The Covering Dynamic

[Spiritual Israelite]

Because it's His choice, and this is what He chose.

Do you really think this is a legitimate answer to that question? It is not. Jesus doesn't just do things for no reason. There has to be a reason why He will meet us in the air. You can't even venture a guess as to what the reason might be?

 

[marks]

Why would He do that? Why would we not just meet Him in heaven instead of in the air if we're going to heaven at that time?

Any time you ask, Why did God . . . ?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Do you really think this is a legitimate answer to that question? It is not. Jesus doesn't just do things for no reason. There has to be a reason why He will meet us in the air. You can't even venture a guess as to what the reason might be?

I don't actually think it's a legitamate question. I mean, it's OK to ask, OK to wonder, but, if you don't know the reason, that's not evidence against the concept. The cross of Christ is foolishness to the Greeks, maybe the rapture is foolishness to you?

You want to me to give you my guess of why? I can imagine different things. Why did Jesus ascend into heaven? Doesn't everyone know, Heaven isn't just "up in the sky"?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Do you really think this is a legitimate answer to that question? It is not. Jesus doesn't just do things for no reason. There has to be a reason why He will meet us in the air. You can't even venture a guess as to what the reason might be?

The Bible says what it says, teaches what it teaches, whether or not anyone has the correct sense of "Why." My guesses don't mean anything, but one thing I see all over the Bible, God uses all sorts of things to accomplish His will.

A great sea creature to swallow Jonah. Fire from heaven. Lavers and altars and curtains and robes and breastplates and ceremony. 6 days of creation. Why?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Do you know why? Because when Christ comes at the Resurrection/Rapture He DOES NOT return to earth. He comes "in the air" and immediately returns to Heaven. So that is not a coming as described in His Second Coming (Rev 1:7).

Christ first revealed the truth of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture just before His crucifixion, and prior to that in His parables. Then Paul spoke about it many times, and the apostolic churches expected Christ to come for His saints within their lifetimes. The reason being that the Rapture was always an imminent event -- unexpected and unannounced (unlike the Second Coming).

Jesus ascended into the sky as His way of returning to heaven. It looks like we'll be going into the heavenly realm in the same manner, only, we won't be rising up ourselves, He will catch us up into the sky to join Him, to be forever with Him.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Any time you ask, Why did God . . . ?

I'm questioning you, not God. And you seem to have no answers.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don't actually think it's a legitamate question. I mean, it's OK to ask, OK to wonder, but, if you don't know the reason, that's not evidence against the concept. The cross of Christ is foolishness to the Greeks, maybe the rapture is foolishness to you?

You are very confused. I'm not asking the question because I don't have an answer to it. I'm asking if YOU have an answer to that question. And I see that you don't.

 

[David in NJ]

I'm questioning you, not God. And you seem to have no answers.

@marks Post #45 is a main part of our LORD's Plan for us.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Bible says what it says, teaches what it teaches, whether or not anyone has the correct sense of "Why." My guesses don't mean anything, but one thing I see all over the Bible, God uses all sorts of things to accomplish His will.

To me, the fact that you have no explanation for why the events that you think will happen are going to happen shows that your doctrine is weak. And the fact that you think that certain things will happen and that there is no scripture describing the effects of those things is evidence of the weakness of your doctrine as well.

A great sea creature to swallow Jonah. Fire from heaven. Lavers and altars and curtains and robes and breastplates and ceremony. 6 days of creation. Why?

Do you really not have answers to those questions? God did what he did to Jonah as punishment for trying to get away from what God was telling him to do in Nineveh. It also served as a foreshadowing of Christ's death and resurrection. Which fire from heaven are you talking about? 6 days of creation because God planned for there to be 24 hour days and 7 day weeks during which man would do work for 6 days and rest on the 7th day. It seems that there are some things that are mysteries to you that shouldn't be. A vast majority of things described in scripture have explanations behind them. But, somehow, there is no explanation for why we would meet Jesus in the air when He comes? No explanation of what the effects of a pre-trib rapture would be? Really? No, I don't believe that is reasonable.

 

[marks]

Do you really not have answers to those questions? God did what he did to Jonah as punishment for trying to get away from what God was telling him to do in Nineveh.

Why didn't He just have a large bird pick Jonah up from the docks and deposit him on the wall of Ninaveh? Do you see what I'm saying here?

This is all a bunch of sophistry to me, why this, why not that, the thing I care about is the Bible teaching. We can go in circles all day over our speculations of why and why not.

As far as I'm concerned, we're just at the beginning of our discussion, and already you are saying things like, You haven't answered my question so you must not have an answer so you must be wrong. To me, that's not valid.

I've not answered these speculation questions because I'm trying to establish that human speculations of God's intents and reasoning when not revealed by God is pointless to understanding doctrine. We will all have our opinions, but the real matter is, what does the Bible say, not, what can we fill in about what it doesn't say.

I have lots of thoughts on this topic, lots of information from the Scriptures, and I've posted here as tiny tiny part of it so far. Be patient! And no presuming. If this conversation is something you want to do.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You are very confused.

Sure thing!

I'm not interested in these kinds of personal derogatory statements. This kind of discussion already has it's difficulties, add this in, that just makes it worse.

I'm not here to talk about me, or your negative opinions of me, which you seem to feel free to freely share.

Much love!

 

[marks]

And I see that you don't.

What you see is that I haven't written an answer to your question because I question it's validity towards determining doctrine, where you see to feel it has a place.

That I haven't written an answer, and whether or not I have an answer, you must realize these are two different things.

One of my chief complaints in these kinds of discussions is a lack of attention to these sorts of things, whether it's my posts, or Scripture. It's just not a logical reasonable approach.

SI: Here's my question . . .

M: I don't think it's a proper question.

SI: Oh, then you don't know!

That's non-sequitor, a logical fallacy, and does anyone care?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I'm questioning you, not God. And you seem to have no answers.

Yes, I understand that. You are asking me Why did God do/not do . . .

And you'll rate my speculative answer according to your speculative answer and what will be accomplished?

Much love!

 

[marks]

God did what he did to Jonah as punishment for trying to get away from what God was telling him to do in Nineveh.

But why didn't He do it a different way?

Hm?

This is the kind of question you are asking.

Much love!

 

[marks]

@marks Post #45 is a main part of our LORD's Plan for us.

Amen! And I so look forward to being with Him, and you, and all the others!!!

Much love!

 

[marks]

This is called do not overlook the 'obvious'

obvious point (a): "Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you,"

obvious point (b): "you (Apostlic commandment) be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

obvious point(c): "For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren..... that there are contentions among you."

obvious CAUSE and NEGATIVE EFFECT = " Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?"

PEACE my Brother marks

I'd call it an "unrenewed mind", I think.

A fleshy mind cannot understand or receive God's Word, and if we are living in our fleshy mind, then we won't be of the same mind and same judgment.

Much love!

 

[marks]

allegorical prophecy(s).

What prophecies are you thinking of here as being allegorical?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Divisions in the Body of Christ come not from God but from 'human conjecture' upon the Holy Scriptures.
It is this 'human conjecture' that creates coverings over our minds - no one is excluded but we are all called to One Truth.

Amen! Yes, I'll agree with you, that when we start putting weight into our human conjecture/speculation, that prevents us from seeing truth sometimes, since we are looking the other way.

Is that along the lines of what you are expressing in this thread?

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

What prophecies are you thinking of here as being allegorical?

Much love!

Real People that give us allegorical prophecy(s) of the 1st Coming of Messiah and the Second Coming

#1 - Abraham/Isaac/Jacob = Gospel

#2 - Joseph = 1st and 2nd Comings

 

[David in NJ]

I'd call it an "unrenewed mind", I think.

A fleshy mind cannot understand or receive God's Word, and if we are living in our fleshy mind, then we won't be of the same mind and same judgment.

Much love!

Well, if you mean "unrenewed" as not 'saved' in 1 Cor ch1, i would have to disagree.

'Covered' minds due to the weaknesses of man, even when Saved by the Blood, is accurate and found throughout NT Scripture.