestial realm. Jesus comes to gather us to Him into the celestial realm while the earth-dwellers are being tested and proven.

Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End)

There won't be a pre-trib rapture as you claim over and over, it's a man made fairy tale, the invention of John N. Darby 1830's and promoted by C.I. Scofield's 1909 reference Bible better known as dispensationalism

 

[No Pre-TB]

Are there any Israelites still remaining in countries apart from Israel?

Arnt we all Israelites according to Romans 2:29, Romans 9:6-8, John 8:39, Galatians 6:16, Galatians 4:23 and 28, Genesis 21:12 with Hebrews 11:18, Romans 9:25-27, Romans 11:16-17, John 10:16, Ephesians 2:12; 14; 19, Philippians 3:3, Isaiah 44:5, Ezekiel 47:22-23, Hosea 1:10-11 just to name a few. We were aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and we are no longer strangers but citizens.

Unless I misunderstood your question to him.

 

[rwb]

I always found it odd, that the Pre-Tbs I know would say, its not us that will be getting the Jews to turn from their way and believe (during the tribulation) cause well be gone off world. It'll be God's wrath on them again, that causes them to somehow turn. Now, I know the Holocaust was bad but I guess it wasnt bad enough cause they didnt turn then. Someone all these people that are left behind will sow themselves and water themselves till they turn to Jesus. Oh and the HS won't be here to guide them because it's the restrainer. It is really upsetting dogma when you think about it.

Today, or this age is the day/age/time/era from the beginning of redemptive history until Christ comes the second time for which mankind MUST be saved. During this age of TIME the covering (unbelief) must be removed from the hearts and minds of those who shall be eternally saved. Whosoever, whether Jew or Gentile remains in unbelief when Christ comes again shall be forever lost, and doomed to be judged according to what is written in the books and the book of life. Christ will return when the seventh angel begins to sound that time given this earth for man to be saved shall be no longer.

 

[David in NJ]

Post the verses, let's see what they say.

Much love!

They were already given to you from Hebrews ch8 = make sure you get the Point

Now this is the main point of the things we are saying:
We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.

3For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer. 4For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; 5who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” 6But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End)

There won't be a pre-trib rapture as you claim over and over, it's a man made fairy tale, the invention of John N. Darby 1830's and promoted by C.I. Scofield's 1909 reference Bible better known as dispensationalism

What @marks basically said was correct.
1. There is a terrestrial realm and celestial realm. 1 Cor 15:40
2. Jesus comes to gather us to Him. 2 Thessalonians 2:1
3. the earth-dwellers are being tested Revelation 3:10

Your reply to his comment you quoted was odd.

 

[Truth7t7]

What @marks basically said was correct.
1. There is a terrestrial realm and celestial realm. 1 Cor 15:40
2. Jesus comes to gather us to Him. 2 Thessalonians 2:1
3. the earth-dwellers are being tested Revelation 3:10

Your reply to his comment you quoted was odd.

It wasn't odd, it opposed marks claim of a pre-trib rapture found no place in scripture

He stated Jesus gathers a group to a heavenly realm, while humans are left on earth being tested, this is the pre-trib rapture in a pretty package, perhaps you didn't notice the pretty pink bow on it?