The creation of Eve

[KBCid]

ya, dunno if i can, but your earlier examples, Moses and Elijah @ the transfiguration, were only seen, not touched by anyone iow;

As I stated earlier spirits don't have a body so, one cannot view what another does not have. the fact that Christ specifically proves to viewers that he is not simply spirit but has flesh and bone and can eat would mean that all of man will resurrect from the dead with their bodies flesh and bone and as scripture stated it will be greatly improved which is what was seen with Moses and Elijah. If the two did not appear in the human form I'm sure someone would have said something about it.

the (then physically dead) Samuel exhibits a soul without a body, through the Witch of Endor; not sure if that means that he could not manifest one though, if he wanted... and i'm wondering if he could even keep from manifesting one, if he were returned to earth, tbh.

Ahhh Samuel... an interesting tale was it not? This is where if you can rightly divide God's word you would see things as they are.
1) you should know that mediums are a big fat no no to God right?
2) Saul never seen nor heard anything at the séance right?
3) finally the prediction made by the so call spirit of Samuel did not occur "Saul did not die by the hand of the Philistines". Saul took his own life.

So, knowing these few things would you still think that someone had communicated with Samuel.... an anointed of God while living and certainly still loved after death.

 

[bbyrd009]

As long as I can show the relevant scriptures along with the description of what the intended meaning is then how we get from point A to B is an open area.

i can't help but be minded of how the doctrines of men are developed and flourish with this; after all, aren't doctrines developed by men with the best of intentions?

"As long as I can show the relevant scriptures along with the description of what the intended meaning is..."

maybe if you gave an example?

 

[bbyrd009]

there are many who have their understanding veiled from properly dividing the word of God and this is by design.

implying that some see clearly, and are not deceived?

 

[bbyrd009]

As I stated earlier spirits don't have a body so, one cannot view what another does not have.

you lost me here; Moses and Elijah were viewed.

 

[bbyrd009]

This is where if you can rightly divide God's word you would see things as they are.

ha whenever i read this now i know i'm about to get hosed lol


no offense

 

[bbyrd009]

3) finally the prediction made by the so call spirit of Samuel did not occur "Saul did not die by the hand of the Philistines". Saul took his own life.

19The LORD will also hand Israel over to the Philistines along with you. Tomorrow youand your sons will be with me, v  w and the LORD will hand Israel’s army over to the Philistines.”

so, i guess Saul dying at the hand of the Philistines per se was not predicted

3The fighting grew fierce around Saul, and when the archers overtook him, they wounded him critically.

 

[KBCid]

i can't help but be minded of how the doctrines of men are developed and flourish with this; after all, aren't doctrines developed by men with the best of intentions?
"As long as I can show the relevant scriptures along with the description of what the intended meaning is..."
maybe if you gave an example?

Sure let's examine the Noah's ark story;

Genesis 7:1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. 2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. 3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

When read by most people they think that Noah was to carry a sample from all the creature life on the planet into the ark with him and his family. however, if you read the scripture carefully you would see that it actually says " Come thou and all thy house into the ark". The only animals to go into the ark were those that Noah possessed.

 

[KBCid]

you lost me here; Moses and Elijah were viewed.

Yes they were viewed which is why there was an offer to build structures for them. So, if they were viewed then they were not just spirits in the same way that Christ proved that he was not just a spirit

 

[bbyrd009]

So, knowing these few things would you still think that someone had communicated with Samuel

i dunno; are you saying that it never happened, or what exactly?

 

[bbyrd009]

Sure let's examine the Noah's ark story;

Genesis 7:1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. 2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. 3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

When read by most people they think that Noah was to carry a sample from all the creature life on the planet into the ark with him and his family. however, if you read the scripture carefully you would see that it actually says " Come thou and all thy house into the ark". The only animals to go into the ark were those that Noah possessed.

ok, and you think Noah just happened to have seven pairs of all kinds of birds in his possession? Possible, i guess, but surely you see that someone could develop a decent counter argument just based upon "thou shalteth taketh to thee..." or some other phrase, right. I'm tired or i would try myself.

 

[KBCid]

19The LORD will also hand Israel over to the Philistines along with you. Tomorrow youand your sons will be with me, v  w and the LORD will hand Israel’s army over to the Philistines.”
so, i guess Saul dying at the hand of the Philistines per se was not predicted

Saul was not handed over to the philistines. He was handed over to an Amalekite who killed and stripped him of his things.

 

[KBCid]

i dunno; are you saying that it never happened, or what exactly?

It is a question at hand.
Do you feel that God communicates his will through mediums?

 

[bbyrd009]

ha...ok, i'm not really seeing the point there, i guess. I'll try this again in the AM, g'night

 

[KBCid]

ok, and you think Noah just happened to have seven pairs of all kinds of birds in his possession? Possible, i guess, but surely you see that someone could develop a decent counter argument just based upon "thou shalteth taketh to thee..." or some other phrase, right. I'm tired or i would try myself.

How about logic? Is it more likely that one might fit animals owned by a family into an ark or that all the species in the world fit in the multiples defined? It specifically states his household you can follow the words or the logic but both exist.

 

[KBCid]

ok, and you think Noah just happened to have seven pairs of all kinds of birds in his possession? Possible, i guess, but surely you see that someone could develop a decent counter argument just based upon "thou shalteth taketh to thee..." or some other phrase, right. I'm tired or i would try myself.

How about Noah had some kinds of birds in his possession and of those birds it was directed that he take seven pairs. Make more sense now?

 

[bbyrd009]

It is a question at hand.
Do you feel that God communicates his will through mediums?

no, but i note that there is no passage saying that one cannot speak with the dead; only that one should not.

regardless of that, i might be seeing your point; but then why include this passage in Scripture?

 

[bbyrd009]

Saul was not handed over to the philistines. He was handed over to an Amalekite who killed and stripped him of his things.

well please, seems like we are splitting hairs pointlessly now? The Philistines had already "gravely wounded" Saul. If there is some significance to Saul's not actually dying by the hand of a Philistine per se i am also missing that. Samuel's "prediction" seems accurate enough to me.

 

[bbyrd009]

How about Noah had some kinds of birds in his possession and of those birds it was directed that he take seven pairs. Make more sense now?

quite possible, i am even inclined to agree, but surely you see that even some Religion PhDs will disagree with you, on whatever grounds.

 

[KBCid]

no, but i note that there is no passage saying that one cannot speak with the dead; only that one should not. regardless of that, i might be seeing your point; but then why include this passage in Scripture?

really?
Job 7:8 The eye of him that hath seen me shall see me no more: thine eyes are upon me, and I am not.
9 As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.
10 He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.

Eccl 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

One can certainly speak with the spirits but it is man alone who considers these the spirits of their dead;
2 Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Acts 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

 

[bbyrd009]

really?

yes, unless you have some valid refute that these--the witch of En-dor, or the Oracles--are not real in some way.