The creation of Eve

[bbyrd009]

Do you not agree that I followed the direction given from romans?

no, i do not agree

I tried to end our interaction.

by trying to get the last word, yes. Surely you see that all you would have to do to end the interaction would be to stop replying.

 

[bbyrd009]

Lol. so it no big deal to call someone satan but it is not right to tell someone they are wrong and give them the scripture to back it.

ha no, i am just an idiot where that first part is concerned, and would not care; but i guess most people would. It is in part 2 that perhaps more open-mindedness is called for. After all, we mostly discuss mysteries, that have no definite answer anyway.

There is even a Scripture for this, "the first to tell their story in court seems correct, until another comes and examines him." Notice that no resolution is provided in the passage, likely meaning that it is the phenomenon of believing the first thing we hear that should be considered. I mean, do you honestly think believing that Christ is Spirit is somehow dishonoring Christ, or salvational?

 

[bbyrd009]

If the one mediator between man and God is a spirit then how does one rationalize the mediator being called a man? and no less than that man being Jesus Christ? You must admit that the scripture in multiple places points directly to Christ being a man and being our advocate with the father.

yes, and It provides other reflections that seem to say something else, too. I don't want to get caught up in picking a side here, as imo you both make good points.

 

[KBCid]

well, just guessing here, you could examine this "clearly telling someone" anything, iow the position you put yourself in there, or you could even just go "ignore" if you wanted, how can one persist alone, without a reply?

unfortunately they do just keep on posting and then assert you are some evil person or some such nonsense since you aren't answering them.

I am assuming here that telling someone they are not a Christian would be taken as an insult, which i don't entirely get myself, as it seems to me that the first thing one should do if they seek Christ is to run from Christianity per se, but regardless.

Now that is funny in a very true way. I have found that almost every major sect of Christianity has some pearl of truth and then a pile of untruth mixed with it so, you may have the ultimate answer in that statement.

You have stated your position @ "Jesus still embodied" from Scripture pretty clearly now, and while i personally do not agree with it, and suspect it even encourages Nehushtan worship, you obviously believe the pov is Scriptural, so what more is there to say? It might be at that point that we actually dishonor Christ the most!

You say that "I" have stated my position that Jesus is still embodied... does it really just appear to you that it is just a position i'm taking? Here I must ask you what does the scripture say?.... What does the words of Christ say? I did not simply say this is my beliefs and my position must be right did I? I gathered the scripture itself so that it may be read;

Lukw 24:36And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 37But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Does it appear that Christ's words are being taken out of context?
I cannot see how there is any way to read those scriptures and come to any other conclusion than that Christ rose from the dead in a flesh and bone body and let all the followers see him and feel him and even stick their fingers into the crucifixion opens of his body.

 

[bbyrd009]

unfortunately they do just keep on posting and then assert you are some evil person or some such nonsense since you aren't answering them.

then their heart is revealed, right.

 

[bbyrd009]

Does it appear that Christ's words are being taken out of context? I cannot see how there is any way to read those scriptures and come to any other conclusion than that Christ rose from the dead in a flesh and bone body and let all the followers see him and feel him and even stick their fingers into the crucifixion opens of his body.

well, to that i would say that other lessons might be derived from that passage, and your position is possibly one of attempting to put yourself in that past moment, and maybe ignoring that Jesus was "transfigured" after that, to get us to where we are now. So yes, the context has changed since then, and there is other Scripture that could be taken into account. But it is just a perspective; i was not there, either.

 

[ScottA]

You say that "I" have stated my position that Jesus is still embodied... does it really just appear to you that it is just a position i'm taking? Here I must ask you what does the scripture say?.... What does the words of Christ say? I did not simply say this is my beliefs and my position must be right did I? I gathered the scripture itself so that it may be read;

Lukw 24:36And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 37But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Does it appear that Christ's words are being taken out of context?
I cannot see how there is any way to read those scriptures and come to any other conclusion than that Christ rose from the dead in a flesh and bone body and let all the followers see him and feel him and even stick their fingers into the crucifixion opens of his body.

This is evidence that "Christ came in the flesh", and that alone. But we also have evidence of His transfiguration, His ascension, and His going "to the Father" whom is [only] spirit. He is the same, but the context is indeed different.

 

[bbyrd009]

When Jesus was embodied, there was no Body of Christ then either, such as we understand--or at least verbally repeat--it now.

 

[Helen]

So do we believe that Christ is spirit only or do we take Christ's word for it that a spirit is not just a spirit if they possess flesh and bone?

1) It not a beach to die upon...so I don't think that it really is critical to our faith.
2) This is why I do not believe that anyone except Jesus Christ is "in Heaven" yet. Jesus is the only spiritual man in Heaven. The only resurrected glorified man. The rest of those Christians who have died...grandparents etc....I believe are in Beautiful Garden...
Paradise.

That's what I believe,.... until someone comes along and shows me something greatly better.

 

[KBCid]

well, to that i would say that other lessons might be derived from that passage, and your position is possibly one of attempting to put yourself in that past moment, and maybe ignoring that Jesus was "transfigured" after that, to get us to where we are now. So yes, the context has changed since then, and there is other Scripture that could be taken into account. But it is just a perspective; i was not there, either.

What other lesson can be ascribed to the doubting Thomas scenario? The absolute entirety of Christ appearing to Thomas was to prove to him that he was in his body and was resurrected.

You assert that Christ was transfigured after that. Ok what was different about him from when he appeared to Thomas?
Did he change into a spirit? if so what exactly does a spirit look like?

Matt 17:2There He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.

So let's see "his face shone like the sun". By this are we to presume that a real body cannot emit light? or that only a spirit can do this?

Ex 34:29And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone.

Moses didn't have any problem with his face emitting light from his body, right?
Next we have Christs clothes.... they too became white as the light. Do you think that the clothing on Christ's body was replaced with light? Note that the text doesn't say that. It specifically states that it (the clothes) became as white as the light. If we say that the white rose became as red as dawn do we assume that the flower went away or do we assume that there was a change to the physical coloring in the physical flower.

 

[KBCid]

When Jesus was embodied, there was no Body of Christ then either, such as we understand--or at least verbally repeat--it now.

Really? What then were the apostles?
What about all those who came to him during his ministry upon the earth?
Where does it state that the body of Christ began after he ascended?
In order to make assertions you need to have a foundation in scripture.

 

[bbyrd009]

or do we assume that there was a change to the physical coloring in the physical flower.

my guess is that a spiritual message is being taken too literally with most of these tbh, but at the same time i can see why this belief in a physical ascension to "heaven" persists.

 

[bbyrd009]

Where does it state that the body of Christ began after he ascended?

i would not try to pin it down to a moment, but obviously as long as Jesus was corporately on the scene the Body of Christ as we understand it, being "us," could not manifest. Likely accomplished in "if I go, I will send a Comforter," right in there, right

 

[bbyrd009]

In order to make assertions you need to have a foundation in scripture.

you cannot make a single assertion from Scripture though lol. Try.

 

[ScottA]

1) It not a beach to die upon...so I don't think that it really is critical to our faith.
2) This is why I do not believe that anyone except Jesus Christ is "in Heaven" yet. Jesus is the only spiritual man in Heaven. The only resurrected glorified man. The rest of those Christians who have died...grandparents etc....I believe are in Beautiful Garden...
Paradise.

That's what I believe,.... until someone comes along and shows me something greatly better.

Your faith brings a smile to my face - God bless you!

As for that "something greatly better." We have been told that "we see [only] in part", but also that Christ would "send us another Helper, the Holy Spirit, to lead us into all truth." It is by the latter that I answer you:

It is Time that is seen "in part", for it is broken down in "times." But in "all truth", Time is not a part of the heavenly equation. In other words, we don't actually "wait upon the Lord", nor does He wait upon us, nor is that moment when we "are absent from the body, to be present with the Lord" actually different for us than it is for "Christians who have died...grandparents, etc.." Time only exists in our worldly experience - but the kingdom "is not of this world."

Thus, it is correct to say, "It is finished", and that Christ comes "quickly", or that all things come in "the day of the Lord" - which from His perspective is not a "day", but "the twinkling of an eye."

Incidentally, that means...that you and your "grandparents" arrive...together.

 

[bbyrd009]

In order to make assertions you need to have a foundation in scripture.

hello?

 

[KBCid]

you cannot make a single assertion from Scripture though lol. Try.

Easy enough I would say. I can even make a couple of them;
Matthew 22:37 ...Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
39 Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[KBCid]

i would not try to pin it down to a moment, but obviously as long as Jesus was corporately on the scene the Body of Christ as we understand it, being "us," could not manifest. Likely accomplished in "if I go, I will send a Comforter," right in there, right

The assumption being that he cannot spiritually inhabit his own body and be within us at the same time?

 

[Helen]

The assumption being that he cannot spiritually inhabit his own body and be within us at the same time?

I don't feel that is an assumption. While Jesus was here, He had not been glorified, therefore we was not the head of His body....He had not yet died, or said "It is finished."
On His resurrection He came into His glory once again. ( that which he had laid aside for 33 years) He was then the Head, and the Church His Body.

But, I came back to this part of the conversation late...maybe that is not what you are saying here

 

[KBCid]

1) It not a beach to die upon...so I don't think that it really is critical to our faith.
2) This is why I do not believe that anyone except Jesus Christ is "in Heaven" yet. Jesus is the only spiritual man in Heaven. The only resurrected glorified man. The rest of those Christians who have died...grandparents etc....I believe are in Beautiful Garden...
Paradise. That's what I believe,.... until someone comes along and shows me something greatly better.

According to scripture if we do not believe he is a resurrected man then we are anti-Christian since the entirety of his message revolves around his sacrifice in the flesh for our sins and the subsequent reanimation of his corpse so that he can be the one "man" who is the mediator between us and God so, If God and Christ view people that don't believe he is a resurrected man as against their message then I would say that would be quite critical to our future.
Who is in heaven is not the question at hand but, you are correct.

John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Plain and simple Christ died for our sins and resurrected his body which he then showed to his flock and when he ascended it was also written;

Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: 3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

As it is written Christ gave "infallible proofs" that he was resurrected and was not just a spirit. The angels even stated the same way they saw him leave would be how he would return. A spirit has no body to see with your eyes. Christ was visible to the eyes and stated plainly that spirit hath not flesh and bone. Like us Christ is a spirit inhabiting a physical body so that he can be the man who is an advocate to the Father for us.